DD (22) surprise engagement...worried

[JudoJelly]

My DD is engaged, she is 22. She has been with him for 3 years since they met at the start of uni. They want to marry next christmas. They have never stayed overnight together or been on holiday and refuse to move in together before marriage. She has just got a reasonably well-paid job and we are helping her buy a flat but he is struggling to find a job. I knew they were considering marriage (they are both religious but DH and I are not) but didn't realise it would happen so soon. I have always felt living together for a few years and getting careers sorted was wise.
I'm concerned there is no real spark. They see each other every few weekends (DD is living in our hometown, he is living at their old uni town). DD seems to love the idea of it all and security of being 'sorted' (her words) but I just don't see real, passionate love and excitement. His upbringing and what he wants in life is very different from DDs but she says they'll work it out. It all is very rushed. Apart from church friends, none of DDs friends are engaged. Some have boyfriends but marriage is definitely not on the cards anytime soon!
If this was 4-5 years time and they had lived together (or even just been on holiday or generally seen that they can cope with extended periods of time together) then I'd be overjoyed. I don't believe he isn't 'the one' for her, I just don't think the time is right or see the rush.
Obviously they are adults and can do as they wish. I would not intervene and stop this but words of wisdom/advice would be useful. DD is generally very sensible and open but I know I need to tread carefully.

I think you sound ridiculous. 22 is not that young at all. Three years is a long time to be together. I'm from a religious background and what you're describing is not at all unusual.

It's unnecessary to live together first. Read the relationships board and see how it often doesn't work! Marriage is complicated regardless of how you do it. Getting married without living together first and getting married after three years is absolutely valid and no worse than the way you're suggesting.

I agree that the different life goals is a concern but if they're religious they will probably also be going through a thorough marriage preparation course that will overhaul all that.

It's a bit ironic that these girl's choices are seen as a problem. Fifty years ago this was what everyone did.

Lyn, they have been together since uni and plan to marry in a year. Hardly any rushing is it? I think OP has her idea of what she wants her daughter to do that is acceptable to her standard. Her daughter is different and she had to accept it and not try to talk her out of it.

What you interpret as 'no spark' could also mean they are placing more emphasis (not no emphasis!) on character qualities but could also simply indicate that their relationship is intentionally not sexual at the moment.

not all the emphasis that should say.

The getting sorted bit is not related to the religious element.

Imo it's about fear of being left on the shelf, fear that nobody better will come along, fear that life will pass her by, and fear that the unknown of adult existence (the world of work) that looms before her will be unbearable without the rest of adult existence (a conventional adult relationship) to afford a sense of security.

The understandable anxiety that young adults often feel when they leave full time education (which has been their comfy milieu since they were four after all) and start again at the bottom of the ladder in a job or on the first step of a career, deal with real life and all that entails including the fear and anxiety related to being entirely responsible for yourself, can lead some to grasp at any prospect of security, familiarity, or continuity with the past.

Fear is never a good reason to get married. I think your DD needs to find her feet, get comfortable as an independent working adult, live alone, pay her way, get a promotion or two, and especially she needs to leave one job and go to another be able to deliberately leave one thing behind and move on, in other words before she makes the move to marriage.

I read somewhere you should marry someone who gives you the feeling you get when your food comes towards you in a restaurant. No one makes me feel that good! **
**
If I went for this criteria I would have married someone who made me feel anxious that I'd made the wrong choice!

judo, FWIW, as someone with presumably the same worldview as DD, I don't think you are coming across as negative, just appropriately concerned and lovingly worried! - not a PA, a genuine one!

Italian's idea of a short term mission trip or a holiday ( [[http://www.oakhall.co.uk/ Oak Hall]] do good Christian based holidays and DH and I went on a couple of them before we got married, which was nice) is a great one.

If they have been at the same uni and in and out of each other's houses for the last 3 years, then they will have seen how the other lived, heard from flatmates about their foibles.

You are wise to be concerned. If they are involved in a church like a one I have seen where this is the norm it is very likely that she will be expected to subhe gate herself to her husband, promise to obey him and despite all common sense be the homemaker. These modern Christian union type churches put feminism back in the 18th century. It may not be like that at all and hopefully they will do marriage prep but if it's done by their church it will simply reinforce the same messages and not get to the heart of what it is to be married and live as a partnership. I hope I am wrong for your daughters sake.

In the good old CofE, Pilgit?

This is an interesting thread, having recently been to a wedding of two Christians who's main motivation for marrying seems to be that they want to live together.
As a couple they don't seem suited at all and the wedding seemed very out of the blue. I really can't understand the ruling of 'no sex before marriage' as it's so dated and achieves nothing really.
I can't help but wonder what the church marriage classes really do to be helpful as their perception of the real world is so skewed.
Sorry this isn't helpful OP I'd be exactly the same in your position. Hopefully she may change her mind over the coming months.

I got married at 20, sort of a long distance relationship (we only saw each other once a week for a long time), didn't live together first - all was well.

I don't subscribe to the view that you need to live with someone first before knowing if you are compatible.

I knew a RC priest many years ago in university through a course I took. He is now a cleric-academic specialising in an arcane subject. A nice man, extremely bright, a few years older than me. Anyway, my friends and I were all sitting around chatting and getting to the bottom of various mysteries of priestly life, how someone could make the decision to become a priest at age 18, etc. -- mostly our chat was about celibacy, and of course that led to aspects of the RC church teaching on pre-marital sex. The priest said he had counselled many scrupulous couples who had approached him, and couples he had done pre-marriage courses with to just go ahead and have sex, and not to plan marriage as they were not ready for the reality of that, or at least not ready to embark on that with the partners they just wanted to have sex with.

Marriage outside of a Christian context is not a massively successful venture in our culture - I'm not sure why most people would want their children to do it the way they did, given that their own marriage may very well not have worked out.

Marriage prep courses tend to be very good, actually. There are great resources for churches to use and the topics covered relate to most of the problems discussed on mumsnet - money, sex, in-laws, work, household chores, children. It's exhausting and is designed to spotlight the weak points; the church tries to weed out the marriages that won't work before they happen.

I would rather see my DD in the position of the OP's DD (and I have family members in very happy, very modern marriages who did exactly the same thing) than lurch around in the disaster dating scenarios described on the relationships board.

mathanxiety Think you got a rogue one there.

What FoxInTheDesert and lostinmiddlemarch are saying. (Especially lostinmiddlemarch's last comment to mathanxiety - mathanxiety, unlike in the CoE, which has no doctrinal unity or uniformity, in the RC church it's what the Church teaches, not the individual priest).

I'm actually quite shocked at how many posters find "the religious element" and not having sex before marriage "worrying".

OP, if they have been together for 3 years, it's hardly rushing.
Also, the CoE has no definitive doctrine, in other words everyone can believe what they want. There is even a group of atheist "priests" in the CoE. Given this, they will be able to get divorced - if this is what you are worrying about.

I'm amazed 23 is seen as young. Most people in my area (I'm not from here) gave had kids by then.

I'd much rather avoid the moving in together before marriage scenario personally.

'I think your DD needs to find her feet, get comfortable as an independent working adult, live alone, pay her way, get a promotion or two, and especially she needs to leave one job and go to another be able to deliberately leave one thing behind and move on, in other words before she makes the move to marriage.'

Doesn't matter what you think. It matters what she thinks. And she thinks she wants to marry this guy. In a year.

Plenty of people don't 'find their feet', or live alone before marriage, or have what others consider an ideal adult trajectory in life, yet marry and are happy.

If I were 22 and I read stuff like this that my mother posted about me on the internet, I'd be extremely hurt to say the least.

I was an adult by then, a woman and not a child.

Plenty of people reading this have already had a child, or more, by this age.

It's hardly a teenager here.

You've said she is sensible; ultimately, you have to accept she's grown up and let go now.

I married my DH who was 22 at the time, when I was 18. We were both serving in the forces at the time. We did a fab marriage prep course with the Padre at DH's RAF station. I was a bit sceptical at first, thinking it would just be some old bloke, blarring on about what God expects of us....
In fact, it was really helpful for both of us. It was a very casual setting, with very "real life" questions and discussions. Maybe it would be a good place to start for your DD and her DP?

My dd is engaged she is 22 they dont live together yet saving for a house. If your dd is religious they might not want to stay over night live together and im not sure what no spark means

I like loads of others had a baby at 22 i got married when i was 25 she isnt a teenager as a pp pointed out she is a grown woman making her own choices

Be happy for them, support and maintain the loving environment that is the foundation for the strong, open relationship you have with your daughter now.

It would also be wise to talk to your daughter about sex. Maybe speak to a nurse or sexual health worker for ideas about how to broach the subject and what to discuss (or see if a local clinic has any advice on their website).

'It would also be wise to talk to your daughter about sex. '

She's 22, not 10. I'm sure she knows how it all works. She's chosing to wait until marriage to have sex, not closing up her vagina for all time.

This is so sad. If your dd wants to do things in what she thinks of as 'the right way' (no sex before marriage, no living together) then why not be happy for her?