Am I completely stupid to even consider reconciling with husband who raped me?

[snowflake02]

Just that really. I have posted here so many times and found the support unbelievably helpful. But here I am again. Is it now too late for him to apologise and accept what he did? (Original thread here)
Am I crazy for even wondering if we could put things back together? Are some things just unforgiveable? Or am I overreacting? I know I have asked before but I am still struggling to accept that it was the R word.

[myfirstandonlylove]

I should start by saying I am a man and it is inconceivable that this apology for a human being did not know what he was doing. If a person on even one occasion has thought that their own sexual satisfaction is more important than the right of the other person to control their own body and not to be violated in this way, they are beyond redemption. I am so very very sorry that you have experienced this and under no circumstances think you are being stupid reconsidering, but I do think it would incontrovertibly be the wrong decision. I wonder for example how you would feel were your taking him back give him an emotional carte blanche in his head to do what he wants sexually and then one day you find out he has violated another woman? I am a straight man, and I can tell you 100% there are NO grey areas regarding consent, and no decent man would even find it possible to become sexually aroused without the other person showing that they too wanted to participate. This is a hard thing for me to write as I know 3 people 2 female 1 male who have each suffered this kind of assault from other men. It is no exaggeration to say I am ashamed to be a man when I think of what they and you have suffered. But please please think of your children and their right not to have the worst kind of criminal in their lives as they grow up. My heart goes out to you so much.

[venusandmars]

snowflake my family were similar when I left my exh (more than 20 years ago). They repeatedly told me I should 'work on it' or 'compromise' or remember that were in it for better or worse... I have subsequently learnt that the most vocal had been in a violent and abusive relationship for years - so of course in her view I should have accepted the apology !!

My exh and I went to counselling and he said "the way you described that [incident] made it sound like I raped you". I said "yes, you did." (which incidentally felt very empowering) but he still couldn't understand that he HAD raped me, and that it wasn't just that I felt as though I'd been raped.

My exh continued to describe me as frigid, and he hoped that counselling would help me be less frigid (we only had sex 3 or 4 times a week). I was desperately, desperately unhappy. I felt I had little choice about having sex and yet when I called "NO" to the relationship I was vilified by my family and I felt such awful guilt.

And yet my friends said I re-emerged with my funny, quirky personality, I felt liberated, I felt able to resume my career. I thrived without him.

OP, please do not let him drag you back into this. He either understand what he did and he does not care (enough); or he does not understand and therefore can not be trusted.

Now (many years after out break up) my dc have a good relationship with their dad. I have no idea whether they blame me for the split - I don't want to discuss the background with them - they have got over their initial pain at us splitting up. They accept the situation.

Please, do not reconcile with someone who raped you.

[Offred]

Yes my parents colluded with my abusive XP who raped me. They told him to take me to family court etc (DV provisions were put in place and case was thrown out because he had brought it without any legal justification). They went for drinks with him, told him I had always been bad.

They tried to do the same with XH.

Families do not always act in the way they should.

[shandybass]

Did you tell your families and children about the rape? I am in a similar position but cannot bring myself to say Dh raped me. It seems disloyal and cruel to tell the children. And yet no one will believe me as they think he's great and he is mainly. It was hard but I've told him. He doesn't see it as rape and switches between it being a misunderstanding to not remembering. It was a case of we were at it and I said I'd had enough but he ignored me to the point when I had to use considerable strength to push him off me having tried a few gentle pushes. He had been drinking.
We haven't had sex for 9 months and he says he can't carry on like this. I've said I don't know how else to carry on.
Sorry to go on just wondering how others have managed.

[Offred]

A rape counsellor once told me 'no-one has a right to know about this. It is your experience. You be completely selfish about it. You only tell someone because YOU want to AND because you are sure they will support you and it will benefit you" it really stuck with me that - she is absolutely right.

[NameChange30]

Hi OP,

You're not stupid at all. You've been through a lot. You're being very strong and brave in telling him to leave and doing some work in your own mind about what is and isn't acceptable.

I was pleased to read that you've spoken to Rape Crisis and are trying to get counselling through them - hope it works out.
Please also call Women's Aid, I'm sure they will offer good advice and they might provide counselling as well, not sure but it's worth asking.
You could also look up Lundy Bancroft's books.

Lastly, I think your family are completely wrong. Is there anyone else you could talk to, a close friend or something, who might be more likely to support you?

[Im0gen]

Why don't you go to the police together and he can give a statement ? Then they can tell you if it was a misunderstanding .

[NameChange30]

Up thread, you said something about what your children want. The thing is, they might want their parents to stay together, but what they don't understand yet (because they're only children) is that they need their parents to be apart. Otherwise the relarionship model they learn will be an abusive one. And what they really need, of course, is parents who are happy and healthy - which I don't think you can be with him.

[NameChange30]

I think Hissy's gives very good advice about how to deal with the children (in her post on 07/11 at 09.05)

I expect that having been in an abusive relationship for so long, you're so used to being blamed that even your children are blaming you. But you need to assert yourself and explain in an age-appropriate way.

[PreemptiveSalvageEngineer]

Just wanted to weigh in with:

yes it was rape,

no, you're not stupid, just sweet and loving and hopeful and don't waste another precious speck of yourself on that rapist or your ghastly FOO.

"I'm sorry you feel that way" is classic non-apology.

[snowflake02]

Thank you everyone, I really appreciate all the responses.

I'm really sorry to hear of others in a similar situation, it is amazing what people are prepared to excuse.

shandybass my family know now, they didn't at the time. I told them in the hope that they would then support my decision to ask him to leave, but it didn't quite work out that way. I hope I never have to tell my children. I'm sorry for what you are going through.

Im0gen I would love to see the look on his face if I suggested that!

myfirstandonlylove thank you for such a lovely message. It is good to hear a male opinion and to know that not all men think the same way.

ShebaShimmyShake and PreemptiveSalvageEngineer thank you, it really helps to know that I am not wrong in how I am interpreting his 'apology'.

[manana21]

snowflake - I agree with all the comments about the non-apology and that your family is wrong not to back you in leaving. Families can be totally wrong - only you have to live it. Of course it's easier for them all, including yours, to pretend it never happened or that you're being overly dramatic, but it did happen and you can't un-know that. You are the one, when you're old, that has to feel you made good decisions with your life, and spending any more time with a scum bag that raped you can't be something you want to seriously contemplate? Over and above anything else, can you really love him again? The way all of your family and him are reacting to this and minimizing, I feel more strongly for your DC's sake too, you need to make a stand about what you feel counting. Even if the DC never do know.

[snowflake02]

No, I'm not sure I could ever love him again. I will always care about him, but I'm not sure it could ever be more than that now.

I think my family are mainly focused on the children and feel that us staying together if at all possible is best for them as they will never know what happened and that people can forgive anything if they want to.

I also get the impression that if he had hit me they would be likely to think differently as that is more serious in their eyes and that while it might technically be rape, as were are married its not really that bad as long as it never happens again.

[NameChange30]

Their attitude is so wrong on every level that I don't even know where to start.

[manana21]

No I can't see how you could love him when he's done that. So I can't see how it's best for your DC - there could be no real emotional warmth between you and DH, that's not a normal healthy situation. Your p don't understand, it didn't happen to them. TBH it sounds as though you have a lot of people in your life that minimize you and don't back you up, don't put up with it anymore. My mum says unkind things sometimes and I pull her up on it now, it is a lot better than the squashed down feelings I used to have before. Tell your parents he raped you, it does matter, you are getting divorced and they need to back you up, get behind you and help your DC with the transition. And your DC's views on who's fault this all is are worthless because you are necessarily protecting them, so even though it hurts, you're doing the right thing.

[YesICanHearYouClemFandango]

I wish I could give you a hug snowflake

I've read both threads fully since I last posted. Everything in my original post still stands, but since then you have also told us that your family think you should get back with him, and that actually made me cry.

Your family have issues, to put it politely. It doesn't change the seriousness of what your DH has done one iota. Your family are WRONG. On so many levels. Please know that this is about them and their issues, and not really about you and what happened.

So, ignore your family, obviously. If you need to go NC with them for a while in order to get the space you need to sort your head out a bit and process what you've gone through, do it without a second's hesitation. I really hope you are able to access some counselling soon. I think it will help you a lot. (Speaking from experience).

FWIW I've got quite a difficult relationship with some of my family but my god, if they ever suggested what your family have suggested...my heart goes out to you

[ShebaShimmyShake]

Your family are dangerous morons. Rape within marriage has been a crime since 1991 (unbelievable that it took so long, but better late than never). And don't get me started on the idea that it's somehow less violent and horrendous than hitting you. I'd much rather be slapped in the face than raped.

I promise you, if he is capable of abusing you he is capable of abusing his daughter, and of teaching his son, one way or another, that violence against women is acceptable.

[snowflake02]

Thank you YesICanHearYouClemFandango and ShebaShimmyShake, it is very hard that they don't seem to understand and to my mind are minimising everything. It is even more upsetting given what they do work wise that they don't get it and it has really contributed to me feeling that I am just over reacting and that if I could just forgive him then everything would be ok.

[UncertainSmile]

I'm so sorry that your family have failed you when you really needed them.

[PreemptiveSalvageEngineer]

snowflake, I won't ask what your parents do, but what you say makes that all the more shameful. And obviously that makes it harder for you to believe yourself: they're professionals, after all, how can they possibly be wrong?

Listen. I've read somewhere that a staggeringly high proportion of doctors smoke. Some coppers are the worst for abuse and law-breaking. There's no accounting for idiots, really.

The damage to your children by staying with an abuser far FAR outweigh the benefits. And your parents sound more dysfunctional and damaging with everything further you tell us. At very least don't let them take your courage away. But you might have to reduce contact with them if they continue to try to drag you down.

Time and again we see on these relationships that the abused person had parents who had been less than supportive, thereby laying the foundation for her adult life. And the worst thing the abused can to is allow it to go down yetanother generation.

You have done an incredibly strong thing in leaving your STBX. You have taken steps to break the cycle. Your DCs stand a very good chance of being first generation abuse-free. Stay strong, for them.

[YesICanHearYouClemFandango]

I agree with everything PreemptiveSalvageEngineer said. Snowflake, please believe me when I say that this is about them, not you. Who knows why they hold the opinions they do. But that's all they are. Opinions. The facts remain, and the fact is you were raped. Repeatedly. By the person you are theoretically supposed to be able to trust with your life, and the lives of your children. It is madness to suggest that a reconciliation would be in ANYBODY'S best interests other than your husband's. You have done an amazing thing leaving him and you are so much stronger than you realise. Please put yourself first. I know you want to put your children first, and really you are because this is definitely what they need you to do, even though they're too young to realise this. But of course it doesn't seem quite so straightforward at the moment because your head's in the shed (understandably) and you're getting bad (and dangerous) advice from your family. So concentrate on what you know you need to do for yourself. You should be really proud of yourself.

[adorably2014]

It's broken, snowflake. I totally get the doubt, the hope that he might realise he did wrong. My stbx said sorry. I hoped he meant it. He didn't, in fact he got a lot more angry and nasty the following times.

If your children see your ex very often, I'd say him and his family (maybe even yours) are saying things that your kids are picking up on. If they're still very young is it really their opinion or them repeating the opinion of what they see as the majority? My ex said blatantly awful things about me to the children. My youngest then said some awful stuff to me and was quite angry. Your ex might not necessarily be blatant but if he's having a pity party each time they see him and everyone else around supports him and that idea, it could be doing damage regardless.

If you can't limit exposure to your ex/family, you need help to talk to your children about the divorce and get support for them. The one relationship you want to salvage from this is the one you have with them. Is your solicitor knowledgeable in DV situations like this? How far in the process are you? Have you contacted WA?

It sounds as if your ex is still trying to discuss the situation with you. It's not a criticism here but if that's the case, do you think it really helps you to churn it all round again? I didn't really know what I was doing when I first got legal advice and was told orders could be served, I took the advice and when my ex got served the non-mol it was like going cold turkey. Although I feel disgust and fear towards him, there was still a part of me that wished I could get him to acknowledge what he'd done and say sorry. The non-mol meant I couldn't contact him either, which in hindsight was the best thing because it gave me space from him. I'm saying all this not to suggest non-mol, but to say that you're divorcing, you need the space, so really he shouldn't be trying to draw you into discussions anymore. If he is, are there ways for you to change that?

Btw my mother thinks my stbxh is a lovely man and that it was all my fault. She thought that when she thought he'd hit me, and she still thinks that now I've told her. In fact even more so. It's mad.

[YesICanHearYouClemFandango]

I agree with adorably too. I've been in an abusive relationship as well. He didn't rape me, but there was plenty of physical/mental violence. My experience was the same - he would apologise and grovel and cry and tell me how much he loved me and I would forgive him until it happened again. It carried on until one night I was so terrified that I eventually called the police. We had broken up but he refused to accept it. He was outside my house, drunk out of his skull and coked off his tits, in the process of kicking my front door in and shouting that he was going to kill me. The police arrived just after he got into my house and up the stairs, thank god.

I won't try to pretend that it hasn't had a massive impact on me over the over the years, but I got through it. And you will get through this too. I have to say that in my experience the police were absolutely brilliant. They really helped me to break free, and the relief I felt when the court made a restraining order was immense.

Oh and I remember my mum at the time saying that she felt a bit sorry for him, because he was (no doubt still is) an alcoholic. That really hurt. I don't think she meant it to, but it did.

[snowflake02]

Thank you everyone. I do need to keep reminding myself that I am doing what my children need, rather than what they want, however hard that is for me to accept.

adorably2014 it is my fault that the situation us up for discussion as I started to waver because of guilt and self doubt. But deep down I do think it is broken and beyond repair.

I hadn't thought about what the children might be picking up on from my family. I don't actually have a solicitor as I can't afford one and I don't qualify for legal aid.

I'm sorry you didn't get the support you needed either.

YesICanHearYouClemFandango how terrifying for you. I'm not surprised your mums words hurt.

I'm sorry to hear that it seems to be quite common for families to not give the support that is so desperately needed.

[PreemptiveSalvageEngineer]

ICanHearYou and Adorably make excellent points. You might need to get tough about how contact goes. Maybe even consider counselling for the DCs. If either are school-age, I'd strongly suggest a quiet word with the safeguarding person at their school. You don't have to give all the details (but you're perfectly free to do so, if you wish!). Even a "simple" divorce may raise issues in a child that will want a bit of guiding - this certainly wouldn't be the first time they've had this issue in a student. But do mention (I'm cobbling here, based on what you say, pray forgive if I'm wrong) that they're coming back from contact with him (and ILs?) disturbed and confused, and they need a safe neutral third party to talk to. If you're even a smidgen worried, I would also not stint to mention that there was DV issues and you're concerned they witnessed it, or - well, you're not sure what, but can they keep an eye out.

If you haven't already, speak to your GP about your anxiety issues, and any concerns you have about your DCs' contact for them.

In short, get a paper trail going.

May I ask, OP, what have you done in terms of a solicitor? Is s/he ShitHot? Experienced in DV issues? If so, you're onto a good one. If not, you might want to think about finding a new one. I understand those referred by Women's Aid have the necessary skills.

And have you spoken with Rape Crisis yet? Had any counselling? How are you doing?