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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Sh*t...my marriage could collapse AND I could fall out with family over this

222 replies

LionsNtigersNbearsOHMY · 18/06/2015 09:09

I've been on here once before ages ago regarding this matter. I can't remember my former ID for this. I've had a name change since.

2 years ago, we bought a 4 bedroom house. We have 3 young kids ranging from teen years to baby. The verbal agreement was that my mother, who lives in the States, would sell up and move in with us giving us a proportion of the proceeds from the sale of her bungalow to help us pay down our mortgage and allow us all to stay in this house where she'd be looked after until her death. The idea is to never have to put her in a home. We made a commitment and over the years, mom's stays with us have gotten longer and longer. This last time, she stayed one year.

It's not easy, but it's not terrible either. We get along very well, husband especially loves mom, possibly more than me because I get the brunt of the carer stuff. Her mobility is reduced and she is 80 and in not such good health, so this is not easy, but she's not completely immobile yet and can still bathe herself and walk up and down the stairs. She's a warm, loving person but never, ever does anything for herself. Her hobby is me. I find this draining at times, but she's always been this way. I knew what I was taking on when we offered her to live with us. We did not make this decision lightly.

The thing is, in order for this to work in the house where we live, we need a proportion of mom's money from her house sale. She agreed to this, giving my brother a smaller proportion so that he has 'something'. This was discussed and agreed between mom and me/hubby two years ago. She has never discussed it much since. She went home to the states to stay with my brother 4 weeks ago and rang me the other day to say she's coming back in July. We're not ready to have her back. But basically, the long and short of it is, my brother and his wife- who have been living a marvellous champagne lifestyle (they are older with grown kids- this is his second wife, married two years)- are broke, skint, and now have to downsize into a flat and send my mother back here to stay with us (we so needed the breather after having her here so long and we anticipated she'd go back to stay with my brother for several months. That's how it's been the past 5 years.

My husband's stance is, no she can't come back until she deals with real life. She can't keep coming back and forth, living out a suitcase while everyone supports her financially. She needs to go home and decide what to do with the house she hasn't slept in for over 5 years. She just goes back and forth between my brother's in the States and my home here in the UK. She has left her house to rot. But in the past year my brother has been frantically doing up her house, without involving me in any aspect. I have no idea what's happened to mom's contents. She won't discuss her house with me at all other than to say, my brother is dealing with everything. He has now written to me to say that he is broke and downsizing. He can't have mom stay with him anymore and he's sending her back to me and renting her house out. He says she can live with us and live off the rent from her home.

Financially, this doesn't work for us because the idea was that we'd be able to pay down our house with mom's help and in return, support and house her until her death. She wouldn't need to pay for anything extra while living with us. She would not live like a tenant, paying a portion of the bills or anything. Life stuff would be on us. My husband has become terribly pushy about mom's situation. Basically, we have to sell if she doesn't come in on this house with us financially. And although she agreed to this verbally, I did warn my husband that while my brother did not agree to this, my mom would wax and wane, which is totally what's happened. Basically, she wants to make me happy and my brother happy. The long and short of it is that she keeps saying, "Yes, I'll invest with you" but has made no motion to do so. She does come and stay but hasn't shown us that she wants to 'live' here, if that makes sense. My brother does not want her to sell and give us any proceeds. He wants her to rent out her property and live with us but feels we should be able to support her without proceeds from her house. We would not have bought this house if we did not think she was going to invest with us. We wanted to buy a smaller house on the same road and that was the house we were going to be gunning for. But when mom said she would live with us and offer a lump sum to help with this, we made sure we secured this house. Everything would be put into place to protect her investment. We would make sure that if anything happened to my husband or to me or if we divorced, mom's investment would be protected.

Me? I don't want any of it anymore. It's all so messy. On the one hand, I feel like we're just sniffing around my mother's money and on the other hand, I see my hubby's point. She did say she'd like to sell her house and give us some not all of her proceeds in order to allow us to keep this house where she too can live. The bottom line is, we bought this house thinking she would go in with us on it because she wanted to. Now she just doesn't want to talk about it. She wants to come and stay but not discuss her future at all. The whole year she was here, we couldn't talk about it. We will have to sell and downsize because we can't reasonably sustain this large property without her help. This leaves her a bit stranded. But at the same time, it will make my brother happy because he did not- and he made this clear- not mom investing with us. He did not explain why or what his issues were, no matter how many email exchanges we've had. He just has made it clear that he doesn't want her investing with us. I don't know what he thinks is best for mom.

Mom is now very cagey about what she wants. I said to my husband that it's like we're communicating in Braille. We're all very civilised and nice to each other. Not one harsh word has been spoken. But behind each other's backs I am certain we all feel frustrated. Mom wants to live with us but I don't think she wants to invest with us. I would LOVE to house my mom for free. I hate needing money from her to make this work, I simply hate thus situation. It's become entirely about money.

My brother has taken over the refurbishment of her house completely and he ignores any emails I write discussing her home or her plans. He'll respond to my jokey emails where we discuss superficial stuff. But with regards to mom's finances or future, the wall goes up. And as I said, mom wants to live with us without discussing anything financial.

I feel like I'm the bad guy here. We have not pushed mom to sell. We have not pushed her to make a decision. But it's sort of crunch time for us. We have to decide how to manage a property we bought thinking she was coming in with us on it. I've told her not to come in July. I've told her we need to decide the way forward with our house. The possibility of selling is very real. As of April 2016, my husband will have a £15,000 income drop as well. So this came as a shock only two weeks ago.

Please tell me if I am unreasonable. I cannot see the forest for the trees and I need some honest advice and opinions, even if I come out looking bad.

My husband is angry. My brother's emails are becoming curt. And I feel like I'm just trying to avoid a huge family bust up. My mom is footloose and fancy free. I don't think she's given anything much thought. And I feel a bit angry with her for this. It's all about "Where will I go now? I want to avoid the California summer. I think I'll come back to England." But she's not understanding that she's dealing with children who have their own worries and need to make long-term plans with or without her on board. Thank you in advance.

OP posts:
sisterofmercy · 26/06/2015 13:22

Gods... at last you are getting angry.

This is the sign of you beginning to lose patience and assert your needs. Do NOT feel guilty. Hang on to some of that energy. You are a truly lovely person but you need to devote your loveliness to people who can appreciate it and reflect some of that warmth back.

DinosaursRoar · 26/06/2015 13:32

It sounds like you're on the right track to putting yourself and your DCs first- every other member of your family appear to be putting themselves first, so about time you joined in!

If you are going to break silence with anyone, make it your DH and start sorting out getting rid of the too big house you can't afford.

plutonimum · 26/06/2015 13:39

"It sounds like you're on the right track to putting yourself and your DCs first- every other member of your family appear to be putting themselves first, so about time you joined in!"

Yes, you've already tried "putting others or at least Mother, husband and brother first" and it didn't work, so it's time to try something else! I bet the DC will be more grateful, and more co-operative, and you will be happier.

mix56 · 26/06/2015 15:14

It was going to happen, loo, after yourself now & OH will have to look at restructuring his job as mentioned by pp ? if not back on the market sadly.
Your brother wants the money but not your mother....

mix56 · 26/06/2015 15:14

look !

Phoenix0x0 · 26/06/2015 15:35

I'm glad that you have voiced what you want.

How entitled are they!?

Their reaction says it all really.....they are not speaking to you because you are not doing what they want, and belive me when I say that they will use any means to make you change your mind emotional blackmail.

Your children will thrive now.Like. They. Should.

Well done!

lavenderhoney · 26/06/2015 15:46

Words email is really good- I've just read through this thread and op, you are way too nice.

Don't call it an investment though. It's not, because investment has a return on it. Your mother needs to be open about how she wants to split her money. If it's 50/50 so be it. She can't have her cake and eat it though. She doesn't live in the house so she needs to sell it.

She could sell, live in the UK or US and then will assets 50/50. But your house should be sold and she can't live with you. It's too much. You know it.
Your db has said she can't live with him and that's accepted, and he doesn't have DC- why are you putting the burden of care on yourself?

Your dh must be stressed and pissed off. Solution is to sell or he find another job. Personally I'd sell up and live somewhere else financially manageable. And that suits YOU not near retirement homes etc- and yes, a counsellor to bounce things off and be yourself without fear of seeming nasty could help you. There's no shame in looking after number one, like your db.

Twinklestein · 26/06/2015 15:57

Sorry to hear the update OP.

On the other hand, your mother can move in with your brother and he can spend the rest of his life looking after her. Good luck to him.

rumbleinthrjungle · 26/06/2015 16:20

I'm a cynical cow and tbh, I would suspect your brother is working on taking the house, if it's not already tied up and sorted, and is relying on the fact that from a different country it will be very hard to stop him. I would also suspect the plan is to return mum to you ASAP, since he 'can't have her to stay' and her house is 'unusable', and he will rely on her not being able to do the travelling for very much longer, and you will have mum while he will have house/money.

I would act right now as though no money will ever be coming from any other source, don't wait any more. Downsize and do what you and dc need to do to be safe and secure. Brother and mum can then do their own thing, and let you know if/what they decide. They are aware of the situation, it isn't that they don't understand it or haven't been told, it isn't that they don't know they've caused you this situation, they just don't want to engage, and you can't make them or wait around indefinitely with your life on hold. If dm then voices that she wants to return to the UK to be near you, that's great. She's going to need to sort out a sheltered accommodation flat and fund it, you'll send her some brochures. And she can then fight that out with db if need be: I suspect he will not easily release the house or money and she may need legal help to force the sale and release her capital, unless db is under the impression that the nhs will just step up and take over. But if she has nowhere to go and no one facilitating her to ignore her situation, she will have to make decisions and get active. The ball has to be put back into their courts and you carry on with your life. Db and dm will probably be very content to let the situation bumble along exactly as it is indefinitely, with no decisions made, which will likely end with you having dm by default with no financial support, probably in a much smaller house that makes having her a great deal harder.

Dh I suspect may be a whole other problem. Sad

RandomMess · 26/06/2015 17:00

Really sad that your dh isn't supporting you. No surprise about your brother, he seems to acting very entitled...

Enjoy the emotional holiday I can imagine the relief from having to think/deal with it for a while.

Jux · 26/06/2015 20:04

Please stay in Zen-Space! That is the way to go.

Where you were when you started this thread was where everybody was mucking you about and making you responsible for what they wanted, without thinking at all about how it would work for you.

I had my mum living with us for the last 5 years of her life. We bought a larger house using money from her. We were all very happy, though towards her end we had to get other carers in as I have ms, and couldn't do it all. Now my brother lives in the granny flat.

The big big difference was that we all talked about it, a lot, before we did anything. That includes my brothers, who were always asking me if I was really sure I wanted to do it.

No one seems to care how you feel about it, or what sort of effect it is likely to have on you. It seems like they just think of you as a means to an end.

Turn the lot down.

Think about what you want for yourself and for your children. Moving into a smaller place will be easier to manage, take less time and energy, cost less to run. Big advantages.

sweetcheeks2014 · 27/06/2015 01:00

OP you have one life and we are all here a short time, Put the needs of yourself and your DC first. YOu know how you feel after a year of caring for your mum, if she moves to the UK have her close but not living with you. If fiaable you and DH work on your own relationship, if not take steps to ensure your own happiness and that of your DC, You cannot please everyone in this situation- do not try to anymore.

Walkacrossthesand · 27/06/2015 09:05

Lions, in a way I'm happy to see your most recent update, because for the first time you're talking about about how you feel and what you need. You don't say what happened to make the toxic trio stop talking to you, but as a PP said, I presume you refused to play your part in the scenario because it doesn't work for you (or your DCs, from what you said). Good for you. If your mum really were a 'lovely person' she wouldn't be ostracising her own daughter for stating her opinion.
Hold fast, the relief you feel now speaks volumes about what is the 'right' thing to do. Maybe moving out with the children & setting up in a small rental mightn't be such a bad idea?

Gfplux · 27/06/2015 13:38

Two years ago you bought a particular house as your mother agreed to give you £200k so you could afford it. This money would come from selling he home. What happened next?
Sorry don't need an answer but that passing of time has brought you to where you are now.
That really is the point.
You are where you are now.
You either need to get on a plane and stitch the original deal back together and get that cash ASAP. Then cope with the problems that will bring you.
Or
Put your house on the market and cope with the a different set of problems that will bring you.
There are no other choices that can fix this long term.

thegreylady · 27/06/2015 17:38

Opposite point of view...this thread has terrified me! My dh is 79 and not in great health and I am 71. My ds and my not so dear sd live abroad. Two dss and my dd in UK with dd in next town to me. I am very afraid of living alone. Dd and her dh have always said they would never let that happen. Atm they live in a 3bed semi with their two boys. I said that if the worst happened I would sell up and invest part of the money in a bigger house I could share with dd and family.
This has already caused grumbles from my son and possibly quieter ones from dss. I see the point, when I died dd would be left with a big house with a lot of equity. I would give the boys a lump sum when I sold the bungalow and they would evenytually share what I had left.
The thing is I am so scared of being alone, I wouldn't want to live with any of the others (and I don't think they'd want me).
I just want to feel secure. If dh outlives me he says he will stay where he is as long as possible but he is very sympathetic to my point of view and ultimately it will be my decision.

plutonimum · 27/06/2015 22:31

Oh, thegreylady, that's made me sad, as I've never seen any of your posts and imagined you could be unwanted! I'm sure it's only the caring responsibility that your children and stepchildren are veering away from (unlike with OP's mother; she sounds totally un-empathetic and irresponsible!)

Jux · 27/06/2015 23:57

Thegreylady, unless the others want to do what your dd and her dh will do for you, they don't have a leg to stand on. The only alternative which ensures you are not alone, is a 'home' which will also ensure all your money is spent, so none of them will get anything. I do think it's pretty sad that they're looking on your money as 'theirs' to divvy up between them, when they're not prepared to look after you, themselves. Conversely, how lovely that your dd wants to have you with her should the time come.

AgathaChristie01 · 28/06/2015 00:48

No one seems to care how you feel about it, or what sort of effect it is likely to have on you. It seems like they just think of you as a means to an end.

+1. Glad to see OP, that you have taken an emotional 'holiday'. This sounds absolutely exhausting for you Flowers. Sometimes, you have to step back, and think 'what about me'.
Don't be afraid of the anger. Sometimes you need to get angry to fight for yourself, and your needs.
Take care and I hope that things work out for you.

Dead · 28/06/2015 09:36

So pleased that the genie is out of the bottle. Your priority now is for yourself - being the best MOTHER you can be for your DC - their childhoods would be severely compromised if you took on you DM now - as would your marriage if it survived at all.

Maybe it is all just timing - it doesnt sound like your DM needs intensive care right now anyway - sounds like she could live semi-independent if she wanted to - maybe revisit the decision in 5-10 years when your kids are at uni and if she is frail then.

But for now - it is you and the kids.

With your large house could you either hang on to it by generating income by getting a lodger (you can get 5 night lodgers who clear off at weekends) or an au pair so that you can work - IF this is what you want to do?

Or downsize now to take the stress off financially but buying somewhere where you could extend or invest if you ever get an inheritance?

As this is not a unique situation facing many families - maybe this might work to keep everyone happy. The parents house is rented out long term and all the rental goes to the DC who houses and cares for parent - to fund care and a small extension/house move etc. When parent dies or has to go into care the parents house is sold and split evenly?

Buying and selling is v costly by wasting money on fees. Could renovating you mothers house in US provide a strong rental income that she could use to rent somewhere independently in either UK or US or perf 6 months in each?

Stealthpolarbear · 29/06/2015 16:06

How is it going op?

willywonka69 · 29/06/2015 19:25

How about this.
300 divided by two is 150 each.
Mum sells and gives you your 150 tp invest in house and gives her son 100.
His other 50 is invested in your house. If house costs 500 then mum has a 10% share in house. When she dies this is bequeathed to son. You make agreement bow that she mum dies you get five valuations l, bin highest and lowest and take average of the middle three. You then buy out brother his 10%, he got after mum died, or sell.
She also has income , pension to live on

TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams · 30/06/2015 14:54

Very pleased for you OP that you have mentally reached the end of your rope and acknowledged to yourself how exhausting it is to try to please everyone except yourself.
I hope that the peace and quiet is continuing Grin

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