"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's February 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Can't believe it ! I formulated a message and it's disappeared ! got to go soon. The gist was no free taster till beginning of May. Counsellor busy [ good?] . the telephone call bought up a load of stuff about feeling a fraud - not sounding 'abused' enough etc. And I'm not going to lay it on in order to get help. So we'll see how we get on face to face. I need someone fairly active who seems to validate me ?

Also have exited family - clique donated Whatsapp group. So definitely LC now [ they haven't noticed - or just not saying.Who knows?] .This is moving fast - but seems forever.

dominated not donated

I need to come on here more often.. but I just keep getting distracted. It's seemed for quite a while now that my days have just rolled into one.

Mrdarcyfanclub, I always seem to get dragged into arguments. And then I'm supposed to show this unbreakable loyalty towards my family - even though they've never shown it to me.

I'll probably still go, but it'll cause a lot of ill feelings, I think.

toomuchtooold, yep this is the same brother whose son I babysit every weekend.

What you say makes a lot of sense, and nearly all of it is true. I wish it wasn't. I wish things had been a lot different. I just keep thinking "this is it. This is my life". I'm scared that this is all my life is ever going to be.

makealist1 - unfortunately for me the prospect of putting the phone down/ignoring calls isn't possible. I live with my mum. Some days it's easy to cope with her - as in I'm able to cope with what she throws at me because it's pretty mild.. other times it's unbearable, but with no escape. The funny thing is neither of my siblings get the same treatment.

I don't really have family - beside my mum, brother, sister, my brother's ex, a niece and two nephews. I'm pretty much NC with my dad. I don't know my dad's family - the last time I saw most of them was about 2 decades ago when I was 5, or younger. And my mum's family - my aunt and her children - like to keep to themselves. Knowing that on a frequent basis I only have contact with 3 adults makes me feel quite sad actually. That's the extent of my isolation. Limited/no friends and a family, where most of them, enjoy ruining every last bit of happiness I might have.

Hey, I hope it's ok to post here for some opinions. I went to see a hypnotherapist today for some help with anxiety and talked to her about my family situation which is complicated. Without going into a lot of detail, I genuinely believe my parents did their best and love(d) me a lot but they also made a lot of mistakes that kind of did a number on my confidence. They were overly strict and controlling, my dad had an anger problem and could be very unpredictable, at times he would say really really awful things to me, he was often pretty scary and threatening with his body language and also hit me (hard) on one occasion, on another occasion he trashed a lot of the stuff in my room. Not nice at all. He has his own problems and tended to get aggressive like that when he'd had a few glasses of wine. My mum was a bit of an enabler. I'm not making excuses for any of that that but I also don't want to demonise him because I know he has a lot of good qualities and I just think he is a deeply unhappy man who needs extensive therapy tbh. So that's the background.

About a year ago things kind of came to a head and we fell out because he had a huge, nasty go at me in front of my DS and I've put distance between us but I don't want to be permanently no contact. I just want help to move past it, feel better about myself and have better boundaries and I think I've made huge progress with that. Unlike some people on here (and I'm not criticising anyone at all) I don't see if as a totally black and white thing and I would like to have some kind of relationship with my parents. I know I'll never get close to them in the way I used to be and I'm happy with that but I think we can find a way to still be in each other's lives.

To go back to the hypnotherapy again, I felt during the appointment that she was almost a bit dismissive of some of what I said. I struggle with some things my dad said to me and shared one thing in particular that even though it was years ago I haven't been able to forget or completely let go of, and she kind of talked about how they were of a different generation with different values and how people say things they don't mean at times, that he was projecting a lot of his own stress and it probably wasn't 'about me'. I understand m that and it was helpful in a way but I also felt she didn't acknowledge how wrong that was of him as a parent and how damaging it was actually.

We also talked a lot about boundaries and coping strategies moving forward, how to deal with the inner critic etc. It was only one session and I have another one booked and will probably go several times but I'm in two minds about whether she really 'gets' it and if I should persevere with her or not?

Any thoughts? Thank you.

I've seen these threads many times but this is the first time I've had the courage to open it, let alone post.

I'm 27 and have recently been realising that my mother was pretty terrible. Shouty, aggressive, short-tempered, selfish, unreasonable.

She rarely laid a finger on us but some of the things she did are baffling - like being so annoyed at my brother's messy bedroom that she picked up my Barbie car and threw it against the wall, smashing it to bits. She huffed and moaned and shouted at us from the moment she set foot in the house. We dreaded her coming home. She worked weekends until I was a teenager and I adored the days that she was offered a backshift on top of her early, so she wouldn't be home until about 9pm. A whole day with just Dad was a luxury.

She made comments about my clothes/body/weight and took me to a diet club when I was 12. She made me keep a food diary and she policed my food intake to the point that she wouldn't even allow me a piece of fruit if she didn't think I should be hungry at that time The result was me hiding food, bingeing in secret and wearing a size 22 by the time I left school.

I started self-harming when I was 14. She found out when I was 16 and had been prescribed antidepressants (which she found by looking through my things). She made an appointment with the GP, drove up there by herself and told him that he was wrong for giving me the prescription because I brought the depression upon myself by "being a goth" and "wallowing". She suggested that I enjoyed the attention that it brought and that I was to "just stop it".

I'm an anxious wreck about life in general. I struggle hourly with food issues, I have no self confidence (personally or professionally) and I've recently found myself seeking out approval from other people, either colleagues, friends or my husband. As a teen I used to write a lot of fanfiction and looking back, I think I did that because of the validation the anonymous reviews gave me.

I'm considering pursuing an adult Aspergers diagnosis as I appear to be a textbook case (confirmed by a woman I spoke to at Autism Network Scotland), which I stupidly raised with Mum. She took it as a personal slight and said that if anyone was autistic, it was my little brother yet the test came back negative for him so I must be fine too

Weirdly, I do love my mum despite everything but it's taken a lot and I don't have a maternal love for her, we're just like good friends. We have a great laugh and we go out for food or drinks but as soon as she sticks her "mum" oar in, my hackles go up. She has drunkenly apologised for "a list of mistakes as long as my arm" but I doubt she'll ever know how deep it goes.

Sorry... I don't suppose this makes much sense, it's just a stream of thoughts as they come to me. It's cathartic to put it out there though.

undeuxtrois does it maybe depend what you're looking for out of the sessions? If you're looking for very practical strategies to cope with specific issues, then maybe she thinks that giving you that insight into your father's reactions will allow you to distance yourself from it and will help you understand him and deal with him in the here and now. Whereas if you're looking to explore your childhood in some detail and maybe try to mourn some of what happened, reconnect to your inner child sort of thing, it would be more important to have someone sympathise and connect with you as you would have felt as a child?
A further thought, and I might be talking rubbish here it's just a thought, but is it possible you went to hypnotherapy looking for practical solutions and now that you're there you feel more like you would like to explore your childhood more, and that's why it's jibing for you?

Do you feel like you could raise it with her? If you do, and she takes the comment on board, it will probably lead to a closer bond between you and the therapy will go better. But not everyone responds well to constructive criticism, not even therapists .

amused god I did not know you were one of us! Great username- I saw you on another thread the other day and it made me laugh.

As a teen I used to write a lot of fanfiction and looking back, I think I did that because of the validation the anonymous reviews gave me.

Christ I do that now and I am a 40 year old woman . I think there's a lot of people, in fact I wonder if it's the majority of people, who create art (and fanfiction is art) who do it because it's a way to connect to other people without the difficulties of one to one human relationships. I think of it as like the saving grace of an abusive childhood, that you can channel all that love into something beautiful and unique.

Are you in therapy or anything? Have you done any reading about this stuff? Any of the books in the OP, but especially "Toxic Parents", are a good place to start. Also Pete Walker's book on complex PTSD might ring some bells for you.

She took it as a personal slight and said that if anyone was autistic, it was my little brother yet the test came back negative for him so I must be fine too

Oh god, the layers of dysfunction. Is this the same little brother whose room was so messy that your Barbie car got smashed? Sounds like he might have been the golden child and you the scapegoat. Scapegoats aren't really allowed to have things wrong with them IME, it''s far too much hard work, and they seem to see it as an attempt to steal the limelight.

Are you seeing a therapist or psychiatrist, either for the Asperger's diagnosis or for the anxiety? It sounds like you need someone to be teasing out those issues for you.

Oh god and also Jannerite I am really happy to hear you're still going to go and visit your SIL. Small steps, you know. I think it will be the struggle of your life to get out of there, I know a little bit what you're going through, but I'm telling you once you get out the relief will be incredible. You'll wonder how you coped for so long.

Ooh, thanks toomuchtooold, I feel all MN Famous

you can channel all that love into something beautiful and unique.

Yeah, if gay porn featuring Harry Potter characters can be considered beautiful and unique

I'm not in therapy. I was referred in 2009 for my eating disorder but I changed jobs shortly after and the manager was much more inflexible about appointments so it fizzled out. I'm seriously considering going back to the GP about it though because I'm a bit of a wreck, to be honest.

Yes, the same little brother. He is my only sibling, six years apart and admittedly was a real handful. He underwent a battery of tests for autism, ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, etc but every specialist they spoke to said that he was very bright and not being challenged enough. He'll be 21 in June and he is really happy in his life. He and I have a silent bond, like we survived something together.

Bumping.
Love to all x

Hi everyone, sorry to gategrash, haven't posted here for a good few years as we finally went non contact in 2012ish (dh's parents and inlaws)

My dh's mother is very ill in hospital with a colapsed hernia and suspected cancer on her breast. My dh has been in two minds whether to go and visit her or not.
He has finally come to the decision he will indeed go and see her, which i feel is for the best because if anything happens to her the guilt he will feel for the rest of his life woulf just eat him up.

Problem being with the visit as that his abusive father is there most of the day (at the hospital) and according to sil he is pretty much wound up by the fact dh is still yet to visit. This doesn't sit well with me at all, i don't want dh to be put in a corner like a scared child just for visiting his mother.

How do i support him during this process but not have my children involved (2 of them don't know them, and 3 haven't seen them since 2012). However ill she may be i don't want my dh guiltripped in re opening contact with my children. She is verbally/mentally abusive and fil is physically abusive. Hence no contact.

Dh never saught councilling for his ordeals in childhood and still he goes through bouts of depression and what can only be described as flashbacks especially on their birthdays and christmas. I'm assuming this may open up some old problems in our relationship however much i see sense he must go and visit i dread his behaviours afterwards and the way he used to treat me after seeing them. No violence, just sullen moodeness, crankiness, swearing and a general disrespect for me and his children. It's almost like a fog takes over him, it's like their personalities rub off on him.

However much i dispise his family, i still feel guilt too, obviously no where near as much as him and the years of non contact have helped our relationship and his recovery leaps and bounds but now i face the uncertainty of a dh with lots of pressure put on him again and i'm unsure what to do if he won't seek therapy.

Thankyou, any advice would be much appriecated x

Hi everyone waves

I've been reading the Stately Homes threads for a good week or so and they've really given me some fantastic insight and validation into my childhood, and adulthood. I wondered if you could take a look at my story and see if you think that family is dysfunctional and that my mum is a narcissist. I suppose i'm needing validation from people who have been through the same or similar because i've never seem to have got it.

My story...

I'm the only child, my dad was engaged to someone else when he met my mum and had a fling, they were about 18 years old and mum got pregnant. Having come from a strict catholic family mum and dad got married and I was born. This was early 70's.

My memories up to around 7 years old are quite nice but when I was 7 we moved 50 miles away and that's when things kind of changed. I felt very much in the way, and a nuisance, from being 7 onwards. From the outside I had everything, I was taken to events and whatnot by my dad at weekends and my mum took me shopping once a week to buy me new clothes but other stuff was missing and things were said. My mum wasn't so keen on my dad, she would constantly bitch about him to me and my dad was a huge grump that wanted to be left alone. I was opening told that I was responsible for them having to be together. My dad was quite lazy and my mum was a clean freak so they clashed real bad. My mum was, and still is, a martyr.

Some specifics... There was no interest in my schooling yet I was expected to appear home with top marks, when I didn't I was met with disapproval. I was constantly in trouble, my dad hit the roof when I once picked the label off the imperial leather soap and my mum used to make me scrub the soles of my white school socks because they were dirty. They bought me a guitar but I didn't know how to play it so it got taken off me. They bought me a commodore 64 but I had to sit and watch my dad play it in case I broke it. I wasn't allowed an opinion about anything and was constantly shot down. My grandparents once asked me if we'd been to church and I answered honestly that no we hadn't, this led to a huge row and my grandparents and my parents didn't speak for years, it was made to be my fault for 'opening my big mouth'. My mum also likes to use money as a weapon, when I was a teen my mum threatened to cut me out of her will if I remained friends with a boy that I liked to knock about with. Even now it's like she 'gets off' when I mention i'm skint or can't afford anything, and thinking about it she sets up these conversations, I never intend to tell her.

When I left home, I did a bit of a flit and moved into a bedsit. My mum cried about what it would look like to her sisters but within a fortnight they'd sold the family car and bought a two seater sports car and said they'd done it so I wouldn't be able to ask for lifts. They also redecorated my bedroom and turned it into a knitting room. I didn't really see them for a few years, at Christmas they would go on holiday for two weeks so there was no big family reunion or make up chance.

Looking back I went from one bad relationship to another, although I didn't realise i'd done that until recently. I had a child to an abusive partner out of wedlock and my mum was disappointed, again. When I left him I went to stay with my parents for a while but I had to stay in the box room/storage, not my old bedroom, they helped me financially made me feel worthless rather than rescued. I stayed for about 6 months. Some specifics about my adulthood. A few years later I had an ectopic pregnancy when I was around 28 years old, my mum made me feel dirty as she was only concerned with who I had slept with. It wasn't common knowledge about my pregnancy and my hospital stay was passed off as being a women's thing. My mum looked after my son whilst I was in hospital, I was scared, upset and had no emotional support, yet when she visited me after my operation she gave me a till receipt of the food she'd bought for my son's meals. No love or anything, I crumbled but felt I had to be grateful.

My son is now in his early 20's, neither parent make an effort to see him, haven't done since he went to uni, and he doesn't seem bothered about them. At Christmas, we had dinner at ours and gran served the meat, he said that his Gran barely gave him any. He seemed really quite upset about this and i'm wondering if she did it on purpose and he got that look, because he normally has no problem just asking for something.

Current: I used to see my parents twice a week, it's now only once because I increased my hours at work to earn more cash. My mum cried when I told her I was increasing my hours and I felt rotten but after years of living from pay slip to pay slip I wanted us to feel more financially secure but to my mum it was all about her. She constantly says really weird things, e.g. out of the blue one day she was looking all dejected and when I asked what was wrong she cried that 'in all her life...' no one had ever said that they liked her shoes. Another time she started to talk about something her sister did when she was young, she'd told a tale on her, and I kinda laughed ... I got my head bitten off with a 'It's not funny!'
She also says things like she's feeling bullied when my dad wants to buy something that she doesn't. Also, when I did change my hours she immediately reconnected with her noice that she hadn't seen for about 20 years and went on about how they had such a lovely time and meal and how they have so much in common.

I used to think that my mum was childish, my OH (been tother 12 years) just thinks she's really weird, but after reading up on stuff i'm seeing a more sinister side to her. Every time I spend time with her i'm seeing that it's all about her and how she feels, her need to be in control, her need to punish those that don't do things she wants and her need to be right, about everything.

I know this is a long post but just one more thing and this is what's pushed me. Last week I met my parents for a coffee and dad mentioned how the traffic had been quiet. I remarked that it was probably because the schools were on half term. Mum immediately said 'They're not!' I said some must be because some of the mothers from work are off this week with their kids. Mum fell quiet and I got that face. But later, when I was driving her home she constantly pointed out kids wearing uniforms, a bus that had school kids on and to ram it home a little bit more that she was right she told me some half cocked tale about something lame that had happened the day before and slotted in about seeing a kid in their uniform.

Am I seeing things that arn't there? Have I got something wrong with me that I just can't get past my childhood and i'm bearing grudges? There's a billion more things going through my head but that's a taster and I suppose I need to know if i'm going down the right route or if I should just push these feelings away and let go.

Many thanks for reading x

amusedbush
if gay porn featuring Harry Potter characters can be considered beautiful and unique
Art's beyond morality

pumpkin that's a really difficult situation. I really feel for you guys who get an abusive set of inlaws, because you've got far less control than we do as the actual kids. I feel quite bad for my OH who had to put up to my mother for years and years until I woke up.
Do you think your DH would consider going to counselling now? Or is he not keen on the idea?
Regarding your DCs, I wonder if it would help to talk it over with him before he goes to see his mother? If he's agreed his red lines with you before he goes, it might be easier to stick to them. If I were you though I would stand firm and not let your kids near the inlaws, even if your DH turns round and says they want contact - it's worth an argument.

Hi treacle!
There's tons of stuff in there. There's the parentification, your mother complaining about your father to you, the absolutely unacceptable fact of you being told you weren't wanted. There's neglect, the neglect of your education. The stuff with the C64 and the guitar is just nasty - I mean, it's horrible, it's uncaring at best and cruel at worst. The white socks thing is a sort of double bind - there's this unspoken assumption that you can get the socks clean when actually you probably can't, and so you end up being doubly confused and guilty because you have to confess to not getting them clean as well as getting them dirty in the first place.

And it didn't improve, did it? There's so much stuff in there that I'd class under what I said about my mother to my DH: if you beat the crap out of your kids, if you starve them, or throw them out the house, you get in trouble - but if you're just bloody horrible to them, there's really nothing anyone can do.

after reading up on stuff i'm seeing a more sinister side to her
Have you looked up covert narcissism? That's what occurs to me. That thing with the uniforms... they can't take being wrong. The pettiness of it just underlines how messed up it is. Ordinary people fight over the big stuff, but can let these little things go.

Have I got something wrong with me that I just can't get past my childhood and i'm bearing grudges?

IDK if you'll relate to this but I used to feel as though dealing with my crazy mother was one of those onerous but necessary jobs of being an adult, like taking the bins out and getting your 5 a day. I felt irresponsible and attention-seeking whenever I thought of her as abusive, or thought about going no contact. I still do feel like that sometimes. Sometimes I tell DH or my therapist stuff that happened and I feel like I'm making it up. But IMO that's to do with the number they do on us as kids - they tell you their punishments are fair and you have to suck it up, and you take that in on a really fundamental level, because we're programmed to trust our parents.
And I would also refer you to what it says in the OP:

^Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.^

So for what it's worth - yes, I think you are going down the right route.

@toomuch

Thank you so much for replying. I was at work when I first realised you'd responded and got butterflies then huge throat gulps when I read what you'd wrote.

I wasn't aware there were different types of narcissism but did wonder if my mum was some sort of low functioning narcissistic. I don't know even know how to explain why I thought that, other than perhaps I was minimising by thinking that because she didn't have full blown rages that she wasn't a full time one or maybe she's just not very good at being one. But then again, maybe she's been so clever at it she's rarely needed to. Yikes!

I read the link on shy/coverts and she does seem to fit. The envy and the way she reacts was particularly awakening, as was the desire to be centre of attention and receive accolades yet not possessing the skills to achieve them yet resents, tried to prevent and puts down those that do.

In the 70's and 80's mum used to offer to make celebration cakes for any big family event (not for free, she wanted paying), they were works of art and they took her months to create but one time a great aunt of mine said something about the cost one of her cakes, a huge drama followed where she refused to ever ever make a cake again, and she never ever did, citing that great aunt had 'criticised' her cake and she gave her heart and soul but couldn't possibly ever please such awkward people. She still brings this up, 30 + years later.

Her attention seeking these days is subtle but weird (I think it is anyway). Example: She wanted to contribute a dessert for Christmas dinner so she made a Queen of Puddings, it didn't go exactly to plan in her opinion but it looked and tasted fine to all of us. She'd barely paid attention all day until her dessert came out and then she sat up straight and it was as though she was scanning deep inside people's eyeballs looking for reactions, her concentration was so great it was just really really odd. Then we heard about how difficult it was for her to make, how she felt when it all went wrong, how it should have been so much better. It was just a nice pudding on a relaxed Christmas day!

As for the envy, this is quite awful and upsets me to think about. My cousin, my mum's sister's only son, killed himself 12 years ago. No-one really know why but it's thought that he had debts. At first mum used to go on about if only he had gone to her for help she could have saved him, but we're not a particular close family and he'd not seen her for about 8 years so I thought that was a strange comment to make. Then, after a few years my aunt and uncle started to go on long cruises, like those 12 weekers, mum was green with envy about it and used to almost spit that it's alright for them, they haven't got any ties. Now, most things I let go but this I did pull her up on because it's just so wrong of thought. My mum didn't have any ties herself at this point, I was totally independent and she wasn't tied to working. I asked her if she'd rather have their life, no children but pots of time and cash or her life with me and grandson, she just pursed her lips and I had my answer.

I think you're spot on about the parentification, I didn't know it had a name. This is what she has always done and what she still does now. She likes to get me on my own to tell me how unhappy she is with dad, he's always done something wrong (in her eyes). I have always tried to be the mediator, sometimes she appears to listen but mostly she doesn't like what I say, am I right in thinking that she's not really interested in what I say but that this is her way of getting attention from me? At the moment she wants to move house again but dad doesn't want to. When I got to the bottom of why she wants to move it's because when they moved into this one dad bought some display cabinets that she doesn't like. I suggested that rather than spend £10,000 on moving costs she just tells dad that she doesn't like them and get some new ones but she doesn't want to do that, she'd rather move into somewhere that these cabinets won't fit. Dad doesn't want to move, he's only just done this house up, but mum says she'll make sure she gets her own way and i've no doubt that she will.

I came to the conclusion a long time ago that my mum didn't/doesn't love me and there's some comfort in thinking that maybe she didn't have the tools to love me rather than she didn't want to but I suspect that she's not totally hapless or helpless, what she said about getting her own way about the house confirmed that she's not above manipulation.

I'd just really like to add...

After spending quite a few months reading Mumsnet (AIBU mostly) and a good week or so reading the Stately Homes threads it's given me an epiphany, or rather lots of them.

Bear in mind that I don't discuss any of what i've read or think, even in passing, but last night for the first time in a long long long time, maybe even ever, when my OH of 12 years told me that he loved me, I actually felt it and believed it.

I feel like i'm becoming a real person.

Hello

Can I ask your advice? I had to go no contact with my parents/taking a permanent break (as far as they are concerned) due to unbearable and persistent narcissistic style behaviours of my DF.

I am currently undergoing cancer treatment and finding life tough but so much more bearable for his absence from it. In fact generally I'm doing ok and my prognoses is good. DH is doing fine. DS doing brilliantly. We made the only and the right decision.

We were on an even keel hurrah!

Then a parcel arrives for DS for Easter out of the blue.

DH can't bear having it in the house, neither can I. Last time they sent flowers we put them in the bin, they sent me a christmas present which went to the charity shop, I did pass on DS's christmas present but it just seems to open the old wounds and ties him in knots for no benefit. I feel awful about the waste and that the upset is all ours while they blithely will be telling all and sundry that they send lovely presents and hear nothing from their ungrateful daughter.

Any contact from them pushes me/us into these spirals of 'why do they treat up this way/revisiting old hurts etc.' DH looks visibly shaken by the unexpected parcel. I don't want to be dramatic but honestly we are badly scarred by their behaviour.

I want to tell them not to send things / or to send them straight back until they get the message but that's just providing the next drama isn't it?

If you are in a similar position what do you do?

TIA

I'm in this position. In the past I've taken them to charity shops. Then been confronted by my hysterical mother accusing me of binning them. I think I'll be returning them in future, without comment. It's so hard though, because if your father is anything like my mother, they take any 'in' you may accidentally offer as an open invitation for more madness and drama. Which drags us right back in where they want us. Argh! How can these people do this to their own children, and how can I avoid turning into one of them?

Hi 89 If you have any level of self awareness you will not turn into them :)

Honestly, I am so pissed off, I have an exam to sit tomorrow, I was cramming for it in peace and now all I want to do is cry and throw myself on the bed. I miss .... what ...... oh I don't know. My peace of mind.

It's thing for your kids that you plan to return?
What do you/will you say to the children if anything please?

Wishing everyone the best Easter weekend possible, working or on holiday. Are any of you up to much?

I'm trying to keep up with posts, I just thought I'd quickly post this whilst it's on my mind as my brain is like a sieve.

A few weeks back my husband decided even though I was broke, even though he's far from broke, he wasn't going to help. I needed certain bits, I've been getting benefit stuff sorted. I ended up asking my Brother if he could ask if a Parent or Grandparent could loan me a bit of money, a week maximum, I would pay back double.

I got some convoluted answer. Essentially no way in hell, even though we figured they haven't Lent me anything in over a decade. So was pretty miffed, but my brother was a sweetheart and helped.

When my Brother wasn't working, he was subsidised by many family members, I thought ok that's in the past, maybe they can't afford it. Good old justification. I asked if my Brother could grab me something I need and send it to me, he said I'll need the money as I borrowed £200 from our Father, so he was really broke. Which is fair enough had no problems with that.

Just the fact when I asked for legitimate reasons, I had to get my Brother to mediate as there was no reply. Whilst it was a BFN for me, my Brother asks and is given way more than I asked for. It really is a farce. I'm not physically upset, just downcast that one rule applies to my siblings and another to me. I know my Sister got help before Christmas as she had an unexpected car bill.

To me it proves what they really think and feel. I would never decline one child, then spoil the other, everything is equal. It honestly messes with your mind a bit. The fact that my Sisters and Brother get whatever they want, there's seldom a rush, but if I am desperate for anything it's a no.

I bought a book about dealing with negative feelings, but part of me thinks they're better off being kept locked away, over revisiting stuff from the past. I can't really see what it would or could change.

Have any of you decided to try and tackle problems from the past to see if you can get a positive outcome? Did you find it hard at all? Did it open up a chest of stuff you chose to forget for a reason.

I truly hope you all have a great Easter. Thank you for your support so far, I promise I'll get into a habit of jotting things down, as I'll remember one name, the rest go out of the window.

I'm so sure I have the toxic parents book, just don't know where.

Hi FairyT

It smacks of unfairness when there's no consistency and the imbalance of the scales of justice can leave you feeling mentally off balance.

Have any of you decided to try and tackle problems from the past to see if you can get a positive outcome? Did you find it hard at all? Did it open up a chest of stuff you chose to forget for a reason.

Yes! Although I started this before I was aware that my family was dysfunctional and before my eyes had been opened.

Two things. The first is that my family have always used money as a weapon or to yield power, my mother did it and so did my female grandparents. Secondly, amongst the negative labels I have been given being rubbish with money was one of them, my dad and my male grandparents were also labelled with this.

Before I was aware of the psychology behind labelling and the extent of the control money gave and so on I was recommended a budgeting tool by a friend of mine that used to be an accountant and was awesome with money. It's called YNAB (It stands for You Need A Budget). At first I was wary because I simply thought I was crap with cash but I tried it because my friend said how amazing it was. I signed up for the 30+ day free trial thinking yeah yeah, unless I win the lottery i'll never feel financially free but within a week I could see where id been going wrong. The tool is personal to each individual and will highlight different things but for me it highlighted that I always, no matter what I had, spent to zero each month.

Within a few months i'd budgeted my way out of being overdrawn (I'd been overdrawn for donkeys years), i'd made changes left right and centre to how I thought about and how I spent money and 12 months on I feel like my financial future has light.

I don't know about you but even though i'm in my 40's I still felt very much a child, I was still carrying around those negative child labels that I had been given, I was never given the encouragement or tools to change and I think, for me, it's part of the 'I told you so' mindset. I always said you were X and I was right mentality.

I don't have siblings like what you have so I have never had that feeling of one being helped but me not but I did have inconsistency in other ways, as well as reward V punishment. I suppose what i'm trying to say is that by parenting myself, by teaching myself that I am not a wastrel that I have matured both financially and mentally. I didn't do it to prove anyone wrong, I did it for my own sanity.

I'm new to this, i'm still opening my eyes and i'm not an expert so I might be talking rubbish here but it makes sense to me. Can you identify with any of that? Is it possible that the negative labels you were given from being young have been taken into adulthood too? For me it smacks of that saying 'Give a dog a bad name and he is as good as destroyed'.

Treacle long time lurker here, I just popped on to post but read your post above and can relate to so much of that - I still felt very much a child, I was still carrying around those negative child labels that I had been given, I was never given the encouragement or tools to change and I think, for me, it's part of the 'I told you so' mindset - this. Only I do have a sibling and so have the golden child/scapegoat dynamic going on. I'm reading through the Toxic Parents book, have just finished the bit about parenting but not yet started the bit about healing. I put a little tick in the margin next to anything that resonated with me, and have ticks on just about every page.

My situation is nowhere near as severe as others who have posted on here, but it's the drip-drip effect over a lifetime that is getting to me. And yes definitely carrying everything into adulthood - I left home half a lifetime ago but also feel like I never left, I just carried everything around with me. I wish I had sought out therapy much earlier, and wonder what life I might have had. At the moment doctors/psychologists from an initial diagnosis think I might have anxiety, depression, bits of ADHD, Aspergers, Borderline, Bipolar, or it might just all be long-term stress. Personally I think it's the latter.

My DM uses blame and guilt trips a lot. In Toxic Parents terms I think the word the book would use is infantile. Nothing is ever her responsibility or fault. She does this 'helpless' thing - if you ask her to find something in a drawer for example, she will whimper that she can't find it, and you will end up doing it anyway. When she looked after DD I gave her a page of details about where things were in my house 'nappies in 4th drawer down, right at the front' - but came home to find DD had had no tea and was in a swim nappy, so would have wet the bed (and woken during the night). But you can't say anything, because if you do you are picking on her. Step-dad will then stick up for her because I'm making her upset and tell me she can't sleep at night.

DM can also be aggressive - instead of just saying 'no sorry I can't help you with that', the answer will be 'I can't help you because I'm still dealing with xxx which is YOUR fault' - even if whatever it is was her decision. This in particular makes me feel like crap, because I'm always told that I'm wrong, I"m at fault (I'm in my late 30s). It makes me angry, and then cry, and I then don't want to see her for a while but I then somehow forget what she is like and go back round, and she acts as though she is a perfect grandmother. And again if I challenged it, would either get weepy or aggressive and tell everyone she knows about her wayward daughter.

i'm trying to find a therapist as the NHS is making me wait for years by now, and I really want to deal with some of this stuff and move on. Have got a whole list of books to read when there's time.

Would like to move away somewhere, but no idea where I would go - and maybe that is just escaping again. I'm a single mum so moving all by myself to a new area seems risky.

It has taken me about ten years to pluck up the courage to post here. Fuck em, really. Heavily scapegoated by parents who didn't mean to be crap emotionally but were.

Hello! I've been lurking here for a while & I'm just gathering enough courage to post... so I thought a quick & unscary hello would be a good start! I'm feeling a bit uneasy about telling my 'story' as I feel I'm being disloyal (not that any loyalty is really deserved!) - has anyone else felt the same & if so, do you have any tips for overcoming this? Or should I just jump in? Tbh, I'm not even sure where to start...

wannabchick are you me?

WannabeHippyChick UsernameFuckOff
I cant believe there are so many people here. My life has been a crazy, uncontrolled lurch from one dramatic disaster to the next. I'm sick of other peoples drama. I feel like a punchbag.

I've been NC with my abusive family for over 20 years. My nephew and ex SIL recently got in touch. They've been looking for us for years. We're going to have a reunion soon. I'm so happy, they are well and safe (they got away too.)

yoohooitsme Bin it. Treat it like a chain letter. You never saw it.