Am I completely stupid to even consider reconciling with husband who raped me?

[snowflake02]

Just that really. I have posted here so many times and found the support unbelievably helpful. But here I am again. Is it now too late for him to apologise and accept what he did? (Original thread here)
Am I crazy for even wondering if we could put things back together? Are some things just unforgiveable? Or am I overreacting? I know I have asked before but I am still struggling to accept that it was the R word.

[snowflake02]

Thank you, i find the support I get here is so helpful. I am very, very grateful.

[NameChange30]

You're not being selfish or unreasonable. You have nothing to feel guilty about. But I understand that it's hard to shake these feelings, because he's spent years and years conditioning you to feel them. It sounds like your family helped him out too
Please keep talking to the people who will support and reassure you - us, Women's Aid, a counsellor, a friend who will be understanding and supportive.

[snowflake02]

That's true. Just wish I could shake the guilt and the feeling that I am being selfish and unreasonable.

[NameChange30]

It's not worse. He is your partner. He is supposed to love and respect you. He is NEVER allowed to rape you.

[snowflake02]

I could never forgive that because that is worse, he is her Father.

[NameChange30]

There are some crimes that are unforgivable. Rape is one of them.
If he raped your daughter, would you expect her to forgive him? No? Then why should you?

[snowflake02]

The tea analogy is great, thank you.

I think he thinks I am being very unreasonable that I won't give it another try with him. Feeling sad and guilty.

[alphabook]

I have always remembered you as your story is one of the most horrific I've ever seen on MN, and my heart sank when I saw your post.

If you haven't heard of the tea analogy then look it up. He raped you and he knew exactly what he was doing. He isn't sorry and he isn't prepared to acknowledge what he did. He just wants to convince you (with the help of a therapist) that you are wrong and he is right.

You said yourself that you are doing what your children need, which is not necessarily that they want. You don't want them to grow up believing that it's normal for women to be afraid and on edge around their husbands.

[shandybass]

Hi. SmallLegsOrSmallEggs and snowflake you are so right in what you want is for them not to be that person. Dh has asked me what I want him to do and I honestly don't know and have told him that, as, I never thought this would happen to me. I know cliche!
But when I told him about the rape and why it had put me off being with him he said but I was just as bad as I'd pushed him before when I was mad with him and sleep deprived after the baby. Its so crap and yet worrying enough to wonder what he would say if it came to it.

[snowflake02]

SmallLegsOrSmallEggs thank you, this is so true the thing you want him to be is a man who isn't a rapist I guess that sums the problem up.

I don't feel very brave, it still feels like it can't be real.

[SmallLegsOrSmallEggs]

if he does now acknowledge what he did? Is it too late now after so much denial?

In short, yes.

He is either a rapist who admits he is a rapist or a rapist who denies he is a rapist but the one thing he cannot be now, the thing you want him to be is a man who isn't a rapist. You don't get former rapists.

But its not the what he is that is the problem. It's the why.

He does not see it as rape because he does not see you or any woman as an equal to him. Therefore his needs outweigh yours.

Whether he admits it or not changes nothing because in his head he is always more than you, better than, more real than you, more deserving than and more right than you.

This fundamentally fucked up view will never change.

Not matter what he says to you, what he believes will never change.

You cannot let your dcs make decisions about this for you. They are not in full possession of the facts. You are not ruining their lives.

op you have been incredibly brave. You haven't had the support you should have had. Hopefully RC and WA will come through for you soon.

[snowflake02]

Sadly I don't qualify because of the strange way they work out how much equity you have in your home (by their reckoning I have loads, which sadly is very far from the truth) and I have been unable to get through to Women's Aid the last few times I tried.

Thank you for explaining what would happen.

[YesICanHearYouClemFandango]

Just wanted to let you know that if you ever decide that you think your husband should be prosecuted, once charged he will either be remanded in custody or if allowed bail, will be under strict bail conditions not to contact you, either directly or via a third party. When the case is dealt with at court, you would almost definitely get a restraining order, even if he were to be found not guilty. And I know for a fact that family courts take domestic violence and sexual abuse very seriously indeed, and it is considered very carefully when deciding whether to allow child contact arrangements.

You say you don't have legal aid - did you tell them the full story when you applied for it? If not, I would imagine it might change things. Maybe you could contact Women's Aid for advice?

[snowflake02]

PreemptiveSalvageEngineer I have no solicitor. I paid for a some initial advice but then couldn't afford to continue.

I am in contact with the school, but they don't know any details and I don't think the children ever witnessed anything, but I imagine there was an atmosphere at times that they would have picked up on. Most of the damage was probably done by me shutting down after it happened, rather than anything they saw or overheard.

Rape Crisis have been in touch and they will update me hopefully by Monday on how long it will take for me to be allocated a counsellor.

I am doing better after reading all the responses, thank you.

[PreemptiveSalvageEngineer]

ICanHearYou and Adorably make excellent points. You might need to get tough about how contact goes. Maybe even consider counselling for the DCs. If either are school-age, I'd strongly suggest a quiet word with the safeguarding person at their school. You don't have to give all the details (but you're perfectly free to do so, if you wish!). Even a "simple" divorce may raise issues in a child that will want a bit of guiding - this certainly wouldn't be the first time they've had this issue in a student. But do mention (I'm cobbling here, based on what you say, pray forgive if I'm wrong) that they're coming back from contact with him (and ILs?) disturbed and confused, and they need a safe neutral third party to talk to. If you're even a smidgen worried, I would also not stint to mention that there was DV issues and you're concerned they witnessed it, or - well, you're not sure what, but can they keep an eye out.

If you haven't already, speak to your GP about your anxiety issues, and any concerns you have about your DCs' contact for them.

In short, get a paper trail going.

May I ask, OP, what have you done in terms of a solicitor? Is s/he ShitHot? Experienced in DV issues? If so, you're onto a good one. If not, you might want to think about finding a new one. I understand those referred by Women's Aid have the necessary skills.

And have you spoken with Rape Crisis yet? Had any counselling? How are you doing?

[snowflake02]

Thank you everyone. I do need to keep reminding myself that I am doing what my children need, rather than what they want, however hard that is for me to accept.

adorably2014 it is my fault that the situation us up for discussion as I started to waver because of guilt and self doubt. But deep down I do think it is broken and beyond repair.

I hadn't thought about what the children might be picking up on from my family. I don't actually have a solicitor as I can't afford one and I don't qualify for legal aid.

I'm sorry you didn't get the support you needed either.

YesICanHearYouClemFandango how terrifying for you. I'm not surprised your mums words hurt.

I'm sorry to hear that it seems to be quite common for families to not give the support that is so desperately needed.

[YesICanHearYouClemFandango]

I agree with adorably too. I've been in an abusive relationship as well. He didn't rape me, but there was plenty of physical/mental violence. My experience was the same - he would apologise and grovel and cry and tell me how much he loved me and I would forgive him until it happened again. It carried on until one night I was so terrified that I eventually called the police. We had broken up but he refused to accept it. He was outside my house, drunk out of his skull and coked off his tits, in the process of kicking my front door in and shouting that he was going to kill me. The police arrived just after he got into my house and up the stairs, thank god.

I won't try to pretend that it hasn't had a massive impact on me over the over the years, but I got through it. And you will get through this too. I have to say that in my experience the police were absolutely brilliant. They really helped me to break free, and the relief I felt when the court made a restraining order was immense.

Oh and I remember my mum at the time saying that she felt a bit sorry for him, because he was (no doubt still is) an alcoholic. That really hurt. I don't think she meant it to, but it did.

[adorably2014]

It's broken, snowflake. I totally get the doubt, the hope that he might realise he did wrong. My stbx said sorry. I hoped he meant it. He didn't, in fact he got a lot more angry and nasty the following times.

If your children see your ex very often, I'd say him and his family (maybe even yours) are saying things that your kids are picking up on. If they're still very young is it really their opinion or them repeating the opinion of what they see as the majority? My ex said blatantly awful things about me to the children. My youngest then said some awful stuff to me and was quite angry. Your ex might not necessarily be blatant but if he's having a pity party each time they see him and everyone else around supports him and that idea, it could be doing damage regardless.

If you can't limit exposure to your ex/family, you need help to talk to your children about the divorce and get support for them. The one relationship you want to salvage from this is the one you have with them. Is your solicitor knowledgeable in DV situations like this? How far in the process are you? Have you contacted WA?

It sounds as if your ex is still trying to discuss the situation with you. It's not a criticism here but if that's the case, do you think it really helps you to churn it all round again? I didn't really know what I was doing when I first got legal advice and was told orders could be served, I took the advice and when my ex got served the non-mol it was like going cold turkey. Although I feel disgust and fear towards him, there was still a part of me that wished I could get him to acknowledge what he'd done and say sorry. The non-mol meant I couldn't contact him either, which in hindsight was the best thing because it gave me space from him. I'm saying all this not to suggest non-mol, but to say that you're divorcing, you need the space, so really he shouldn't be trying to draw you into discussions anymore. If he is, are there ways for you to change that?

Btw my mother thinks my stbxh is a lovely man and that it was all my fault. She thought that when she thought he'd hit me, and she still thinks that now I've told her. In fact even more so. It's mad.

[YesICanHearYouClemFandango]

I agree with everything PreemptiveSalvageEngineer said. Snowflake, please believe me when I say that this is about them, not you. Who knows why they hold the opinions they do. But that's all they are. Opinions. The facts remain, and the fact is you were raped. Repeatedly. By the person you are theoretically supposed to be able to trust with your life, and the lives of your children. It is madness to suggest that a reconciliation would be in ANYBODY'S best interests other than your husband's. You have done an amazing thing leaving him and you are so much stronger than you realise. Please put yourself first. I know you want to put your children first, and really you are because this is definitely what they need you to do, even though they're too young to realise this. But of course it doesn't seem quite so straightforward at the moment because your head's in the shed (understandably) and you're getting bad (and dangerous) advice from your family. So concentrate on what you know you need to do for yourself. You should be really proud of yourself.

[PreemptiveSalvageEngineer]

snowflake, I won't ask what your parents do, but what you say makes that all the more shameful. And obviously that makes it harder for you to believe yourself: they're professionals, after all, how can they possibly be wrong?

Listen. I've read somewhere that a staggeringly high proportion of doctors smoke. Some coppers are the worst for abuse and law-breaking. There's no accounting for idiots, really.

The damage to your children by staying with an abuser far FAR outweigh the benefits. And your parents sound more dysfunctional and damaging with everything further you tell us. At very least don't let them take your courage away. But you might have to reduce contact with them if they continue to try to drag you down.

Time and again we see on these relationships that the abused person had parents who had been less than supportive, thereby laying the foundation for her adult life. And the worst thing the abused can to is allow it to go down yetanother generation.

You have done an incredibly strong thing in leaving your STBX. You have taken steps to break the cycle. Your DCs stand a very good chance of being first generation abuse-free. Stay strong, for them.

[UncertainSmile]

I'm so sorry that your family have failed you when you really needed them.

[snowflake02]

Thank you YesICanHearYouClemFandango and ShebaShimmyShake, it is very hard that they don't seem to understand and to my mind are minimising everything. It is even more upsetting given what they do work wise that they don't get it and it has really contributed to me feeling that I am just over reacting and that if I could just forgive him then everything would be ok.

[ShebaShimmyShake]

Your family are dangerous morons. Rape within marriage has been a crime since 1991 (unbelievable that it took so long, but better late than never). And don't get me started on the idea that it's somehow less violent and horrendous than hitting you. I'd much rather be slapped in the face than raped.

I promise you, if he is capable of abusing you he is capable of abusing his daughter, and of teaching his son, one way or another, that violence against women is acceptable.

[YesICanHearYouClemFandango]

I wish I could give you a hug snowflake

I've read both threads fully since I last posted. Everything in my original post still stands, but since then you have also told us that your family think you should get back with him, and that actually made me cry.

Your family have issues, to put it politely. It doesn't change the seriousness of what your DH has done one iota. Your family are WRONG. On so many levels. Please know that this is about them and their issues, and not really about you and what happened.

So, ignore your family, obviously. If you need to go NC with them for a while in order to get the space you need to sort your head out a bit and process what you've gone through, do it without a second's hesitation. I really hope you are able to access some counselling soon. I think it will help you a lot. (Speaking from experience).

FWIW I've got quite a difficult relationship with some of my family but my god, if they ever suggested what your family have suggested...my heart goes out to you

[manana21]

No I can't see how you could love him when he's done that. So I can't see how it's best for your DC - there could be no real emotional warmth between you and DH, that's not a normal healthy situation. Your p don't understand, it didn't happen to them. TBH it sounds as though you have a lot of people in your life that minimize you and don't back you up, don't put up with it anymore. My mum says unkind things sometimes and I pull her up on it now, it is a lot better than the squashed down feelings I used to have before. Tell your parents he raped you, it does matter, you are getting divorced and they need to back you up, get behind you and help your DC with the transition. And your DC's views on who's fault this all is are worthless because you are necessarily protecting them, so even though it hurts, you're doing the right thing.