What do they bring to the table?

[1DAD2KIDS]

So moving on from my impending divorce I am very much challenging my once fairly tail view of love and relationships and exploring new ideas. So I am locking my heart away in a little box for a bit and trying to let my brain help me work out the future in stead.

So sould we consider when finding a future long term relationship/marriage what people bring to the table in terms of earnings, liability and capital? I will just add at this point what I may say is a bit controversial and is a thought experiment of my mine not necessarily my opinion.

So a bit of background. I was young and had a good career and feel in love with a School drop out with no qualifications. We fell in love and I married her. All the years she was in and out of jobs. She could be because I could always support her. She never showed much intrest in providing for her self or making a career for her self. She was quite happy for someone to provide for her. So I always worked my nuts of to earn even more and provide a future reflecting this lack of contribution. Not a problem we were married and would l be together for ever. But then it went wrong and then I realised the things I have worked hard for were in jeapody.

Made me think. I used to think all you need is love but now I think you listen to your brain too. Looking on OLD many profiles allude (overtly or not) looking for a man in work with a decent job. Often on dates I get the very early questions trying to suss out what I do for work and the quality of my life style. Now apologies for the next bit as it may sound like I am being a dick. But often these people I have dated earn a fair bit less, have liabbilities such as kids (I know it sounds cold but in terms of finance) and big debts and/or have little capital such as owning a property. Just to put into context I am 33 and the people I generally date are my age or older. So if women are interested in a man's standing and financial position then why should a man be interested in a woman's standing and financial? If I look at relationships from this angle should we get in a long term relationship/marriage with anyone who does not bring to the table and simular offering than us?

*mrs earns a little more

I think we really do need to really try and hammer it home to our dd that they can have expectations and can realise their potential. If women start the change men will have to step up at home. After all who will pick up the slack once most women have their own career's?

i guess you don't know many couples where both have a FT career. Because I do and I'll tell you who picks up the slack .

Women .

Most if not all of these mothers /wives are run ragged, as they have full responsibility for the kids, the childcare , the house and the wifework. If they have paid childcare , they organise and usually pay for it all. When the kids are sick they have to take time off work.

They can't travel for work as freely as dads because they don't have childcare.

Their partners refuse to take paternity leave, so they have to take maternity leave.

Ditto the house and they usually do all the wifework as well.

The luckiest have what we call " family suport " , which means other women, such as grand mothers, doing more of the above.

I don't know ANY couples where they both have careers where the above is split equally . I'm sure they must exist somewhere , it's just I don't know any.

So forgive my scepticism about all these men arguing that they only want a woman who earns the same as them. Sure they do. But I bet that they don't want to do 50% of the grunt work associated with a home and children.

Equality seem to only work one way.

Kr1stina exactly ! I'd go so far with my girls as to say you only have his baby if he pays you to, literally puts your salary in your account every month. Otherwise forget it. I hope they don't have them tbh

Totally agree with every word Krist1na.

I'm sure there are couples out there who genuinely split the child / house related stuff equally, but in all honesty I have never come across them.

It's not about individual tasks - who does the laundry etc, it's about headspace.

Yes my DH had had the "liability" of financially supporting his family over the last 15 years. What I have brought to the table is just about everything else outside the confines of his career - inc. 3 children and enabling him to achieve all that he has. If I had gone back to work, I would have had to pay someone else to do what I do and it's as simple as that.

It's worked for us because DH recognises and respects what I do and vice versa. He's preferred me being at home for obvious reasons. Whether this has been an advantage or disadvantage to me, depends on how you look at it and whether you define self-worth in terms of financial achievement /career recognition or something wider than that.

Yes I have to agree with the above posters from my experience when I worked in s demanding career, quite often I'd come home to find the kids hungry and ex 'on his way out' after having had the kids.
Non of the laundry would be done so I had them to start all the housework I top of working and looking after the dc.

I'm actually begin I g to think it might be better either to not have kids, or use a sperm donor and know from the off you'll be a single parent.
Then if you want make company just meet someone for nights out and sex.

Male company.

Just meet men for nights out and sex! That's exactly what men want. It's like telling a dog to be a cat (for me anyway).

I agree Kr1stina, men want a woman who earns as much as they do so that they aren't risking any of their assets but I would bet an internal organ that 90% of those men do not visualise themselves cleaning toilets, loading dishwashers, cleaning tracksuit bottoms, finding goggles and swimming hats at 23.47 for swimming the next day, making sandwiches, labelling them because a child in dc1's class has a nut allergy but ds2 is allowed pnb which is fine but never ever send peanut butter in to dc1's class. Hoovering, changing sheets, shopping, cooking, it's all done 95% by women even when they are working 40 hours a week.

and true as well that ''family support'' means other women

I feel I'm one of the lucky ones then in regards to what Kr1stina and subsequent posters have put.

Although I went back to work part time when our DD was born, I could have gone back full time if I wanted, but I didn't want to. My DP, although works full time, works from home 80% of the time so he gets our DD up in the morning and ready for nursery so she doesn't have to get up when I do. The days she isn't in nursery, he insists on starting his working day at 10am earliest so he can spend those few hours with her for quality time before grandparents pick her up. He also does most of the housework while he is working from home, if he hs a particularly busy week where he doesn't have time to do it, we will take it in turns to take our DD out of a weekend while the other catches up with cleaning etc

He took time off work so I could complete a course and could concentrate on that while he did everything with our DD and we also alternate who takes time off when DD is poorly.

When I was on mat leave we had many a heated discussion as he wanted shared parental leave, I didn't, but for our next child I will definitely use this option as I can now see that I was being selfish. Hormones stood in the way of this when we discussed it with our DD!

As far as grandparents are concerned, although my mum doesn't work and my dad is self employed, it's definitely my dad who does more for our DD and nieces.

We also have friends who, when they have children, the dad is going to be the SAHP and the mum is going back to work full time.

Maybe it's a generational thing, or maybe it's just down to the individuals.

I do think I'm very very lucky with my DP though, but there are men like this out there!

TwoCirclesthatdontoverlap. Hence I literally pissed myself laughing when my ex said he wanted 50/50 ie to not pay me child support. He wouldn't do any of it ... And his plan for the school holidays ? You'll have to have them

Women have got to take responsibility for the amount of domestic shite that they take on though - I think in the belief that they are showing "love".

I'm divorced, XH and I work full time.
That's been OK for 5 years - our child is fed when she is there, and he hasn't wasted away.

New woman moves in.
Starts texting me asking for full run through of child's clubs so she can be organised with those.
Cancels the cleaner (we had one because he was a dirty, messy, disrespectful arse) so I can only presume has taken on the cleaning.
Now makes his packed lunch every day.

In a few years when he's cheated on her one two many times (she knows about twice already) she'll be posting on here that she does everything.

So - women, please - think twice before you VOLUNTARILY start with this shit.

Maybe it's a generational thing, or maybe it's just down to the individuals
I'd say both, but with a new generation as more people do it so it will come to be normal and others will follow.
Women will only have children if they are certain that partners will fully share the burden, if men want children they will have to do the right thing

Formerpigwrestler9. I think the truth is a hell of a lot of men don't want children and that's the crunch, she does so she gets stuck with the childcare. I see that a lot. They didn't think they'd find a man who'd want an equal share do they took what they could get and now hate their lives. The whole mind set needs shifting

I think the truth is a hell of a lot of men don't want children and that's the crunch, she does so she gets stuck with the childcare

Perhaps women will increasingly feel that having children is just not worth the huge hit that they have to take?
I have encouraged my daughter (mid 20s) to live life for herself, earn her own money etc, I don't think she has any desire to sacrifice her freedom and independence.
I don't know how representative of her generation she is?

Is it really true that men on average don't want to be fathers?
or is that just how they spin it to get women to bear most of the cost...'you wanted kids you look after them' kinda thing?

Ultimately men, and those in positions of power know that unless women are prepared to have babies society is sunk.
Children are not just pets or hobbies that women have to amuse and induce themselves they are vital for human kind to progress.

Women bear most of the cost of bringing forth new people, as we increasingly realize we are getting a raw deal we will refuse unless we are properly compensated for the physical, mental and financial cost...won't we?

I think they like the idea of being a father, the practicalities are quite dull and annoying aren't they. Difference is women can't or won't walk away usually

Indulge not induce!

I think the pattern basically sets in due to the breastfeeding in the early months. I never really got on with expressing milk so the responsibility of the first 6 months (st least) feeding was all down to me. So while DH never had to think twice about going off on a business trip etc as per normal, for me it could seem like an ordeal just planning getting round supermarket in between feeds - especially when you've been up half the night and you have other young children to factor in to your every move.
Obviously this phase doesn't go on forever, but it's very significant because the mindset for the woman does change in a way that it doesn't for the man, particularly if there are multiple children. It's far more difficult, I think, for the woman to disentangle herself from this because you never really see yourself as "separate" in the same way for a long time.

Difference is women can't or won't walk away usually
Of course, but they can listen to their mothers and not have them in the first place
They can look around at the options and see that a better life can be had by not having children, not shackling yourself to a man

I agree Zaya
I think women will increasingly just decide not to have children, birth rates go down as countries modernize and women have better options

I really really hope so because my life has hardly been awful but it's still not what I want for my daughters

Elisandra that's exactly the point I'm making.

If you actively choose to take everything on yourself then you can't moan when it all gets left to you. I do feel like a headless chicken much of the time, however I acknowledge a lot of that is through choice.

My dh is not the babysitter. If I want to go out and my dh is home, I'm going out, go on holiday with my friends etc I have a far better social life than my dh. I could work away, I don't want to so I don't. I earn my own money and no one's telling me how to spend it. I agree I think women (in general) have a lot of guilt about doing things for themselves.

Just because things aren't done to your standards don't mean they won't get done.

How many men don't deal with their dc meals and bathtimes because they know their dw will be home in a bit and magically sort it all.

Perhaps I'm just very lucky.

You're sharing your luck by telling others how things work in your household and setting an example of how things could be done😇

You mentioned your 20yr old dd. And these are exactly the things my dm taught me.

Life is hard, sometimes, but it is for everyone. However I can support myself and my dc if I have to and I would never allow anyone to threaten my security.

And as I said before, as much as I love my dh, I'd never get married again. What's mine I keep haha.