DD (22) surprise engagement...worried

[JudoJelly]

My DD is engaged, she is 22. She has been with him for 3 years since they met at the start of uni. They want to marry next christmas. They have never stayed overnight together or been on holiday and refuse to move in together before marriage. She has just got a reasonably well-paid job and we are helping her buy a flat but he is struggling to find a job. I knew they were considering marriage (they are both religious but DH and I are not) but didn't realise it would happen so soon. I have always felt living together for a few years and getting careers sorted was wise.
I'm concerned there is no real spark. They see each other every few weekends (DD is living in our hometown, he is living at their old uni town). DD seems to love the idea of it all and security of being 'sorted' (her words) but I just don't see real, passionate love and excitement. His upbringing and what he wants in life is very different from DDs but she says they'll work it out. It all is very rushed. Apart from church friends, none of DDs friends are engaged. Some have boyfriends but marriage is definitely not on the cards anytime soon!
If this was 4-5 years time and they had lived together (or even just been on holiday or generally seen that they can cope with extended periods of time together) then I'd be overjoyed. I don't believe he isn't 'the one' for her, I just don't think the time is right or see the rush.
Obviously they are adults and can do as they wish. I would not intervene and stop this but words of wisdom/advice would be useful. DD is generally very sensible and open but I know I need to tread carefully.

If they are religious they are bound to have pre wedding couples counselling, make sure they go to all sessions. From memory,as it was over 20 years ago, it covers everything from sex, kids, money and is designed to check compatibility. You could talk that through with her afterwards but before tge wedding.

All I can say is I see your concern, hope it all works out

Your saying he wants different things in life to her is a concern, as is her saying they will work it out.

What different things? And when will they work it out?

It's going to be very difficult to work out some differences after they are married.

For example if one of them wants children and the other doesn't. You can't 'work that out' by going ahead now and hoping someone changes their mind later on.

Or, as a boyfriend of mine once expected, I would give up work if we got married because "his mother doesn't go to work and talk to people" so he didn't think his wife should either. He became an ex-boyfriend very quickly after saying that.

Or if one of them wants to travel for an extended time, or work abroad for a time, or emigrate, and the other wants to stay exactly where they are with nothing more adventurous than a package holiday every now and again.

There are lots of things that could cause problems later on in life, how to raise children, how to manage finances, a whole long list of things, and if they need to be 'worked out' then the time to do that is before the wedding, not after it.

I wouldn't be too pleased either I'd be horrified but it really is up to her and I'm sure she has given it plenty of thought. You could argue that it shows the strength of their relationship that they have managed to maintain it despite not seeing each other too often I'm trying to be positive here

All you can do is be fake happy for her, try and have some chats and try and sort out a deed of trust for your contribution to her flat.

It may all work out ok. The fact that they are not all love'y dove'y doesn't mean that much.

it won't be to conceal a pregnancy as someone suggests, with a year to the wedding this really wouldn't work!!

if your daughter is mature enough to marry she needs to have solid answers to the following questions:

• what is his plan to earn money? Jobs don't grow on trees, what's he doing to improve his chances?
• what protects her if it doesn't work out - is that flat in just her name? (no, it is not 'morbid' to think of this - it is checking that the ship has lifeboats before you set sail)
• is she clear on the difference between a big frilly frock party and an actual marriage?
• does she know that marriage does not give security, except in some legal and financial ways in the event of a split?

and the excellent points made about shared ambitions regarding work, kids, travel etc. most of us don't know those answers at 22 which is why marrying young is so chancy.

I'm "religious", DH and I waited for marriage before having sex or living together. We'd been on holidays together but never stayed or slept in the same room. We had known each other about 2 years before getting married and it seems to be working out okay!

To get married at our church, an older, more experienced couple do marriage prep with the engaged couple, going through issues like shared aims, children, work, finances (so covering things like here - not exactly that sheet but it was the closest thing I could find on a quick Google www.desiringgod.org/articles/questions-to-ask-when-preparing-for-marriage).

So that doesn't concern me itself, but the thing you said that did was, "what he wants in life is very different from DDs." Marriage isn't going to sort that out and she needs to think about how the future is actually going to look if that's the case.

Legally protect your investment in her flat.

99% sure she isn't pregnant! I had a very light chat with her and just said it is a surprise to us and he is lovely and tried to get light on the WHY bit! She said its got to the point their relationship can't progress and they want to live together. She thinks she is ready and has been encouraged at church by others.
I honestly think she is a little brainwashed/fantasizing having been to some young christian weddings of others at the church. They are all very good looking and promote this image of it (in their community) being quite cool...

I am glad others can see my reason for being worried.
She went to a top uni, is bright and in a professional job. She has a lot of potential but her aims seems to be being a housewife.. no problem if she was marrying someone able to support her in that! He is job hunting but graduated in a tricky field with less than desirable qualification levels.
I have been aware of her future plans/wishes over the last few years but not seen it as what would be coming round the corner any day...
Other DC are the opposites, so career orientated and cringe at the thought of marriage before living together and being 27+. I know it was the norm before to marry young and pre-living together, but now that is certainly not the norm!

Flat is in her name. But DH is looking into it...
I really don't know how to go forward. Our relationship with her is precious and I am not going to be the mother who doesn't turn up at the wedding. But I am worried for her.

If there are siblings, would they then be able to take her out and about, meet nice people, and ask her testing questions like what does she do if she's stuck with kids, little work experience and a low-earning husband who wants her to stay at home, etc, etc.

So the flat's in her name, so unless you have a legal agreement she can presumably choose to marry with no pre-nup or whatever. Eek.

Are you concerned that she might quit work even before ttc DC?

Generations of couples have married without living together first or having sex. Doing either doesn't guarantee a happy marriage.

She is very young, though, and that would worry me more that the other things. If they are religious, many pastors require that a couple go through pre-marriage counseling before they can be married in the church. My auntie had to go through 6 weeks of counseling. She and her fiancé were in their 60s and both had been widowed after long first marriages! They thought it was pretty funny. Until it brought up some things they hadn't thought about.

You could always look into the Alpha marriage course, and discuss it with her. It's generally run by churches, but can be done from a non-religious point of view.

I think siblings will be very good at such questions but need to be careful to not let things explode as she is quite defensive about it/her religious views. I have told siblings for now to keep peace and save their views while DH and I discuss but older DD (25) is especially raging with concern and feels DD in question is mad.
We have had to tread carefully over the years as we are a family of very unreligious people with one very religious DD!
In terms of the different expectations, DD says they have discussed the future and want the same thing (both work for a few years, babies, she doesn't work, live in similar area to where we are now (pretty wealthy area not much hope of them affording it!) and want to bring up DC with their beliefs)
I just think it is the finer details which are missing and the job prospects, her seeming to actually want to spend time with him/his family etc.

As I say, honestly if she came to me in 5 years with the same bloke but him having a career sorted and them being more flexible in terms of plans but seeming more on the same page...then I'd be delighted.

I married at 23 after 2 and a half years of what had mostly been an inter-country relationship (bar the first six months or so) and only moving in together 2 months before the wedding. 15 years and 3 dc later, we are very happy. But I don't think I'd be happy either at the circumstances you describe. I think it's the traditional emphasis which seems to be coming through in the religious aspect of all this which makes me so. Dh and I were clear on both pursuing our career paths side by side, although we were both still students when we married; it sounds a little as if this relationship (not necessarily he as such, but the whole context) might be clipping her wings. Conversely, I would also be worried in this case that, if they marry and he struggles to find a job, she will be supporting him long-term.

One thing you really mustn't (and I'm sure won't) do it try to lay down the law, be ostentatiously upset or issue ultimatums. Mine did it to me. I now don't see them. Be there for her, give her things to think about that come from outside the church circle, and let her know that you are there for her whatever happens and that the most valuable thing she can do is listen to her instincts - her inner voice, if you like, which is there under everyone else's noise.

What is her position on divorce?

I would be less worried about her getting married if she was comfortable that if it didnt work out they could divorce.

Far from ideal but - the idea of my daughter being trapped in a dull or abusive or unsatisfying marriage because her religion did not accept divorce would haunt me....

Has she said anything about DC - if the marriage didn't work out then a divorce with kids is a whole lot worse than a divorce without kids.

So you are o.k with them living together, having sex, which would be against THEIR values. Look at the number of threads on here from women who have lived together, had kids, and then they are surprised the guy won't marry them. At least your daughter wants to uphold the teachings of her religion, you should have respect for that in stead of wanting her to do what goes against it. If the guy doesn't have a job now, doesn't mean he won't in the near future, and possibly the reason they are waiting another year to get married.

Why can't people respect that young people want to do things the right way? Be happy she's got a guy that doesn't just want to get in her pants. Just because you chose not to be religious doesn't mean she needs to do the same.

Agree in doing a church wedding preparation course, which might help. The two of them also need to sit down and talk about future goals, career plans, where they want to live, whether they want children and so on... and thrash these issues out if they are planning to get married.

However... I was younger, got engaged at 20 to a man six years older (for similar reasons to your DD), and we married when were 22 and 28. My mum thought it was very young, and that he wasn't the right one, but she didn't understand that I wanted someone steady, not exciting, and that I never wanted to go out partying or travel the world. I'm happy to report that we are still together. Been together 20 years, married for 16 and have two lovely DDs.

You can talk to her about why she loves him , what she wants form life and marriage and just engage without moral judgements.

It would not be responsible for him to marry if he could not find a job, how would they live, starting out on one salary nowadays seems impossible. You don't need to tell your dd that but you can help her join the dots.

I am 'religious' (Christian) I did sleep with someone before marriage, but not my dh! Long story, I had a time of not being so religious.

Our marriage is fine and it all worked out but we were 30 something not 20 something and I've told my own dd what she does re sex before marriage is her own choice.

Living together doesn't guarantee that you will only marry the right one. Lots of marriages fail and the majority of those people have lived or at least slept together before marriage.

May I ask what kind of church (domination) they go to, please? We are C of E which tends to be a bit more liberal minded in senses than some other denominations.

Where they both 'religious' before they met each other?

Last question, do they equally feel the same for each other?

All the best, stay calm, don't alienate her (or him); even if they marry and divorce later, it's not the end of the world,. Most of all, as you know, it's not your choice. But you are right (IMHO) to be at least a little concerned.

Fox
I am more concerned that they have never spent more than 10 hours together and the majority of the time they see each other every 3rd week for about 5 hours. It isn't about the not sleeping together/living together, more the quantity of time and worry if they are actually a match.
I am happy he doesn't want to get in her pants and can cope with that and see it is minor compared to the fact they will agree to spend their lives together before really knowing what they want, if they are truly compatible and before he has a job lined up or she has progressed in her career...
Yes I am glad she knows what her beliefs are and is sticking to them even if her family don't share those beliefs.. I admire her for the courage that takes..
BUT ultimately I see things with a common sense hat too and this doesn't sit right!!

Living together first has been shown to have no effect on the marriage later on. She's 22, not 17, and won't be married till 23! That's not that young and a year long engagement is far from rushing it or a 'surprise'.

I'd be most worried about his not having a job. It's her life and for some people the whole 'passion' and 'spark' thing isn't for them. I wasted my 20s and early 30s on chasing such bunkum. It was entirely unsuitable for me. I wish I hadn't wasted so much time, I wound up not having as many children as I wanted because I was so old when I got started. And none of it was character building or lead to being more mature or any of that, it was just a total waste of my time.

My h and I married after knowing each other about 6 weeks. He was 24. I was 31. 14 years later, we're still very happy together and had 3 children.

You sound really negative and judgemental about her and the life she's chosen - her church, her decisions. Gees, she's hardly running off to become a jihadi bride!

I'd keep your thoughts to yourself and I hope she never finds out how you feel. I'd find that really hurtful.

What is he doing in the three weeks that he doesn't see her if he is not working? Just trying to work out what kind of lifestyle he has. Is he prepared to do any old job just to earn an income and get some experience? And like you say, it is quite worrying that they don't seem to know each other very well.

They also won't have shared their every conversation and thought with you. It's entirely possible they have discussed what they both want out of life at great length. Just because they don't see each other a lot doesn't mean they haven't been communicating.

They are both c of e. Both religious before uni, met through CU.
Choosing someone too quickly, too young and marrying is more risky than moving in together and learning to live together before marriage..
We will be there for her and do our best not to pass on negativity and to understand and then support this.
I have no idea how to breach our worries with her.
Thanks for all the comments. Challenging or agreeing - both are useful food for thought.