DD (22) surprise engagement...worried

[JudoJelly]

My DD is engaged, she is 22. She has been with him for 3 years since they met at the start of uni. They want to marry next christmas. They have never stayed overnight together or been on holiday and refuse to move in together before marriage. She has just got a reasonably well-paid job and we are helping her buy a flat but he is struggling to find a job. I knew they were considering marriage (they are both religious but DH and I are not) but didn't realise it would happen so soon. I have always felt living together for a few years and getting careers sorted was wise.
I'm concerned there is no real spark. They see each other every few weekends (DD is living in our hometown, he is living at their old uni town). DD seems to love the idea of it all and security of being 'sorted' (her words) but I just don't see real, passionate love and excitement. His upbringing and what he wants in life is very different from DDs but she says they'll work it out. It all is very rushed. Apart from church friends, none of DDs friends are engaged. Some have boyfriends but marriage is definitely not on the cards anytime soon!
If this was 4-5 years time and they had lived together (or even just been on holiday or generally seen that they can cope with extended periods of time together) then I'd be overjoyed. I don't believe he isn't 'the one' for her, I just don't think the time is right or see the rush.
Obviously they are adults and can do as they wish. I would not intervene and stop this but words of wisdom/advice would be useful. DD is generally very sensible and open but I know I need to tread carefully.

Why not be happy for her?... Because common sense and instinct tells me it is p potentially not a wise decision and more time and thought is needed.

Because there is a reason things have moved on in society..

Because I want my dd to marry with a feeling of confidence and celebration, not risk and apprehension

Your situation with ur dd is very similar to what is happening with my own dd. She's still at uni & has similar views to ur dd. You have to let them get on with it. I'm sure it will be fine.

K, well then, be unhappy. It won't change her mind.

You say she is sensible, well, she has to be let go to make her life, even if you think it's a mistake.

Stick to 'we're always there for you' and hold your tongue.

I got married at 25 in a very similar position to your DD - Im a christian and didn't live with my DH before getting married. My DH has struggled with his career and I have generally supported us financially. My parents aren't religious and i know there are lots of our life decisions that they probably don't understand or worried about. Equally they know that I'm sensible and it has meant the world to me how supportive they have been. We don't own a house and I don't know about the legalities or how you might want to protect your investment if you buy her a flat. My parents have given us money (for the wedding and since) without any strings attached and again that support and generosity has meant a lot to us. It sounds like you have a great relationship with your daughter and can have some really good conversations about what marriage is and how she's come to this decision but ultimately the best thing you can do it support her. Marriages last or go wrong for all manner of reasons, she doesn't sound like a reckless person and if you trust her judgement then that's all you can do.

I guess with regards to their future, finances, jobs etc. Lots of people do manage to get all their ducks in a row before getting married but similarly of lots of others don't and that's something they'll figure out together. Try not to worry too much :)

My auntie got married in very similar circumstances. She's the only religious member of our intelligible family. My grandparents and my mum (her sister) had similar concerns to you but none of them voiced those concerns, not knowing how to.

Fast forward 25 years and my uncle has recently left my aunt and it has come out that they never had a functional sexual relationship. She says they were throroughly sexually incompatible but by the time she found out it was too late. She says she wishes someone had tried to talk some sense into her about marrying a man she had never stayed overnight with or been on holiday with.

I knew some CU types from uni. Very into the abstinence before marriage thing. They were also very into the marriage prep courses etc which really do force couples to discuss their future hopes and dreams and worries in great detail.
I don't see the worry tbh. I also think they may well get divorced in time but personally I think that this marriage is less risky for your dds future than random sex outside marriage is and yet most of us chose the latter and risk contraceptive failure and single parenthood or coparenting win a relative stranger.

NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe Re I'm pretty sure CofE is okay with divorce, for the posters who are worrying about that, that's what in was invented for right? Not so, exactly... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wives_of_Henry_VIII "However, Henry did not "divorce" two wives, but rather had the marriages annulled. At the time, the laws relating to marriage were under the jurisdiction of canon law, and there was no divorce under canon law. Henry's marriage to Anne Boleyn was also annulled before her death. So if one accepts the courts' finding that the annulled marriages had never existed, Henry only had three wives—Seymour, Howard and Parr."

But I digress...

And yes, you will get women in the C of E, and men, who believe in things like wives submitting to their husbands. But then generally the church does not teach a specific line and this makes it much easier for people to work out what they think and how they interpret scripture etc. A most now do not believe in wives submitting as the Bible also says 'submit yourselves one to another' or words to that affect.

So one question the Op could ask is if the two believe the same things about scripture and will embrace life difficulties in the same way. My dh and I talked about kids, adoption and lots of other stuff in the early days to see we both felt the same.

Which we did...

OP you said up thread that they had very different world views/out look on life. If they are both very strong in their religious views then suerly they must have the same out look for key parts of life?

What specifically do you observe are their differences?

Because there is a reason things have moved on in society
Not all changes are good changes. Look at the number of threads appearing on MN where posters cry 'I've given him three children and he hasn't proposed'. Your dd doesn't have to face that.

Because I want my dd to marry with a feeling of confidence and celebration

Sounds like she is. Be happy and supportive, and be there to pick up the pieces if there are any

I married in 2000 after a whirlwind relationship, we only knew each other for 18 months before our wedding day. It's now more than 15 years on, two DC in tow. However, not without problems. DH up and left two years ago without reason or warning, but.... he had contracted a very, very bad virus which resulted in him becoming gravely ill and behaving totally out of character (I posted at time under a different username) He came home after recovery and things slowly came back to normal. So anything can happen, even a soap storyline! Just be happy for her and support her and be there for her.

Timelytess I'm not saying my views are move in and have kids just that I'd prefer my dc to live with their partners before marriage and test it out a bit as many of my older dcs friends who have flats in London do.
I am not saying I want dd to do this against her beliefs, just that I am concerned a marriage at 22 is very early and it's come quite out of the blue for us as it is not something I've come across before and I didn't consider her and her boyfriend to be that 'in love' or at a stage marriage was on the cards. None of her friends or older dds friends from around here have married or are anywhere near marriage. Hence the surprise and worry.
Thanks again for the replies. We will talk to dd but be careful not to express any negativity and ultimately trust she knows what is right for her.

'I married in 2000 after a whirlwind relationship, we only knew each other for 18 months before our wedding day.'

That's a whirlwind? I met DH around end of April. We married about 4 weeks later, and that only because there's a 2 week wait to marry in Scotland. DD1 was born 13 months later.

Very true, timely. There are so very many people who see having a child with someone as less of a commitment than marriage.

To add while dd and her fiancé are c of e they attend non c of e more modern(?) churches .. Reformed church? Sorry I'm not knowledgable on this!

I can't see what you can do really, but it does sound as though she's generally sensible and as long as her career steams on that's some ongoing ability to get herself out of a mess.

You remind me of my family somehow. I got married at 21 to a religious man from a different culture and my staunchly atheist family was horrified. I ended up having a registry office with no family, and I only told them about it years later. I have absolutely no regrets about it, it was the right thing for me and my husband and I am sure it saved me years of anguish. My relationship with my mother took time to recover and we are now close, although there is a lot I can never share with her as we have such different outlooks on life. This whole experience made me realise that my leftist, educated parents were actually pretty intolerant of people choosing different lifestyles, and while they were perfectly happy for me to spend nights out partying and having random boyfriends, marriage and faith were things that they really despised. They have mellowed since. I think you need to be careful not to alienate your daughter, who sounds like a sensible young adult making her own choices. Incidentally I have loads of friends from similar backgrounds who have made the same choices. We just don't identify with the previous generation of women and have different goals. If it was my daughter, I wouldn't look for 'advice' online, I would respect her wishes and try to offer sincere congratulations.

I honestly don't see the problem at all except him not working yet. Hopefully he will find something soon. I'm not religious at all but if that's who she is then that's who she is. I actually think the pre marriage counselling people have described on here that they will get sounds a great thing and should be given to everyone. Maybe the reason they aren't seeing each other so much just now is to try to remain celibate and not give in to temptation.

She sounds very sensible and bright and yes, she has a good job but becoming a housewife in a few years isn't a bad thing if that's what she wants, which it is.

Its her life and you have to let her live it. Iv definitely made choices my parents voiced their concerns and disappointment about. One, having my dd at 18. Two, getting back with my partner after we split up when I was pregnant.

However, we are now 30, married very, very happily with three children and he has a successful business whilst I this year gave up my job to stay at home. I can't imagine being any happier had I done what they wnated and I'd defo of had major regret if I'd had an abortion like my dad wanted and not had my daughter.

You can give her positive advice, but essentially she is an adult who is free to make her own choices and you just need to respect and support that. She most definitely isn't young to get married and I'm surprised you say it came out of the blue after them being together for three heard and being religious. Its the next step really for them.

I can understand your concern about them not having holidayed or lived together etc. But at the end of the day, even people in relationships who have done that, split up.

I'm religious and married at 22. I moved countries to then live with my husband. We had been together 4 months. We are very happy.

My advice: Mind your own business. Your dd is an adult. Tbh I find the idea that a 22 year ok is incapable of making an adult decision quite patronizing.

OP, I don't know this piece of research personally so not trying to say this is gospel truth, but I think there is data to show that living together before marriage is not a successful indicator of how long the marriage will last after marriage.

She's not so very young, and it isn't a whirlwind romance. I assume they spent lots of time together at university.

You don't dislike or distrust her fiancé, which is positive, and hopefully he'll find a stable job soon.

Her goals are different than yours were at that age, and out of step with today's norms, but they're not necessarily "wrong". It would be more worrying if she were considering getting a flat and starting a family with one of those "I don't believe in marriage (not with you, anyway)" types. Lots of threads on here dealing with the fallout from those disasters!

I had two religious friends who suddenly got married at about this age. It became obvious some months after the marriage that she was pregnant at the time of the marriage. Are you sure this isn't the case?

The girl would have to be an elephant to be pregnant now and still pregnant next Christmas when they're getting married

Sorry, I have come across negative about her.

You didn't come across negatively at all!

I married in 2000 after a whirlwind relationship, we only knew each other for 18 months before our wedding day. It's now more than 15 years on, two DC in tow. However, not without problems. DH up and left two years ago without reason or warning, but.... he had contracted a very, very bad virus which resulted in him becoming gravely ill and behaving totally out of character (I posted at time under a different username) He came home after recovery and things slowly came back to normal. So anything can happen, even a soap storyline! Just be happy for her and support her and be there for her.

Ive thought about you so many times, and here you are

You knew your husband was acting out of character and nothing would shake your faith in him despite everyone doing their utmost to 'make you see sense'. You actually took quite a hammering from people.

Im so glad your life is back to normal now.

My eldest sister told my parents that she was getting married four months after she met her dh (in fact he asked my father for his permission!), and I think they got married six months after that. She was a few years older than the OP's dd, but still fairly young really. Oh and he wasn't in work either (had just come out of the army). Essentially they were matched together by their vicar. They are still together more than 25 years later so I guess he was good at match making, but I think if you are very religious and believe that God has told you to get married then you aren't going to pay very much attention to anyone else are you?