What do they bring to the table?

[1DAD2KIDS]

So moving on from my impending divorce I am very much challenging my once fairly tail view of love and relationships and exploring new ideas. So I am locking my heart away in a little box for a bit and trying to let my brain help me work out the future in stead.

So sould we consider when finding a future long term relationship/marriage what people bring to the table in terms of earnings, liability and capital? I will just add at this point what I may say is a bit controversial and is a thought experiment of my mine not necessarily my opinion.

So a bit of background. I was young and had a good career and feel in love with a School drop out with no qualifications. We fell in love and I married her. All the years she was in and out of jobs. She could be because I could always support her. She never showed much intrest in providing for her self or making a career for her self. She was quite happy for someone to provide for her. So I always worked my nuts of to earn even more and provide a future reflecting this lack of contribution. Not a problem we were married and would l be together for ever. But then it went wrong and then I realised the things I have worked hard for were in jeapody.

Made me think. I used to think all you need is love but now I think you listen to your brain too. Looking on OLD many profiles allude (overtly or not) looking for a man in work with a decent job. Often on dates I get the very early questions trying to suss out what I do for work and the quality of my life style. Now apologies for the next bit as it may sound like I am being a dick. But often these people I have dated earn a fair bit less, have liabbilities such as kids (I know it sounds cold but in terms of finance) and big debts and/or have little capital such as owning a property. Just to put into context I am 33 and the people I generally date are my age or older. So if women are interested in a man's standing and financial position then why should a man be interested in a woman's standing and financial? If I look at relationships from this angle should we get in a long term relationship/marriage with anyone who does not bring to the table and simular offering than us?

I think, once you're a bit older and you have responsibilities and dependent then yes it is important to think about these things.

When I was OLD I had 3 criteria

1. Make me laugh
2. Not be awful looking
3. Solvent.

If that's shallow, so be it. It didn't want to jeopardise my DCs' futures getting lumbered with a cock lodger.

ravenmum it's just not working is these days too well. The way I see it is SHAP or housewives only really work if a marriage stays together. But the reality theses days is that they often don't. So when it breaks down you go from a situation were one parent is supporting one household and associated bills and their partner and kids. Suddenly it becomes one parent supporting two households, Their ex partner and kids (to varying extents depending on their ex's ability to earn). So do the maths, from a financial point of view it is a disaster waiting to happen. So simplisticly SHAP are bad and both parents should work and earn simular.

But not that easy in the real world. We do have to look many other factors like what's best for the kids. Obviously based on the assumption you'll live happily together forever having a SHAP makes sense for many reasons.

It is a complex situation. But makes you question they way we do relationships. And of course what about the couples not married? Legally the SHAP gets a different lick of the brush. My understanding is basically child maintenance, maybe a share in anything that can be proved the SHAP paid to towards but generally what's his is his and hers is hers.

BitOutOfPractice I agree but number 3 would be number 1 to me. What good is being with someone who has made you laugh at the cost of your kids future? As unromantic and cold as it sounds.

That wasn't necessarily the order of importance OP. I'd give them all equal weighting to be honest. Because what's the point of being with someone with pots of money and earning potential if they are a miserable old bugger who doesn't make you happy?

I'd add some other sub-criteria as well like similar attitudes to housework and domestic tasks, similar family values, shit hot in bed and not wildly different polititcal world view to me. But those three were the key ones.

I wish you all the best OP but to be frank, the world-weary attitude you have here would suggest to me that dating may not be for you yet.

It's more a case of not repeating mistakes of the past if something was to grow into more serious relationship territory. Also as discussed in another thread I am currently exploring less conventional long term relationship set ups.

So simplisticly SHAP are bad and both parents should work and earn simular.

The problem I faced trying to do just this is that this new setup doesn't work too well yet either. It's harder for women to work and earn similar, even with qualifications, and anyway they often end up with two jobs (at work and at home) as the husband still feels like the main earner. My ex used to tut at the men and women who watched the clock and stopped working on the dot. He thought they should be more loyal to their company and work until they had finished the job. He didn't understand that people had to pick up their kids from school at a certain time, as he didn't have to; I did it. In his view his work was more important than mine, even though I earned the same.

Maybe we are just in a transition period still, from the old way to the new, and things will work out better in future.

If you want a high earner, fair enough, especially if you are going to take your partner's work as seriously as you do your own (which it sounds like you would, from your logic). Personally I'd appreciate that greatly.

And this I suspect is why we are all still single.
Happy new year !

And this I suspect is why we are all still single.
Is this meant to say that we are all doing something wrong, or that we are all doing something right?

If only I knew lol

BitOutofPractice - I would agree with your top 3 criteria for OLD. Those were sort of mine subconsciously I think. My problem with the 3. solvent criteria was with my exP this appeared to be the case, however only after he had moved in and feet under the table did I discover this was not the case - debts galore, not able/willing to support himself, manchild basically. However not in a malicious way at all, he was a nice guy, just no responsibility , a cheerful beach bum in reality. So it took me years and years to question myself and have the resentment build - there was always an excuse, always a positive leaning to things. it'll get better soon, etc - finally I cracked. Impacted my children and they are the most important to me. So - just me and the kids now. I have no intention now of ever living with a partner again.

I think it's a case of recognising what life set up is optimal for you rather than right or wrong

I've never understood why so many women want men who make them laugh. I want someone I can talk to as an equal and who is good at compromise and making consensus decisions. So many life and soul of the party type blokes are egocentric motormouths in my experience. Give me a quiet bloke over a joker any day.

I think the Scottish system re divorce is more sensible where only money accrued over the marriage term is split. There may be a few years extra payment to allow long time SAHWs to retrain but spousal maintenance isn't a thing the way it is in England.
You still have to pay for dependant kids via CSA etc..

SandyY2K what you got to understand about my ex is she never really worked much over all the years together. Even before marriage, even before the kids. She was always in and out of minimum wage jobs.

^^ 1DAD2K , The signs of her being workshy were there all along, but love probably blinded you back then and you only saw a happy ever after.

Now your older and wiser, you realise that love on it's own, just isn't enough.

I've never understood why so many women want men who make them laugh.

A good sense of humour goes a long way. I'm not talking about a live in comedian, but I can understand why women like a funny guy.

So people in minimum wage jobs are work shy now ? Wow

I'd take good looking over the class clown. Funny ones are usually insecure twats that try to make people laugh to cover their lack of social skills - worked with lots of them

I'd also say that my ideal man needs to have a sense of humour, but all that means to me is that they don't take life too seriously - they can laugh at themselves for example - and that we could watch a comedy together without a look of confusion appearing in his eyes.

Good looking? There are not enough George Clooneys to go around, alas. I'm happy with "weirdly attractive".

May50 me too, with bells on. Talked a good talk, played me along. by the time I actually realised he had his feet under the table and it was always ' this will come good' ... 6 years and £80K debt later - and his refusal to pay fro himself was a deal breaker... the debt is all in my name tho'

Bitter? trying very very hard not to be, but I have learned an expensive lesson, I will not be able to retire when I had hoped and this is despite earning a very good salary and working FT all my life..

I will ever ever trust anyone again.

lilybetsy - I'm not being funny but debt all in your name wtf ? Alarm bells ring for me if they expect me to buy a drink frankly ... Hard lesson to learn but yes you can trust people but you do not give anyone money you don't have not even your kids

Newbrummie who said people on minimum wage were work shy?

SandyY2K - did

I think she was quoting me. The point was more that she would start a job, find it unsatisfying and leave it about 6 months later and go unemployed. Never stuck at anything. They were all min wage jobs and often only part time. Guess she thought she was entitled to something better bit she had no qualifications apart from the ones the care home gave her and did little to try and advance her self (like collage or study). She was work shy not because of min wage because of her attitude towards work.

Ultimately I feel that we are somewhat defined by what we do. It may not be correct or even very accurate but it is nearly always the first questions people ask each other. Certainly that has been my experience.

I have always worked, literally since I turned 15. Through college, Uni etc. When we had our children it was never suggested that I should not work.

For what it's worth its not even the financial element, but I would feel like part of my identity was gone without my job. What do you find to talk about.

I just think it will be different when you meet someone else. It won't be comparable to being a late teen etc. There are going to be loads of things to consider before you bring someone into your life which didn't exist when you met your ex...if you know what I mean?

Lilybetsy - sorry to hear you have all that debt. That would make me very bitter too. I spend so long trying to understand the mind of someone who doesn't have the same work ethics/ values as me. But you can't change someone fundamentally .