What do they bring to the table?

[1DAD2KIDS]

So moving on from my impending divorce I am very much challenging my once fairly tail view of love and relationships and exploring new ideas. So I am locking my heart away in a little box for a bit and trying to let my brain help me work out the future in stead.

So sould we consider when finding a future long term relationship/marriage what people bring to the table in terms of earnings, liability and capital? I will just add at this point what I may say is a bit controversial and is a thought experiment of my mine not necessarily my opinion.

So a bit of background. I was young and had a good career and feel in love with a School drop out with no qualifications. We fell in love and I married her. All the years she was in and out of jobs. She could be because I could always support her. She never showed much intrest in providing for her self or making a career for her self. She was quite happy for someone to provide for her. So I always worked my nuts of to earn even more and provide a future reflecting this lack of contribution. Not a problem we were married and would l be together for ever. But then it went wrong and then I realised the things I have worked hard for were in jeapody.

Made me think. I used to think all you need is love but now I think you listen to your brain too. Looking on OLD many profiles allude (overtly or not) looking for a man in work with a decent job. Often on dates I get the very early questions trying to suss out what I do for work and the quality of my life style. Now apologies for the next bit as it may sound like I am being a dick. But often these people I have dated earn a fair bit less, have liabbilities such as kids (I know it sounds cold but in terms of finance) and big debts and/or have little capital such as owning a property. Just to put into context I am 33 and the people I generally date are my age or older. So if women are interested in a man's standing and financial position then why should a man be interested in a woman's standing and financial? If I look at relationships from this angle should we get in a long term relationship/marriage with anyone who does not bring to the table and simular offering than us?

So people in minimum wage jobs are work shy now ? Wow

Why are you misunderstanding me? I never get why a sensible discussion turns into a personal attack on MN.

It's the being in and out of jobs and not being able to hold a job down that I was referring to not here earning ability or the fact she was on minimum wage jobs

In my opinion, minimum wage jobs are often quite physically demanding, so I'd never say that equates to being workshy.

I earn little more than minimum wage but i have ten hours extra a week from not commuring. I have no rent or mortgage tho which means i have more 8ncome than people earning twice as much.
I do w9nder why i work so hard tho. Im mad.

I think it makes more sense to look at underlying values rather than "what they bring to the table".
I value commitment to rewarding work, taking responsibility, living within your means and planning for the future.
I would not date someone who gets sacked a lot and drifts between rubbish jobs. But I would date somebody with a disability or a carer for a family member or committed to a low paid job like youth work or studying.
The people in these two examples may be equally badly off financially but one shares my values while the other doesn't.

Agree, it's the doing something productive with your time bit that's important to me. Wanting to contribute to society, not be a parasite on it. Being a SAHM when preschool kids is contributing, staying at home all day when kids all at school or no kids is just lazy. Different if studying or doing loads of voluntary work, although perennial student types aren't impressive either. The studying should lead to an actual job that makes you financially independent, not be a way of avoiding work

I agree about the values thing. The only thing I would say though if you marry a low income earner with little/no pension pot regardless of values it comes at added financial risk if it all goes wrong. So just something to consider if thinking about tieing the knot.

Someone with good values or bad values, finanical independent, solvent and their own pension carries far less risk. The court wont be looking to you to contiune supporting them and giving them a slice of your pension. Sorry for the cynical out look on marriage, learnt the hard way.

The only thing I would say though if you marry a low income earner with little/no pension pot regardless of values it comes at added financial risk if it all goes wrong.

^^ very true.

One earning 20k and the other earning 100k, is a massive gap, but in modern relationships these days, there tends not to be such a gap as much.

I think that's why people prefer to stay within their socio-economic group. Not just for the finances, but you're more likely to have similar values, and be of a similar intellect and have similar interests.

I am separated, bought my ex out of our house (which I was lucky to be able to do and can barely afford) and will never risk it (the house) by getting seriously involved with a man again.

In my darkest moments it seems that I have had a series of relationships where men have recognised me as a hard worker and seen how to benefit from it. I won't do it again.

In fact, forget the house. If I ever date again, I won't be messing about in someone's house making eggs and washing up. I want to be taken out and I want someone else, preferably a man, to bring my food to the table. If this doesn't happen (fair enough) I would rather stay at home with a book or see my women friends. I;ve had enough of making men's lives easier and nicer.

Missing the point of the thread spectacularly but at 33 I'd say you really shouldn't be thinking of putting your feet up a bit. To feel you've achieved as much as you are going to at your age says to me that you need some new goals.

My partner earns a lot more than me, as in over ten times as much, so right now he owns one big house that he rents out, I own a small house I rent out, and we rent something together. He pays rent and I pay bills and food. It works for us :-) we are both driven and love working, so although salaries are so different we have common money interests (saving and investing) no one is sponging from the other and we more focus on achieving independent wealth

I think it's fair to say a lot of men feel like you do op after divorce.
I would say when you are ready to date again, that it can come across as being bitter and negative, both of which are massive turn offs.
So make sure you are happy with yourself before dating.
I know it's hard as I was screwed over by my ex h financially.
I had to give up a very nice house because of the debt he has secretly accrued and apparently gnus is very common so women get screwed over too.

Add to this the resentment sahp often feel when it all goes wrong and it's a melting point of resentment.

I agree with the poster who said they won't be cooking and cleaning for a man again.
It may sound harsh but I rarely cool for my oh. We go out for meAls instead.
There's no way I'm reverting to little housewife again, fuck that quite frankly.
This can come across badly but once you've been caught out doing all the monotonous boring chores, which carry no financial reward, you really don't want to go there again.

So In a nutshell ice made sure that my oh is not only financially stable but is house work independant.
By that I mean he can cook and clean and believes in equality enough to not expect me to do these things got him.

I expect a man to bring that to the table.

I did have several dates with a very interesting, financially sound intelligent man. The breaking point for me was when I went to his house.
It was unclean.
He told me that it had been his exs job to do the housework.

There's no way k could live like that do I nod him all the best and moved on.

Yanbu op you want someone at least at a similar stage of life to you. Employment status is a reflection of that. I dated a lonely who was going through a career change which included a period of unemployment. I found that very frustrating as I have been in my professional career 10 years now. I hear he did make it in to teacher training and I'm thrilled for him but it was too late at the time.

My current serious partner had been doing his job and his own business over a decade and he likes it. We are both financially independent and contribute an equal sum to household expenses etc. Because of this we rarely need to discuss money and I really value this. It's a complete non issue.

"This can come across badly "

• I agree. If people like me who have been used financially and in terms of household labour want to date again, we had better be silently watching for the "user" red flags rather than going into situations saying "you'd better not be a user! Are you a user?"

And of course when it comes down to it there is no point in saying anything anyway. better to smile and walk away when you see the signs than carry on, asking or expecting them to change. They won't.

I love my dh greatly but I would never get married again. It's easy to entangle yourselves financially when you have few assets, i.e. when you're young, but once you've built up assets you'd be mad to want to share them with someone who hasn't put the work into their accrual.

For what it's worth my dh earns more than me, but I work school hours by choice, if I worked full time my earnings would be the same. I however deal with all the finances, property purchases, investments. He wouldn't have a clue about where to start with that. He does all the heavy stuff around the house. It's a team effort. But I wouldn't get involved financially with anyone else as I feel whatever we have accrued, if we weren't together, should be in a pot for our dc. I wouldn't want to jeopardise my estate...and I'm not 40. There's no harm thinking ahead. I'd like to think if you're meeting women around your own age or older that they would also want to protect their own financial position.

The breaking point for me was when I went to his house.
It was unclean.He told me that it had been his exs job to do the housework😱

Was probably a breaking point for him too, he hoped you'd don rubber gloves and get to work😂

Yes former pig wrestler.
He told me that he lived in a 'non conventional house' 🙄 and had a car on the drive he had been mending for the past 7 years!!!!
That I could cope with.
The smell of state cat faeces I could not.

A mad cat man
😷😱

ivegotdreadfulpmttoday well is guess it's about mindset. Plus putting my feet up is probably the wrong word. As a full time working single parent I am lucky to find 30 mins to my self most days (especially with the nature of my shifts). It's more a case of putting my feet up in terms of security. I have a house that I love, another house that I rent, good pay, good pension scheme and great job security. Once the kids are older I my ambition is to find some time to travel and get stuck into my hobbies. I don't want to continue to work my nuts of for a bigger house and a flasher car, what's the point? Happy with the nice house I have. No one went to the grave wishing they worked harder. I am in a great place well ahead of schedule so my ambition now is more time to enjoy more enriching things and enjoy time with the kids. Plus I am at the top of the tree in my line of work really so no where else to go up career wise. Well not without relocating to another part of the country and as I live only 2 miles from work, love my house, my city, my family why would. What's wrong with not wanting more when you have what you want?

Antigrinch i know what you mean. My x plundered me like a resource for 8 years and i walked away with nothing. Other men (might) see me as a liability. I have my own house now no thanks to my x. I left him with debts and a rucksack.
Totally agree wrt housework and cooking. I would never do more than 50% in a relationship now.
I think men tend to walk away from broken relationships where there were kids believing erroneously in my view that their wife cost them x y or z.. but bringing children in to the world is hugely xpensive and you pay now (childcare au pair cleaner) or you pay later (portion of pension in a split?)

I take your point and think it's great you're happy with your life. For someone who has worked so hard and had so much ambition, it just seems a massive change in mindset to stop striving now. I did the same when my kids were younger so totally understand that you can't have your pedal to the metal in every area of your life at the same time. ( I found it massively frustrating though 😀)

Boolovessulley it not so much that I am bitter because I am not. Like I said my ex is being very reasonable. But what it has highlighted to me is the risk. If she wasn't being I could lose so much more. Yes she was a bit work shy. Well not sure if it that per se. Maybe brought up to see being a dependant house wife as the way to do things and an unreasonable sense of entitlement in terms of jobs. She dropped out of school never bothered with any later education and wondered why she could only get min wage jobs that she didn't like?

You wound like me then I have a quick tidy up after kids have gone to bed but by mid morning it's always like a bomb has hit it; toys everywhere. Plus the kids have gone away for new year so I am on strike; two days of washing up stacked near the sink. Plus next time I could do with someone who know how to cook for them self. The very first thing the Forces taught me was how to take care of my own admin and be self sufficient. I used to do all of the cooking she did not know how bar ready meals and beans on toast. I used to worry about dd getting fed properly (or at least to the standard of home cooking she should have been enjoying) when I was deployed away. Plus I guess if we are after a division of the house hold jobs someone who likewise can fix the electrics, put up a shelf, do the maintenance and repairs on the cars (I.e. oil changes and brake disk/pad replacements), repair the computer, clean the gutters, the roof etc would be good. I suppose I am getting picky now.

everythingis there does seem to be a fair amount of support for what you say. A few people likewise are saying it's beneficial to be with someone who brings about equal worth in economic terms. I suppose in simple logic of course it is more likely to bring a more successful outcome when you thing about.

Gildedcage yes when you have something of value then you have everything to lose. As someone who brings little does not. You said because of that you would not get married again. Others have said the same and me likewise. But for those of us who said we would not get married for those reasons then likewise we have to accept that the law in UK regarding divorce can be unfair and not always proportionall?

Often I think traditional marriage does not encourage people to support them self or create there own assets. Of course not a problem when it works as designed and you stay combined as one complete entity for the rest of your life. A blob of two people melted into one. But in an age of more social freedom, choice and the welfare state as a safety net if things badly go wrong the reality is that marriages don't stay together half as much, probably often for good reason. So is marriage as an institution defunct? Sad in a way if it is because there is still a little part that hopes it's not. And if it is defunct what do we do now? Especially if we see a world where LTR are not forever what impact does that have on how we brings kids into the world and raise them? If most relationships have a shelf life these days surly we need to work a new framework and attitude to having and raising children?

ivegotdreadfulpmttoday think when you have climbed a mountain or even run up a mountain it's time to take a breather and enjoy what's at the top for a bit. Security is something deeply burned into my psyche. My dad's business went do the pan in the recession of the early 90s when I was about 7. We lost our house and it was hard times. As soon he could he bought another house. Then when he died we nearly lost that house too because he was the main bread winner and the insurance refused to pay out because he got cancer so near to buying the house. My mum didn't earn enough. My big brother not long out of collage him self work so hard with my mum and paid half the mortgage. I guess that's why I have always been careful with my money and dream of security. That's why it was so scary to realise that not only is marriage not for ever but also it's a huge risk to your everything you worked for. That's why I need to be far more careful in the future and use my head way more than my heart.

Marriage and the house wife/bread winner set up was encouraged after the war. At no other point in history have people acquired there own assets and wealth through work, it was either inherited in which case a woman handed over to her husband so you'd better get that match right love or you didn't have any assets and still worked your ass off.
It's strange times we live in and people are still adjusting to that

Fair point. If we think back through history we never used to have the prosperity to have house wives. Often women and children had to toil the same as the husband working the land or working in the Mills just to ensure the family didn't starve to death. I guess a family unit was a team working together just to survive.

I don't have the answers but I can see in years to come many people, maybe even myself living individually through sheer fear of what they will loose and then loosing it all anyway in Heath care bills trying to prolong their lonely lives.

1DAD,

you sound like a very intelligent, sensible and sensitive kind of chap. It's a good jobas well, otherwise your kids would be the ones to suffer with a mum like theirs.

It's always wise to reflect on what could have been ... like you loosing so much when she cheated and left. In fact, it would be very foolish not to think about it and guard against it.

It's bad enough getting your heart broken and you don't want to add being broke financially to that either.

Plus you need to safeguard your children's future and not allow someone to swan off with their inheritance.