Am I completely stupid to even consider reconciling with husband who raped me?

[snowflake02]

Just that really. I have posted here so many times and found the support unbelievably helpful. But here I am again. Is it now too late for him to apologise and accept what he did? (Original thread here)
Am I crazy for even wondering if we could put things back together? Are some things just unforgiveable? Or am I overreacting? I know I have asked before but I am still struggling to accept that it was the R word.

Why is it any better if he admits that he raped you?! It makes it no less likely that he will do it again.

And in any case, you are clutching at straws. Look at what he's actually said. He's prepared to go to counselling so that you can recount this incident no doubt several times over, in forensic detail, so that a jury of you, him and the counsellor can 'determine' if it was rape. The law is clear. It was rape. His intention is to use the jury of you, him and the counsellor to "prove" that it wasn't, by badgering you into changing your statement.

Your H doesn't think he's a rapist. A rapist is the kind of low-life scum who pulls women off the street and rapes them violently in alley ways. He's not a rapist. He's just someone who had sex with his wife when she wasn't all that into it. No biggie.

He cannot ever admit to what he's done because it will destroy his view of the world and his place in it. His denial is a very powerful force - who's going to declare themself a rapist? He'd be nuts. He cannot name what he did. Which means he can never make amends for it.

And he can do it again.

UnderTheGreenwoodTree that is exactly it. I am caught between the man I thought he was and the man he turned out to be.

gingerfinn I thought your advice was good, but maybe that is because on some level that is what I want to hear, rather than because it is actually a good thing to do.

I just need to feel I am 100% justified in my decision, not for me, but for me children. They adore their daddy. They are completely heartbroken and I want to see if there is a way I can put their little hearts back together.

Snowflake - I firmly believe that no decent man would rape a woman.

He has managed to convince himself that it was a misunderstanding - he misunderstood the word 'no'. Even if he accepts that he was wrong to do what he did that time, he will still always be the man who HEARD a woman say 'no' ^but who decided it would be OK to carry on having sex with her.

He will always be a rapist. And he could do it again.

Why is a rapist a good father for your children? Why is he better than no father?

I believe you are still in the denial phase - the not being able to say rape is a sign as is the trying to go back in time by considering getting back with him.

This is a very normal coping mechanism. It is not something you should feel stupid over but equally it is not something you should act on either.

It would really help to have some counselling. You have been able to type the word on this thread, you are tentatively ready to talk about it. That's what I think you should focus on. Thinking about it is going to make you feel out of control and make your feelings of being drawn back in stronger - do not act on them.

If you go to counselling they will not expect you to able to talk about it in detail or say the word immediately. They are used to gently supporting you to the point where you can talk.

ginger's advice was not good. Offred was quite right to call it crap (and she didn't insult ginger on any personal level).

Counselling is for couples who want to compromise and see how they can work towards a way forward. It is not for a rapist to reassure himself that he didn't do anything wrong and that he can override a woman's 'no'.

Your kids may be too young to pick up on it now, but they will sense his abusiveness as they get older because there's no way a rapist isn't manifesting it in other ways too.

LonnyVonny is 100% correct. Everyone agrees that violent, sudden, stranger rape is rape. They agree on this because it pretty much never happens, so nobody's threatened by calling it what it is. Rape is much, much more commonly something like what you experienced, and frequently with a lovely dose of 'no, that wasn't rape dear, rape is something else entirely. That was just me having sex with you when you weren't that into it, your 'no' wasn't the same as that other non existent stranger rape victim's 'no'.'

But you want to think of your children, understandably so. For their sake, do not allow a rapist into your home and your bed. If you have sons then God knows what messages they'll get from that, if you have daughters then God help them.

Your children do not need you to be with their father to have a relationship with him.

If they are very, very upset this can be a sign that they have been drawn into his emotional abuse and are struggling, just like you, with the separation. Not because he is healthy to be around or because they love him but because they have been abused.

That said ALL children are sad after a break up, it's normal for this to happen but you have to stand firm. It does not benefit children to go back to a relationship just because they are sad.

you must stick up for yourself, he did rape you and he won't ever accept it because that would mean accepting he's an awful person. He's minimising and playing dad of the year, don't be guilted into having more 'counselling' with him. Good for the dc that he's being a good dad, you should move on and meet someone properly nice. Neither you or the dc are sentenced to a lonely life but you will be if you took him back because he'll browbeat you over this until you go mad. You know you're right, he crossed the line and there's nothing more to be said.

It's going to be very difficult for you to withstand their sadness though with everything else going on.

I grew up with a rapist abusive father in my house for 12 years of my life. Children always pick up on things even if it isn't right in there face. The damage that has been done to me and my siblings and our mental wellbeing is very great. Don't think staying together for the kids is always the best thing for them, it really isn't.

OP - I understand your difficulties, denial is a powerful thing: self-preservation in a way.

BUT - imagine taking him back. He's convinced himself it was a misunderstanding.

Imagine climbing into bed with him as you did on that night. Would you feel happy? Safe?

You cannot live safely with your rapist.

I know it will always be there, he can't undo what has already been done. I just want to give the children what they want. And on some level what I want too. Only without all the bad stuff having happened first.

Please don't. A friend has stayed with her husband after he raped her; told us all what happened, but didn't report it to the police. His parents have completely minimised the situation and she is desperately trying to change herself to make him happier. It is awful for us to watch as friends, her changing into the shell of who she was before.

You are worth so much more than that.

I was a total mess after my XP raped me. I got pregnant.

Fortunately for me he left a few months after when he pushed me to the floor while I was holding our baby DS and I called the police.

You are stronger than you know but you will need support with this. He can't support you, he will harm you further.

I needed some pretty intensive support from WA after, the main thing was dealing with the fact I had been manipulated into accepting his abuse and the rape and that I couldn't be trusted to think clearly about him for awhile. I allowed myself to be entirely led by WA for over a year until the brainwashing was undone and it has been the most important thing that has ever happened. Recognising I couldn't trust my thoughts or feelings was difficult and painful but it had to be done for me to get away. For awhile the whole world was terrifying but I had support through it and I regained control on my terms which is vastly preferable to giving up control so as to avoid the pain of what's happened IMO.

It can only escalate from here. He may not be abusive towards the children now but as they get older and stop hero worshipping him, what do you think a rapist who thinks his will trumps all is likely to do?

Forgive me for not RTFT but I did read the opening post on your initial thread. What you described was clearly no misunderstanding and even without him trying to minimise it to that, I really can't see how you could have a safe, trusting relationship with him.

I know it must seem easier in some ways to stay with him but ultimately you will never feel safe or secure. You deserve better than this. I'm sorry your kids are hurt but (a) they get to leave and (b) think about the impact on them if he does stay.

I'm so sorry, this is a horrible situation but please do stay strong.

Part of me wants me to hear him admit it because then I might find it easier to name it myself. He has told all his family what happened and they all say he didn't rape me. They all think it was a misunderstanding too. So humiliating.

Am I completely stupid to even consider reconciling with husband who raped me
Erm, in a word, Yes!

You can't help your children by living with your rapist. What does it teach them?

Now get some/more counselling and work on your self esteem. Good luck.

What's important is giving the children what they need rather than what they want.

It is so terribly difficult for you to deal with their sadness atm I am sure but please don't be swayed.

They may want their dad back and things to be how they were but for one things will never be normal now anyway even if you do go back and secondly they need to live in a house which is free from abuse in order to grow into healthy adults.

They cannot possibly understand that but you must be brave and go against their sadness and pleas for a time machine. It will get better. It will get better quicker the more support you have for you and the more distance you put between you and him.

He is telling people he knows will support him. Has he asked the police or a solicitor? No, because they will be more likely to be objective...

He is trying to humiliate you. The fact he is telling so many people and getting you to go to counselling to be told you are wrong IS a strong signal that he knows it was rape and he is trying to scare/convince you it wasn't.

You are not likely to ever get an admission from him though, you can get some closure from other places, like rape counselling.

He has told all his family what happened and they all say he didn't rape me. They all think it was a misunderstanding too. So humiliating.

OP - that is horrible, but I bet you weren't there when he did this. You don't know what he said, what he omitted, what he twisted. His family's view of it is not accurate - what happened was rape as written in law.

You need to stop doubting that this was rape. Yes, it would be helpful for both of you if he could wake up to/acknowledge what he did - but his (in denial) view of it does not define it. Yours does.

You absolutely said no. He absolutely heard you, and didn't care.

And though it is really tempting to rely on what other people think about what happened when you are in the mire of this, the only thing you should trust is your view of it - it was rape.

If he didn't think it was rape (really inside) why would he want to be back with you? Would you want to go back to someone who falsely accused you of raping them or do you think it is more likely he knows he did and is convincing you not to trust yourself because a. It means he doesn't have to face the consequences of what he knows he did and b. He will be able to do it again?

And is it surprising that his family might agree with him? They have loyalty to him and also raised him to be a rapist.

Ask him to pop into the police station with you and see if they think it's rape...

The denial I talked about upthread affects other people too. Imagine turning round to your own son and saying 'you raped snowflake'. What a terrible thing to come to terms with. Far easier to believe it's some sort of 'misunderstanding'. (WTF??).

As a parent it's not your job to give your children what they want. Mine wanted a Galaxy before bed. He didn't get it. It's my job to teach him right from wrong. It's my job to give him what he needs. His wants don't reLly come into it.

I'd take his family backing him with a large pinch of salt, they'll never be able to accept he's bad either as they raised him, how could they have raised a rapist? That may not reflect well on them, denial so much more convenient for them...You see - stick to your guns. He's pushing you around again and making you unsure of yourself. I agree, why does he want you back if he thinks you've trumped up this rape thing? If you take him back your word will never count for anything because he'll have learned he has total control. If he were a decent man, he'd get divorced quietly, do his best to be a good dad and leave you alone. But then he wouldn't have done this in the first place if he was decent.