DH: Selective infantile behaviour

[chalkychopstick]

Currently on holiday with DH and DCs but feeling like I'm going to need another one afterwards and not because of the DCs!

DH is an intelligent, professional person, highly respected by his colleagues, friends and family. However, for some strange reason, he will act like a silly child given the opportunity when nobody else is around. Around his family, a hands-on professional, efficient father- which he very much is at times and I love the grown up that he is around his parents.
When it's just us and the DCs, this just isn't the case, he becomes almost torment-like. Will make silly, loud noises for no reason, will ask me question after question after question, why are you doing this? Why are you doing that? Does the fruit go in the fruit bowl? Etc etc
I find it exhausting with the DCs too and it affects my mood, I struggle to enjoy myself and constantly having to remind DH not to ask pointless questions. By the end of the day I've little patience left and end up snapping and DH and DCs. I've told myself to lighten up, enjoy myself but then I thought, hey this is my holiday too- maybe I want to act silly and shun responsibility. Why does DH get to do this and not me?

I'm starting to think that perhaps DH is subconsciously trying to torment me? Or maybe I do need to lighten up? Last night, DCs were in bed and we sat on the sofa with a glass of wine, watching a film. DH decided to begin shaking his leg constantly, I asked him to stop, he did for a short time and then started briskly again, knocking my wine glass and spilling wine on the sofa. This ended in an argument- DH tells me it was an accident and 'can't help it' if he needs to fidget, ask questions and make silly noises all the time.
Thing is: he doesn't act like this all the time, I've never seen him behave like this infront of his friends or parents.
I dont want to badmouth DH her, but I guews what I'm looking for is coping strategies? I almost think DH is waiting for an irritated reaction from me. How can I cope with this better and perhaps get DH to stop being so child-like? I want to leave this holiday without feeling the need for another.

Thumb Jack Russelling?? No I was kinda referring to getting assessed or something, to just check he´s def not got anything wrong with him like ADD, ASD or other neuro-type disorders. But how bloody annoying beyond belief...so you think he´s reverting back to being a child to get attention? Sounds VERY fucked up to me.

You may have to give him an ultimatum if he won´t stop and it´s getting worse? If he´s not gonna acknowledge your feelings and consider the impact it´s all having on you, then what future do you have? He doesn´t sound very loving and kind tbh. Sorry to sound harsh. But I think this level of total disregard would be a dealbreaker for some.

Galvanised Wow so you and your whole family have ASD?? I had no idea it was so common til I came on MN, but you hear about it all over now. So it´s hereditary then? So your parents have it too?

I sometimes worry things get overdiagnosed cos you just never used to hear about this at all when I was a kid in the 80s, and it can´t all just be down to better recognition and knowledge of the condition nowadays. Something´s causing a rise in it. But I do get concerned that, if there´s no physical test that can be done, ( and I have no idea how they go about diagnosing ) then how can they be 100% that they are diagnosing ASD and similar? So maybe there´s a lot of false positives? Cos it´s not like you can take a blood sample and the Dr goes ¨Yes you´ve got ASD¨ like you can with an infection etc!

Plenty of people just behave oddly for various reasons, they aren´t necessarily in possession of an undiagnosed condition. So why are there so many people walking around with the ASD etc label? It´s now become a really common condition and everybody knows somebody that has it. And the worry is, if it´s genetic then more Autistic people are gonna go on to produce more autistic people and there´s just gonna be a progressive increase over time.

What do you think causes it? Exposure to certain chemicals in food, environmental toxins etc causing a faulty gene?

What squash said about what difference a diagnosis (even if self diagnosed) is making.
I've spent a lot of time temi ding myself that DH isn't being annoying/rude fur the sake of it but is acting like this because of AS.

And YY to keep about going out of the room if he is singing etc...

It sounds to me as if you're on holiday and he's letting his hair down. My OH does the same when it's just us and the kids sings, dances, asks stupid questions, fidgets I just join in or give equally silly answers. It's just because he's relaxed and doesn't feel he has to pretend to be a grownup. He may even be trying to get your attention. You pointed out that in the kitchen he was asking silly questions, maybe he just wanted to talk with you, not about anything in particular but just as a way of socialising. Maybe because you're an introvert and don't want to chat about boring unimportant stuff he's feeling a little lonely and what he sees as trying to be funny or making chit chat, you see as being irritating.

I honestly think you should try to let your hair down a bit and "play" with him. You'll probably find the outbursts reduce.

I feel a bit sorry for him really but I hope you work something out.

moom tbh there is s lot of things that are diagnosed wo a blood test. ME is one of them but I also know of people diagnosed with autoimmune diasease that aren't showing through blood test.
Blood tests just aren't THE way to be sure one has X or Y illness/diagnosis.

As for the reason of the increase, there is a lot of discussion around that. I believe there is a strong genetic thing going on (DH is self diagnosed but my FIL has traits that are even more obvious whereas ds has traits but wouldn't be diagnosed). I suspect that environmental factors are at play too. Immunisations, vitamins, diet. A lot of things seem to be linked with autism.
I don't believe in a one cause answer though.

Moomin, are you trying to be offensive? I'll assume not. My children are not 'faulty' but I probably should have used asc rather than asd. Yes, the concept is now we have a better understanding of spectrum conditions. Years ago really only 'classic' autism was recognised. You could read 'neurotribes' if you want to inform yourself on the direction of current thinking.

Diagnostic criteria have changed enormously since the 80s.

And it's not a "label" tyvm.

"jack russelling" - named after the small dogs that like to dry hump legs (could just as easily have been "Yorkshire terriering" but it doesn't work so well!) = dry humping from behind while ostensibly giving you a cuddle. Bloody enraging in most cases (some people don't mind, but most, I've found, do).

Don't know what the future holds, tbh. Probably valium for me . BUt in all seriousness, I really don't know. I hope that as the boys grow older, then the juvenile behaviour of DH will change for the better. Keep hoping that I'll get through to him. He wouldn't get himself assessed for ASD, I'm sure - although he does like to say he has Tourette's (he really really doesn't, I'm pretty sure) - it's just a convenient excuse. I sound really awful, don't I - as though I'm ignoring a possible medical diagnosis - but I know DH, and I know he is a) a massive hypochondriac and b) likes to catastrophise everything. So a pain in his chest/stomach area has to be a heart attack (no, he was checked and everything). They did stress tests on him too - all fine. His BP is fine but he still has a home monitor. A headache has to be a potential brain tumour. Of course, it might be - or it might be that he had too much wine and insufficient sleep. And a couple of pills cures it very quickly, except he has to be fucking told to take them!
Gah.

He does have lots of good points, honestly.

X posted with galvanised.

Neurotribes is definitely worth a read for anyone with an ounce of curiosity.

Moomin your post is, I am sure inadvertently, immensely offensive. My aspergers children are entirely valid humans, hopefully they will be productive adults in niche fields as their grandfather is and back through the generations. They are different rather than defective, and if everyone had aspergers we would have different cultural and societal rules that would be easier for them. I sincerely hope they do grow up to love, be loved, and breed. Even if that means aspergers in my grandchildren. My kids are not mean or nasty or evil but they do sometimes make social errors. Should they be sterilised? Didn't Hitler have that idea already?

Without wishing to labour the point, pps who are identifying that their adult partners display some of these behaviours, it really is worth having a look at www.different-together.co.uk and www.adhdmarriage.com - if only to eliminate a neurological explanation.

For some, diagnosis is a help. For others maybe not so. What perhaps is important, is that these websites give tremendous support those in such relationships to learn and understand about just what is going on. And make informed choices and decisions.

FWIW - the repetitive crazy making questioning is a sign post. Something to do with processing difficulties.

Yes different together is a very good website for partners of people with AS.

Yes to different rather than 'faulty'. My brain is as valid as anyone else's.

Re attention seeking. It probably is, but in a different way. He's probably more agitated since having to share attention (including physical attention) with the children. Feeling more agitated leads to an increase in unwanted behaviours. Being criticised/rejected because of the behaviours leads to even more agitation etc etc.

The key is more self-awareness on his part as to his patterns of behaviour, and him putting real thought into how he can reduce the cycle of behaviour. It certainly worked for me to be able to predict situations which made me more agitated and plan how I could minimise this.

Children with special needs used to be sent away to residential special schools. As a child, I remember seeing adults with Downs Syndrome, but no children. We had 'slow learners' in our class, and a child who was a 'loner' and was always by himself. We had a child who never shut up/got into a lot of fights (me). I met adults who had ASD at the daycare centre where my mum worked, I didn't know there were children with it too. Likewise children with hearing/visual impairments.

I think we are better at spotting/diagnosing early now that we no longer hide children away. I was diagnosed at 35. I was a child with ADHD. My treatment was belt/stand outside classroom/belt/write lines.

You make a good point Keep. There are a lot of people, in their 30s,40s, 50s, 60s,70s coming to the understanding and recognition about ASD/ADHD in themselves and their partners. People like yourself, who just weren't on the radar in school or society back then. That's a lot of coping and managing on both sides when you're in a relationship.

My OH is like this.
I wondered if it was because he is a bit deaf & doesn't know others can hear it.
I wondered if he needed to always ask because I am the leader in this family.
I wondered if the constant repeating of what I had already said was because he was getting dementia.
I wondered why he needed to ask where is the "insert own word", (milk, towel, bread knife) which he knows perfectly well when I am not around
I wondered why I always got snarled at as being responsible for arguments due to his infantile behaviour.

Last night, I stood a few feet away & spoke to him clearly about a form I was filling in about the order of his middle names. He asked me if I was speaking to him. No I said, I am standing right here infront of you, as you are looking directly at me as I am speaking directly to the only person in the room. Who do you think I'm talking to the moon ?

I think he losing his nasty manipulative mind. I also think he does it, so that I will take over & he will not have to put fruit away etc

DD, (in the kitchen) said "why are you filling in that form, let him do it" ........ I know why, I would be implicated, his writing is appalling, he doesn't know how to use scanner, I would end up doing it in the end.

Sorry no solution, but it is deliberate & part of why I should leave.

OP hasn't been back.

I have to say I don't have any answers.
mix56 post reminds me of how I felt some years ago before we knew about AS. The 'surely he is doing that on purpose' type of feeling.
And the feeling of the other person being controlling of not abusive.

I gave also been very worried about accepting a self diagnosis s d using it as an excuse to his behaviours and for me to accept things I shouldn't accept.

I don't know the answer there. How you know that it's one rather than the other.

Duck Yes I´ve noticed that but didn´t post cos I know she´s on hols so I let her off.

Thumb you have my sympathies. It sounds very stressful and hard as fuck for you! I would be a bit worried how his behaviour is impacting and potentially influencing that of your kids´. Will they look at him and think that it´s an acceptable way to behave and treat you, their mother?

And as for Squashy and Galvanised, not really sure how my post was in any way offensive. You both sound very sensitive and defensive. Where did I imply anyone´s kids were sub-human or ¨faulty¨? I´d already professed my ignorance of the subject so if the wording of my post inadvertantly offends then there´s not much I can do about that.

And I certainly have never inferred I´m in favour of bloody Eugenics!

Even if it is because he turns out to have autism it doesn't mean op has to accept it or the dh gets to use it as an excuse.....it is still something the op can object to and ask the husband to find an alternative stress release, which he might be more open to if he knew why he does it.

Moomin you said something along the lines of 'the worry is that if it's genetic then autistic people are going to produce more autistic people over time'

I could say 'the worry is, if it's genetic then black people will produce more black people over time' or 'the worry is, if it's genetic then stupid people will produce more stupid people over time' and perhaps the reason why that was offensive will be more obvious. You basically said that more autistic people was a bad thing that caused you worry. I responded that autism (of the type we are discussing) isn't a tragedy but a different way of being, not something we should hope to 'breed out'.

You also specifically mentioned a 'faulty' gene....

Moomin, you seemed to be overly concerned that all those autistics would breed and take over the world (OK, I'm exaggerating, but take another look at your post and tell me that's not how it looked)

You may be relieved to know that there is an element of self-limitation when it comes to the great autistic plot for world domination. I have lots of autism in my family (undiagnosed in previous generations, but undoubtedly there) and DH has a fair bit of stuff going on, in his. We're both the archetypal Silicon Valley type geek, with plenty of traits, but to a sub-clinical degree - this has been described by some as the Broader Autism Phenotype.

Our boys are both quite severely affected by autism. One will probably never live independently and the other can't be doing with people especially the female ones. You can be safe in the knowledge that the chances of them producing a further generation of autistic progeny are probably quite slim.

Thumb just because DH is wrong about heart attacks and brain tumours doesn't mean he's wrong about potentially being neurodivergent - ie what he calls 'Tourette's'.

In fact ADHD and ASD are associated with higher anxiety levels and the health worries may be part of this.

If asd or particular variants of the same provide reproductive fitness, they'll increase: it's called evolution by natural selection.

My BiL is firmly convinced that this is the case and that he and others like him are the next stage in human evolution - so much more rational and logical about stuff then these nt types.