What do they bring to the table?

[1DAD2KIDS]

So moving on from my impending divorce I am very much challenging my once fairly tail view of love and relationships and exploring new ideas. So I am locking my heart away in a little box for a bit and trying to let my brain help me work out the future in stead.

So sould we consider when finding a future long term relationship/marriage what people bring to the table in terms of earnings, liability and capital? I will just add at this point what I may say is a bit controversial and is a thought experiment of my mine not necessarily my opinion.

So a bit of background. I was young and had a good career and feel in love with a School drop out with no qualifications. We fell in love and I married her. All the years she was in and out of jobs. She could be because I could always support her. She never showed much intrest in providing for her self or making a career for her self. She was quite happy for someone to provide for her. So I always worked my nuts of to earn even more and provide a future reflecting this lack of contribution. Not a problem we were married and would l be together for ever. But then it went wrong and then I realised the things I have worked hard for were in jeapody.

Made me think. I used to think all you need is love but now I think you listen to your brain too. Looking on OLD many profiles allude (overtly or not) looking for a man in work with a decent job. Often on dates I get the very early questions trying to suss out what I do for work and the quality of my life style. Now apologies for the next bit as it may sound like I am being a dick. But often these people I have dated earn a fair bit less, have liabbilities such as kids (I know it sounds cold but in terms of finance) and big debts and/or have little capital such as owning a property. Just to put into context I am 33 and the people I generally date are my age or older. So if women are interested in a man's standing and financial position then why should a man be interested in a woman's standing and financial? If I look at relationships from this angle should we get in a long term relationship/marriage with anyone who does not bring to the table and simular offering than us?

Offside, im a woman but you come across as a person weighted down by lazy porn addicted sandbags who was determined to swim to the top.

1Dad2kids. You are only 33. Seriously, one day you will be glad of this chapter, and calmly view it as a chapter that gave you valuable life lessons and better judgement.

As a man you definitely still have time to lick your wounds and slowly bounce back.

I feel like that about my x who was emotionally physically verbally and financially abusive. I feel a catastrophe and a heap of pain and confusion can be the making of you.

Im 45 though and sometimes i wonder if love really exists because if it exist3d surely id be loved. If you have to be youn with no debts, liabilities, kids, responsibikitirs to be loved, then is this thing we"re all looking for even love or is it attraction and compatibility. Maybe that's enough. Im not knocking it. But can a woman be too old to love?

To old to be loved (adjective) that is despite not being too old to love (verb)

My ex goes for older women with their own house etc, it's much easier for him that way. I'm sure he loves them very much ... I don't actually think he would take them to the cleaners but he's certainly enjoy the home comforts they provide

cant beat a sugar momma

I'm not sweet enough I suspect!

I imagine there's varying levels.

It isn't as simple as a job and income but finding out more about those can be revealing as to whether you are a good fit.

The last 4 men in my life. The figures are approx. For comparison, I earn approx. £70K pa, full time, demanding job - away from home a lot. Reverse order:

• Wanker XH: earned £80K, wealthy family, other assets. Had manager role in small family business. Worked fairly hard (within a 9-5) but prone to regular sickies. Well, not lying sickies then going out - I mean, slight sneeze means a day in bed sickies . Had he been born outside that family, his drive and ability would have meant being employed by them of £20K. Plenty of things wrong with him - but financially equalish month to month - just not on assets like pension and expected inheritance (theoretical I know, but v likely). Money wasn't an issue in our relationship. I found him wasteful of it, but he was never in debt. More things like borrowing money from mummy to buy a car instead of saving up I didn't respect that.

• BF: £20K. Worked for himself. Worked short hours to care for his child, and because he simply wasn't in pursuit of the latest iPhone and had low outgoings. Never in debt, always able and willing to put his hand in his pocket. We weren't suited long term, but financially we fitted well out outlook.

Next BF: £10K. Worked part time. Turned down a move from 4 days to 5 as he wouldn't get much more cos of tax credits impact. Appeared to have no drive whatsoever - work or otherwise. Did nothing with his free time. Would expect me to plan stuff (like travel for a weekend away) when I worked 60 hours in another country that week and he worked 32 where he fully admitted he was pissing about on the internet. Dumped him after 6 dates because I couldn't bear his utter passivity and lack of drive.

Current fiancé: £20K. Owns business employing others but it happens to be a low paying industry. Works hard. Always knows how much money he has, never in debt, but can always put his hand in his pocket. Hates waste, but happy to splurge if it's worth it to him - no miser!

Sorry that's long and personal! But I wanted to illustrate that 2/3 times earning far less than me has been no issue. And earning more than me has once been 1/1 times.

If £10K guy had been passionate about his job 4 days and chosen a simple life as he valued an extra day? Fine. I loved that the first £20K guy worked short hours for time with his daughters.

I always want the whole picture.

Nothing wrong with knowing what you want and sticking to it. I've had my fingers burned when younger and now I'm older and wiser and know what I want from life I don't tend to stick around in relationships where my partner is not an intellectual equal, where they are in debt, where they have a very different sex drive and where they drink too much (I drink socially once a week on average). I do like people who have lots of friends, have stable work, are independent and not needy and who have similar interests. I don't really like spending too much time watching tv and sitting around so avoid those types too. It may mean it's harder to find what I want but I'd rather that than settle for someone just because I'm bored or lonely.

I prefer employed too but it's not about 'what they bring to the table' financially or by way of capital. I'm not that interested on how wealthy they are. It's their money. It's more that there are plenty online (male and female) who want someone to look after them.
I'm financially independent and I'd want my partner to be too. I wouldn't turn down someone purely on the fact they weren't employed but I'd want to know they had the maturity and responsibility to manage their own lives. Too many men out there looking for someone to mother them. No thanks. I already have an actual child. I don't need an adult one.

So I am thinking maybe the source of my problem and hence this line of thought is three things:

1. My heart being a total dick and making me fall in love with someone who was intrest wise poles apart and even more so intellectually. To successfully wheather the years together maybe you need more than just pure love, passion and tenderness? Maybe you do need some shared intrests and at least a closer intellectual gap?

1. To be a little more selfish or at least represent my own intrest at little more.

1. Have some finanical boundaries. I used to think when your in love there no his and hers money. What's mine is hers. I would never ask for someone to pay for this or contribute to that. Maybe I should expect someone to pay their own way too (hopefully not end up as the dp on one of those he's financialy abusive threads years down the line)?

I suppose in a way the issue is not so much what they bring to the table but more will they be a fannylodger and/or a danger to my everything I have worked towards? To be fair I have got off fairly with my ex wife. Maybe she feels guilty about what she did to me or moving far away from the kids. But she has been reasonable to her credit (especially as she is sort of selfish by nature). Although it still feels shit forking out a fair wad of cash; will take me years to recover but I have secured my long term future. But it also highlighted how at risk marriage can put you. If she had have tried to take my to the cleaners (especially if she had taken the kids up north with her) she could have totally wipe out my future. So I guess I have learnt the medium way and luckily not the hard way. I can lick my wounds and one day recover. But I would be foolish not to heed the warnings of this sad situation would I not? I want to give my kids the best future I can so I am desperate not to lose it all over some woman.

So how do you know when it all goes wrong that your OH will be fair and not have your pants down? Well is suppose to a certain extent you don't? So I guess it seems only prudent to go with someone who is self sufficient and brings plenty to the table. I don't want to be looked after and I don't want someone for their money. But I suppose to me it would add an extra layer of security.

Although having said that a couple of months ago a very old and close friend of mine bought me dinner at a very nice restaurant. It was a new and very nice experience. I have never been bought dinner before. I felt valued and appreciated. When the bill came she said it on me, you deserve it.

1dad2kids I was wondering if I should put in to my profile that my kids' dad pays maintenance and I'm not looking for a step Dad for them. I thought that would be obvious but reading some of the threads on here lately I'm not not sure. I mean, you seem reasonable, but your fears would probably make you avoid women ''like me''. I'm looking for a relationship for myself, not trying to patch together a fake conventional family. I just know that that can't happen. Me and kids the real unit.

If I could express this delicately would that be good. In a read between the lines way?

That was nice of your old friend to buy you dinner.

I'd say the obvious answer is to date an equal in terms of wealth/assets.

I've dated men with bigger salaries (that's everybody tbh! but I own my house so I don't feel like I would be a liability if a relationship ever got serious. I'd be so reluctant to do anything to jeopardise my house though. I'd like a relationship but not enough to jeopardise the roof over my head)

I'd definitely want someone with a job. I'm less bothered about how much they earn though. For me it's about having purpose and self respect. I am a financially independent single mum, I'd hate for anyone to assume I'm looking for a meal ticket.

My ex fancied himself as self employed, which meant he lived off credit cards. It was a bloody nightmare when the amount of debt was uncovered. I ended up bailing him out of overdraft every month, paying for any big expenses (even before we lived together and had kids) - I did this for ten years, then he cheated on me. It looks like he has given the OW the impression he is well off, but he's remortgaged his property and is up to his eyeballs in debt - I would warn her but she is a nasty cow so I'll let her find out for herself!

You are allowed to use whichever criteria you want to decide who you date, it's not compulsory to date anyone at all. You will find that the more criteria you have the harder it will be to find someone who meets all of them.

This is very well put MsAwesome

My DB is divorced and I think his choice in his second marriage, had some bearing on finances.

My EX SIL earned considerably less than him and could have demanded much more in the divorce, but she's too proud a person. He could have been financially ruined if she wanted spousal support.

I'd say he realised that and my current SIL was financially stable and brings more to the table.

It's not all about the money, but I question why one adult would want to be fully financially dependant on another. It's a recipe for disaster.

I would want someone who I felt was my equal. That would include being intelligent and having a good job. I also have a strong work ethic and am good with money so wouldn't want someone content to not work or who was a spendthrift no matter how nice they are. We would only end up arguing in the long run.
I also couldn't cope with someone with recurrent depression or mood swings.

SandyY2K that's exactly what got me pondering this question. Simular situation to your DB. Taking stock I realised if things went differently I could have been financially ruined by my cheating ex wife. All my life's work gone. All that hard work to make a great future for us all. Relegated to a rental flat, little in the way of disposable income and missing the kids like crazy. Just work all day and pay up to someone else. And just to add salt to the wounds the lay about other man financialy benefiting from the huge boost in his household income. Horrible to imagine him and her enjoying the fruits of my labour. I know for a fact the kids wouldnt see much of my money. Luckily for me she did not want the kids and is being fair to her credit. But scary to think how things could have been. I definitely don't want to be with someone financialy dependent on me again. Traditional hard working bread winner husband role is rubbish. Like you said recipe for disaster.

I met my partner on OLD. He was with his wife for 18 years and his ex hadn't worked for 15 of those, even when the kids were at school, his business was going through tough times, and he didn't know where the next mortgage payment was coming from. He can't believe what a difference it makes to be dating someone who is independent and financially solvent. I don't earn as much as him, but I can pay my mortgage and bills, we can eat out or go to the cinema without thinking about it too hard, and we can take our (5!) kids on holiday. I wouldn't date someone without a job, not because of the money per se, and it wouldn't bother me if I earned more, but it indicates that you are taking responsibility for your own life, you're independent, and not prepared to let someone else keep you. My DP had to buy his ex a car a few weeks ago so she could get the kids (teens) to and from school. This is on top of maintenance and child support. I'd hate to have to support someone in that way, or have someone support me in that way. So, put down what you want, not what you think is polite.

"All my life's work gone" *1Dad2Kids, not trying to have a pop at you honestly but you're 33. You don't get to say all my life's work gone for another 30 years.
Also, regardless of how the relationship works out, staying together, being happy, both parties miserable but can afford to split... bringing children in to the world is what costs. My x would see me as a liability because he pays maintenance. But I (and the judge) saw it as the financial repercussions of having children made more equal (somewhat more equal, the larger burden still mine). And now, off to my underpaid local job that I took to cut down on travelling time so that I can be there for the kids!

LellyKelly, glad you met somebody on OLD. I am wondering how many frogs you date before you give up! My getting a second date ratio to first dates is very low :-/ although I know I have done more rejecting than having to face rejections so that's the way it goes. Just, no over lap between men I like and men who like me. What will 2017 bring? 14 more first dates

I definitely don't want to be with someone financialy dependent on me again. Traditional hard working bread winner husband role is rubbish. Like you said recipe for disaster.

I think if the kids are very young and the wife is taking care of them, it's fine. But once they go to school, then she should look for a job.

I see so many couples, where the man leaves after 20 or 30 years of marriage and the wife hasn't done paid worked for a single day in the marriage. The kids are well and truly grown.

It just leaves you in a vulnerable situation as a woman. Plus what does it show your children? That a woman's job is to be in the home? I have daughters and I don't want them to have that view.

I encourage them to study hard and get a good education/go to university and all for what? ... to be a SAHM for life?

They have more purpose on earth than that.

SandyY2K - to be fair I don't think we will see much of that in the future

This thread shows (in my opinion) why any mum thinking it wise to be a total SAHM for more than a few early years really needs to think hard about this, it may make financial sense at the time but will leave you dependent and with less options if it turns to shit!! I would advise most to' keep their hand in work' even if it's 12 hours a week

Taking stock I realised if things went differently I could have been financially ruined by my cheating ex wife. All my life's work gone. All that hard work to make a great future for us all.
This is not something that only poor hard-working husbands discover, though. Spare a tear for the poor hard-working SAHM, too. Let's say you have two kids, two years apart, and you choose not to put them in full-time care until they start school - by the time the second one is in school, that's 6 years of her career gone (even if she works reduced hours she's still out of the loop). And if she does start full-time work again she may well find herself doing so while remaining in charge of housekeeping and childcare, as she's been doing that for the past 6 years. If there's a divorce she's just as much at risk of all the work she has put into making her home nice going down the drain. Men can con or manipulate their exes into giving stuff up, bearing all the costs or doing all the work just as well as women can. I'm as reliant as you on my ex being cooperative.

I think that this feeling (everything I worked towards in tatters) is just a normal part of separation and divorce. Even if you don't have any clear dreams or goals, you still have some kind of image of what your life is going to be like. I thought I'd live in this house for the rest of my life, and was pleased it had all "worked out" after years of renting, and I wouldn't have to worry about my low pension as I'd be living in this house with the mortgage paid off. Now it turns out I'll be back to renting again. The future I worked towards has gone.

GloriousRoob no that is my life work to date. I am 33 and have worked bloody hard and made sensible choices to get where I am. For someone of my age I think I have done well for my self. All I wanted to do is get to a nice position where I am comfortably well off enough to secure a good future, not worry to much about money and to put my feet up a bit. I have done that. It took a great deal of hard work and financial discipline. Especially when you see everyone around you in your 20s driving around in flash cars eyeballs in debt and your still sitting on the worn dated sofa handed for free while you pump your money into property and living to your means. I would say I have just rewards for that now and a the financial freedom/assets to help the kids when they are older. I could have lost all. Where would be the justice in me moving into a rubbish rental flat while her and her lover enjoy the fruits of my labour? Like I said doubt the kids will have seen much of the money. He pretty much takes all her money as it is.

Obviously to see the kids provided for has always been my number one goal just the same as when I was married. If anything having kids stepped up my drive to do better financially. But what I would have objected (if things turned out differently) is losing my house with my kids for a crumby bedsit and having to continue to fund my work shy ex and her work shy bf while I continue to work hard and have hardly any money to treat the kids. Spousal maintenance would have been completely gutting to me. Although still not out the woods yet. Me and the ex has submitted the clean break we agreed on but of course the judge could disagree with it. Plus if she had have kept the kids 100 miles up North a 50/50 arrangement would not have worked because of the distance. Even though (she admits this her self) the kids are far better with me and (hate to say it) I am doing a better job; if she wanted them I doubt the court would have ruled in my favour. From what I see as long as there is no major issue (I.e. serious drug abuse) things generally go the way of the mother even if the father is better for the job. Luckily I never had to find that out for my self. But anyway family courts are a different issue.

SandyY2K what you got to understand about my ex is she never really worked much over all the years together. Even before marriage, even before the kids. She was always in and out of minimum wage jobs. No qualifications but I guess she didn't enjoy the sort of jobs she could get. But no drive either to do something about getting a better job. Her mum is and always has been a house wife, it works for her and step dad. I guess she has been brought up to find and be supported by a man. Personally with my work ethic and plans for a stable future I would have loved her to work more (especially before we had kids). But I didn't want to pressure her. I wanted to be happy and I knew that if I worked hard and made sacrifices I could provide for us all. It funny you say about encouraging them back to work. I remember a thread on here were a man was talking about encouraging his wife back to work now the children were older. I remember a few people on there were accussing him of being abusive for encouraging her back to work.

I suppose maybe the question should not be what do they bring to the table? But more like how willing are they to bring stuff to the table? But it's hard to judge this willingness. I guess actions speak louder than words so I someone is already is working hard, earning well, in the green and with little liability I guess you could at least say that they are good indications. But I do know that's not the whole story but surely you need some kind of meassure to be safe.

Not that even that measure is fool proof. I remember reading an article about a property tycoon divorce. As soon as they married his ex quit her 80k a year job and became a lady of leisure. They had no children. After a very short marriage she divorce him. She got a huge chunk of his assets to keep her in the life style she had grown accustomed to. I thought that was pretty sick.

Although to be fair I think the courts are starting to get fairer and even overturning some of the unfair decisions of the past to encourage ex spouses who aim to just live off their ex to stand on their own feet. I have just seen this from 2015

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/11431664/How-get-a-job-divorce-ruling-will-change-settlements-on-maintenance-payments.html

At least we don't live in the USA where steep alimony (spousal maintenance) is very much the norm where there is huge earning mismatch. That is really hurting the men and women on the wrong end of it.