DH: Selective infantile behaviour

[chalkychopstick]

Currently on holiday with DH and DCs but feeling like I'm going to need another one afterwards and not because of the DCs!

DH is an intelligent, professional person, highly respected by his colleagues, friends and family. However, for some strange reason, he will act like a silly child given the opportunity when nobody else is around. Around his family, a hands-on professional, efficient father- which he very much is at times and I love the grown up that he is around his parents.
When it's just us and the DCs, this just isn't the case, he becomes almost torment-like. Will make silly, loud noises for no reason, will ask me question after question after question, why are you doing this? Why are you doing that? Does the fruit go in the fruit bowl? Etc etc
I find it exhausting with the DCs too and it affects my mood, I struggle to enjoy myself and constantly having to remind DH not to ask pointless questions. By the end of the day I've little patience left and end up snapping and DH and DCs. I've told myself to lighten up, enjoy myself but then I thought, hey this is my holiday too- maybe I want to act silly and shun responsibility. Why does DH get to do this and not me?

I'm starting to think that perhaps DH is subconsciously trying to torment me? Or maybe I do need to lighten up? Last night, DCs were in bed and we sat on the sofa with a glass of wine, watching a film. DH decided to begin shaking his leg constantly, I asked him to stop, he did for a short time and then started briskly again, knocking my wine glass and spilling wine on the sofa. This ended in an argument- DH tells me it was an accident and 'can't help it' if he needs to fidget, ask questions and make silly noises all the time.
Thing is: he doesn't act like this all the time, I've never seen him behave like this infront of his friends or parents.
I dont want to badmouth DH her, but I guews what I'm looking for is coping strategies? I almost think DH is waiting for an irritated reaction from me. How can I cope with this better and perhaps get DH to stop being so child-like? I want to leave this holiday without feeling the need for another.

My father does this. He has aspergers and its called 'stimming'. He can put on a calm and capable front for so long but it gets too stressful.

He sounds just like my son. My son is 16 and does have some issues and it's hard enough having to cope with this behaviour with him. If my husband was doing it I think I would leave home. DS randomly comes out with noises, screams, sings (and it's always the one line) at the most inappropriate moments and talks and talks and talks and doesn't seem to care if others ask him to stop. He has been under specialists for ages and he has got an OCD and LD diagnosis but this behaviour has been going on for years and it isn't getting better.

I can't relate to having a husband like this but I can relate to living with someone like this and as much as I love my son it is fucking exhausting and sometimes you want to bang your head against the wall and scream because the noises, they grate, the questions.. sorry I'm getting stressed thinking about it :)

I wish I had some advice for you. I don't know if he has a reason for it or if he is just being an arse, no one can say. I just feel for you

The closest I can get to describing how I feel when I've had to hold it in for too long is how you feel if someone gives you a fright. It's like every single nerve in my body is at maximum jangle, I feel like I can't breathe, my skin/scalp tingles/hurts.

Sounds to me he reverts to a child like state around you. Almost like he sees you as his mother!!

I do think some of the things he does is harmless though. Singing, so what? Also the questions are sometimes just somebody thinking out loud. I do that often. Sounds like your a bit mismatched

Perhaps some of us could just errm, read what Keeptrudging has posted on this thread!

Who the actual, thinks office behaviour is Neuro Typical?? Its odd, exaggerated safe interaction, cold and emotionless. If you behave like you are in an office all the time you are not Neuro Typical, you are odd.

Not read the whole thread but from your description he sounds just like a man that worked in my place. Unlike your husband though he didn't have any qualms about displaying it in public. Seemed to be a desperate attempt for constant attention but everyone absolutely hated him for it. One of the girls ended up recording his stupidity and played it back to him. It definitely had an effect on his volume for a while. Worth a try.

So shame him, like the guy in the office? Nice.

OP, my DH does this too. He also has an almost constant need for sound, so if there isn't any, he'll supply his own, by either singing (yes, same line over and over, with more and more exaggerated effect until I snap) or making that "tish tish bmtish" noise as though he were wearing earphones with the sound turned up too loud. Or fingertapping.
Oddly, not when he's working - and he works a lot from home, so I know this.
I ask him if he behaves in this juvenile fashion with anyone else - answer, no. Does he do it with his mother? Answer, no. Now you'd think that he'd feel "safe" to do it with her as well, wouldn't you - they're very close and she babies him a fair bit - but no, it's saved for me. He knows it drives me nuts (yes, continuous repetitive "singing" is aggravating, especially for someone who is sensitive to sound, as I am) but he doesn't seem able to stop himself, apparently.

We had an exchange the other day which was entirely unnecessary - he just had to keep asking inane questions, rather like thinking out loud, instead of just getting on and doing the thing he was doing. I've reached a point of non-engagement wherever possible because it's ridiculous. It's like having a young teenager in the house, as well as 2 small boys. He loves the boys to bits but is a bit of a "disney" dad with them - all the actual work is left to me, he plays with them but is crap at disciplining, he cooks every other day, but never does bath or teeth with them. He has done nappies and so on; but night bathing is my job, as is looking after them when ill - all the duty stuff.

He's a decent bloke and I do love him but I just WISH he'd stop switching to "child" mode when I'm around and manage to keep being a responsible adult - after all, I bloody well have to, why can't he?

Also, I don't believe for a second that he has any form of ASD/ADD/ADHD.

The difference with keep though is that the OP's DH has not recognised any issue with ADHD or anything like this.

Having a DH who has undiagnosed AS, I can tell you that nothing can change until the person has acknowledged that their behaviour CAN be an issue with people around them.
It's all good to say that the OP should accept he needs to unwind but is it really OK to put the needs of one person (her DH) above the ones of the other (the OP)?

The only way this can be resolved is by her DH starting to acknowledge he is giving the OP some problems. And to then either modify his behaviour (if he can), seek some diagnosis or self diagnosis.
Then and only then they will be able to find a com[promise that allows them boith to be 'themselves', to iunwind etc... wo being too much of a burden for the other (and I do think it goes both ways if the DH does indeed have ADHD etc...)

Why is that shaming keep?

I think sometimes, you don't actually realise how mcuh you are doing one thing. So yes it might come as a surprise to him, yes he might not like it. But how about the people around who have to put up with it all? How do yu make one realise that they are asking stupid questions one after the other if they don't see it themselves afetr you've told them?
Do you have another idea?

The office one smacked of bullying "everyone absolutely hated him for it". How horrible to be filmed/ganged up on by the whole office.

The answer for me is to go and do something which unwinds me. I'm given the space to do it. The answer for the OP might be to try to identify when this annoying behaviour is at its worst generally e.g. after work, before food, when she's busy and be honest with her husband about her need for him to go and do something to unwind which doesn't involve her. Find a boundary which works and stick to it.

OP is also entitled to not be wound up by her DH, but it calls for some open (and specific) discussion at a time when they're both calm. "When you do x, it makes me feel y." I'm horrific after work. A twitching mess. My DH brings me a coffee and backs off for at least half an hour. That's our routine, it works for us, I don't annoy him, he isn't upset by it. Work out when you need quiet/space the most and draw your line in the sand. Him listening to that (although he may need reminded of your deal) would be respectful. I'm not making excuses in likening his behaviour to my own/thinking of ADHD, I only know what my own experience is, which is that my needs don't trump others' needs, but a little understanding of flash points goes a long way.

he closest I can get to describing how I feel when I've had to hold it in for too long is how you feel if someone gives you a fright. It's like every single nerve in my body is at maximum jangle, I feel like I can't breathe, my skin/scalp tingles/hurts

I'm NT (as far as I know) but the exactly describes how I feel around noise and clutter. I describe it as my teeth itching/hurting, and it's a genuine (and painful) physical sensation inside my head.

I simply couldn't be in a relationship with someone who sang or jiggled like the OP's DH. No blame on either side, we would just be hopelessly incompatible.

As with other posters, I'm far more cynical about the endless, ridiculous questions...

My dh does the endless questions usually around tidying up. Holds up a scribble the 5 year old has done and asks if it can be recycled or needs to be kept. I always refer him to the person who drew it but 17 years in he still asks me every time.
My son does the other stuff. He's almost 12 and has done it since he was a toddler. He sings the same line over and over, says sillyor rude things and snatches of phrases over and over. He just came out of his room and yelled 'poopoo' as I was typing. Any question you ask him he answers 'yer Mum' or 'these nuts' and will say this 4 or 5 times rather than actually answer. He will do this over and over and never ever stops with a gentle reminder or a stern warning, only ever when the other person gets angry. He isn't gaslighting or being abusive, unless he's been abusive since he was born. I suspect he has aspergers or something similar, but it presents atypically nd I doubt he'd get a diagnosis. He also is capable of communicating sensibly and does so with teachers and authority figures for example, but seems to find it effortful and we get the 'stimming' at home. Both his brothers have aspergers BTW, so the genetic link between autism and this kind of irritating behaviour is clearly there in our family.
To the previous poster upset that 'cockish' behaviour is always put down to autism on Mumsnet, and comparing it with her own family...I feel for my son when he behaves this way. It doesn't make him any friends. However the thought that certain people would be certain that he does it 'in order to control or exert power' because he is an abusive wanker is far worse than someone thinking he is stimming. I do wonder if he were diagnosed (as your family clearly is) whether he would understand himself better and act to try to release his stress in a different (less annoying) way.

3wisewomen I agree with you. Question for the ladies with partners with Aspergers....so what difference does it make when it is actually diagnosed? Because it´s still gonna be just as annoying, right? Only now your OH has a diagnosed condition. As you mention above, what if he doesn´t acknowledge he´s being annoying and take his partner´s feelings into account? He would need to be very self-aware to do this.

Also, genuine question...why would you marry and settle with a man who displayed these annoying behaviours anyway? Do they keep it under control while you are ¨courting¨ and well into marriage, then they just reveal their ¨other side¨? How does it work?

Cos personally, I couldn´t settle down with somebody like this. Unless they took responsibility and had consideration for me, putting coping strategies in place. It´s totally not realistic for this to not have an effect on the relationship years down the line, unless you´ve got a really high tolerance level!

I would really resent the fact that the annoying behaviour is saved for me alone tbh. So going back to my original point, what difference does an actual diagnosis even make if he´s still gonna be just as irritating and wearing on you as a partner?
It´d drive me round the bend and I´d have to get out of the relationship to save my own sanity!

My 'behaviour' is worse under stress/in busy environments. Could it be that the arrival of this behaviour once they had children is linked to increased stress/busier environment?

Answer to your second question: No, DH didn't display said infantile behaviours to start with; and in fact was quite a reasonable adult until we moved to Australia and back to him being in his mother's sphere. It's getting steadily worse, if anything!

What difference does a diagnosis make?
Loads. Firstly, it changes the partner from thinking (as many were upthread) that this person is behaving in a deliberately abusive or controlling way to understanding that there is no coercion or deliberate 'nastiness' going on, which makes a huge difference in the way you regard someone.
Secondly, the person comes to realsie that they are indeed different and do have a difference in their wiring. This (hopefully) means that hey can better understand a) that not everyone behaves like this, it is outside the norm, and b) that it is genuinely annoying to someone who isn't wired that way. They may begin to be more motivated to seek out other ways to release stress that have less impact on their partner once they understand that it is, in fact, them who is the 'unusual' one and not the partner being a killjoy. It also gives people a better motivation to 'study' neurotypical behaviour (in some cases) once they understand that heir behaviour is NOT neurotypical.

Thumb That´s really interesting. And strange! Esp given you said you don´t believe he has ASD etc. What the heck could warrent such off the wall behaviour then? I can´t believe that he can´t help it. And, like other posters, it´s centered around you and only you?!

What are you gonna do? Would he seek medical help?

squashy thanks for your response. Yes hopefully a partner would be motivated to look for ways to cope and consider their partner, as keeptrudging describes in her situation. You both have to find a way to manage and compromise I guess. If the ASD partner is amenable to that.

I remember a long thread on here about partners of people with ASD and how some of the posters were suffering. Some of their situations sounded utterly miserable, esp as some described that the behaviour even came off as abusive. It sounds very stressful for all concerned really.

Once children come along there is a lot less flexibility within the relationship. There simply isn't the time or space that there was before. Added to that children bring with them lots of stresses and triggers (like noise and clutter) that add significantly to the problem.
I have several dc with asd and ADHD. It was only once they were diagnosed that I realised both my partner and I had similar issues. There is no one-size-fits-all set of symptoms, triggers, tics. The amount of times parents of children with asd/ADHD are told 'well, my child doesn't like seams in their socks either and there is nothing wrong with them' - it can feel relentless. The point is someone adult/child with ADHD or autism tends to be affected with many of these sorts of things. And taken all together, they have a significant impact on their life.
Parents/partners/people living with asd/ADHD can often spot these things in others because they are so familiar with the effects/consequences. It might sound like armchair diagnoses, which in turn can sound flippant or over-simplifying, but it isn't meant that way.

What sort of medical help, Moomin? Tranquilisers?

I'd say that regardless of the condition, if the affected person doesn't at least try to minimise the effect on their partner, then it could be abuse. Any person can be abusive and having a condition doesn't make that person incapable of it.
My main guideline is whether the person is willing to listen to their partner, accept their feelings and address the problem.

But, ultimately, it still goes to what you're happy to deal with and whether it's affecting your mental health too. You shouldn't have to put up with anything damaging to you, even if it's not your partner's fault as such.

To be fair, I think some of it is an attention seeking thing with my (and perhaps others') DH - the children do get the majority of my attention, especially when small, and maybe he thinks that by behaving more like a child that I'll pay more attention to him too. But you would think, seriously, that after several years of this being completely counterproductive, that he would have knocked it on the head by now. Instead, as I said, it seems to be worse.

He has been able to stop other things - like the "jack russelling" which I found utterly repellent - but he just seems to think I'm joking and that I "still love him anyway" when I tell him how pissed off his behaviour makes me. It's just so disrespectful - he says sorry but just carries on.

Late to the thread and not read all the pages...

My DH does this too, v similar. I am sure he has Tourette's of some kind. He twitches, jiggles, taps, makes noises. Especially when he is tired, after a stressful day, or if he is winding down from something. Holidays would be a key time for this to increase.

We've been together nearly 30 years...I've never mentioned it to him at all in all that time. I know other people notice though, and I know I give off the vibe that it isn't to be mentioned.

It helps that has a very niche talent that allows him to appear a bit odd and genius-like and people accept that.