Sh*t...my marriage could collapse AND I could fall out with family over this

[LionsNtigersNbearsOHMY]

I've been on here once before ages ago regarding this matter. I can't remember my former ID for this. I've had a name change since.

2 years ago, we bought a 4 bedroom house. We have 3 young kids ranging from teen years to baby. The verbal agreement was that my mother, who lives in the States, would sell up and move in with us giving us a proportion of the proceeds from the sale of her bungalow to help us pay down our mortgage and allow us all to stay in this house where she'd be looked after until her death. The idea is to never have to put her in a home. We made a commitment and over the years, mom's stays with us have gotten longer and longer. This last time, she stayed one year.

It's not easy, but it's not terrible either. We get along very well, husband especially loves mom, possibly more than me because I get the brunt of the carer stuff. Her mobility is reduced and she is 80 and in not such good health, so this is not easy, but she's not completely immobile yet and can still bathe herself and walk up and down the stairs. She's a warm, loving person but never, ever does anything for herself. Her hobby is me. I find this draining at times, but she's always been this way. I knew what I was taking on when we offered her to live with us. We did not make this decision lightly.

The thing is, in order for this to work in the house where we live, we need a proportion of mom's money from her house sale. She agreed to this, giving my brother a smaller proportion so that he has 'something'. This was discussed and agreed between mom and me/hubby two years ago. She has never discussed it much since. She went home to the states to stay with my brother 4 weeks ago and rang me the other day to say she's coming back in July. We're not ready to have her back. But basically, the long and short of it is, my brother and his wife- who have been living a marvellous champagne lifestyle (they are older with grown kids- this is his second wife, married two years)- are broke, skint, and now have to downsize into a flat and send my mother back here to stay with us (we so needed the breather after having her here so long and we anticipated she'd go back to stay with my brother for several months. That's how it's been the past 5 years.

My husband's stance is, no she can't come back until she deals with real life. She can't keep coming back and forth, living out a suitcase while everyone supports her financially. She needs to go home and decide what to do with the house she hasn't slept in for over 5 years. She just goes back and forth between my brother's in the States and my home here in the UK. She has left her house to rot. But in the past year my brother has been frantically doing up her house, without involving me in any aspect. I have no idea what's happened to mom's contents. She won't discuss her house with me at all other than to say, my brother is dealing with everything. He has now written to me to say that he is broke and downsizing. He can't have mom stay with him anymore and he's sending her back to me and renting her house out. He says she can live with us and live off the rent from her home.

Financially, this doesn't work for us because the idea was that we'd be able to pay down our house with mom's help and in return, support and house her until her death. She wouldn't need to pay for anything extra while living with us. She would not live like a tenant, paying a portion of the bills or anything. Life stuff would be on us. My husband has become terribly pushy about mom's situation. Basically, we have to sell if she doesn't come in on this house with us financially. And although she agreed to this verbally, I did warn my husband that while my brother did not agree to this, my mom would wax and wane, which is totally what's happened. Basically, she wants to make me happy and my brother happy. The long and short of it is that she keeps saying, "Yes, I'll invest with you" but has made no motion to do so. She does come and stay but hasn't shown us that she wants to 'live' here, if that makes sense. My brother does not want her to sell and give us any proceeds. He wants her to rent out her property and live with us but feels we should be able to support her without proceeds from her house. We would not have bought this house if we did not think she was going to invest with us. We wanted to buy a smaller house on the same road and that was the house we were going to be gunning for. But when mom said she would live with us and offer a lump sum to help with this, we made sure we secured this house. Everything would be put into place to protect her investment. We would make sure that if anything happened to my husband or to me or if we divorced, mom's investment would be protected.

Me? I don't want any of it anymore. It's all so messy. On the one hand, I feel like we're just sniffing around my mother's money and on the other hand, I see my hubby's point. She did say she'd like to sell her house and give us some not all of her proceeds in order to allow us to keep this house where she too can live. The bottom line is, we bought this house thinking she would go in with us on it because she wanted to. Now she just doesn't want to talk about it. She wants to come and stay but not discuss her future at all. The whole year she was here, we couldn't talk about it. We will have to sell and downsize because we can't reasonably sustain this large property without her help. This leaves her a bit stranded. But at the same time, it will make my brother happy because he did not- and he made this clear- not mom investing with us. He did not explain why or what his issues were, no matter how many email exchanges we've had. He just has made it clear that he doesn't want her investing with us. I don't know what he thinks is best for mom.

Mom is now very cagey about what she wants. I said to my husband that it's like we're communicating in Braille. We're all very civilised and nice to each other. Not one harsh word has been spoken. But behind each other's backs I am certain we all feel frustrated. Mom wants to live with us but I don't think she wants to invest with us. I would LOVE to house my mom for free. I hate needing money from her to make this work, I simply hate thus situation. It's become entirely about money.

My brother has taken over the refurbishment of her house completely and he ignores any emails I write discussing her home or her plans. He'll respond to my jokey emails where we discuss superficial stuff. But with regards to mom's finances or future, the wall goes up. And as I said, mom wants to live with us without discussing anything financial.

I feel like I'm the bad guy here. We have not pushed mom to sell. We have not pushed her to make a decision. But it's sort of crunch time for us. We have to decide how to manage a property we bought thinking she was coming in with us on it. I've told her not to come in July. I've told her we need to decide the way forward with our house. The possibility of selling is very real. As of April 2016, my husband will have a £15,000 income drop as well. So this came as a shock only two weeks ago.

Please tell me if I am unreasonable. I cannot see the forest for the trees and I need some honest advice and opinions, even if I come out looking bad.

My husband is angry. My brother's emails are becoming curt. And I feel like I'm just trying to avoid a huge family bust up. My mom is footloose and fancy free. I don't think she's given anything much thought. And I feel a bit angry with her for this. It's all about "Where will I go now? I want to avoid the California summer. I think I'll come back to England." But she's not understanding that she's dealing with children who have their own worries and need to make long-term plans with or without her on board. Thank you in advance.

Oh, and then stuck record technique.

DM & DB will then probably do a lot of 'oh, but what about XYZ" "but this, but that'.

Just keep repeating DM needs to decide. Once decision is made, of course you can all make plans. But first DM needs to make a clear decision. in the meantime you are putting your house on the market because you can no longer afford it. And therefore can't have DM to stay. Of course, if it is sold before DM makes a decision, then she no longer has the option of living with you.

And put the house on the market.

Let DH rage about DM. Keep a stuck record with him - we can't afford this house, if DM has changed her mind there is nothing either of you can do about it.

You don't want to be your mum's carer. So don't be. You have three children ffs! Your husband is a nasty grabby bastard. So sort out your relationship or divorce him. Don't sit around and look back in ten years and blame everyone else for hoe things have gone. This is your life. Sort it out.

This is your priority.

You need to make the best emotional decisions FIRST and then follow with the financial decisions.

The time for you and your children in NOW - the next few years to work on your marriage or end it - their childhood is short give then your best and your focus right now.

I think that you have dodged a bullet - it really isnt an option for your mother to come and live with you right now. You do not want this or need this in your life - even if the original financial agreement had been upheld - your needs would not have been met and you, your children's and your husbands emotional well being would be short changed/under threat and your family would fall apart due to the stress you are under with your mother.

I think you should look at the short/medium term for you and your family - sell up, work on your marriage, raise your kids as best you can with least distractions for now. If you have a teen - they are likely to only be living at home with you for another couple of years - revisit the situation down the line. There is nothing compelling you to commit to anything now - except you husbands unreasonableness -- tell him that YOU cant cope with mother now and that this will only get worse in time. I would get independent legal advice in US to understand what you brother could be up to....

If he was that naive he has no right to be angry about it now. The OP warned her husband about her mum and he didn't listen.

The OP has been very clear that the decision was purely about money for him and she knows him, we don't.

Furthermore she says that he's never home, she feels very lonely within the marriage. She doesn't seem to be getting much support from him on any front. Currently he won't even discuss her mother.

I sympathise with the OP.

That was to Joysmum^

Just keep repeating DM needs to decide. Once decision is made, of course you can all make plans. But first DM needs to make a clear decision. in the meantime you are putting your house on the market because you can no longer afford it. And therefore can't have DM to stay. Of course, if it is sold before DM makes a decision, then she no longer has the option of living with you.

I'm not convinced about this, this just provides another opportunity for the DM to defer her decision with the option of leaping in with "let's go with the investing in your house plan" just as you're about to agree to sell your house.

Quite simply OP the time for the investing in your house plan should now be closed and you need to discuss with your DH what compromise you both can reach that works for the two of you and your kids, tell your DM and DB what it is, and then act on it.

Agree -- OP needs to decide how SHE wants to spend the next 5-10 years of HER life - what are her priorities ? what are her needs and wants ? and how are these best met.....

Nightmare but v realistic and v possible scenario reads like this....

Needy & dependant mother comes to live with OP.

The neediness and dependancy increases -- this exhausts OP, this takes energy focus away from DCs and (already shaky) DH/marriage - family life deteriorates, marriage finally implodes.

House ends up sold anyway - lots of capital lost thru divorce proceedings - and DH walks away with £100k of OPs £200k inheritance -- BUT she is still left to house and support 3 young children and a disabled and demented mother.

Tbh I feel for your DH, I really do. He is not the bad guy here. You both decided to buy a bigger house with the agreement that as your mother was going to be living with you and contributing towards the cost (and rightly so), it was the right thing to do. You have just had your mother staying for ONE YEAR. He now has had a huge drop in salary, a further one coming next year, no contribution from your mother and now she wants to move in with you for free. Sorry OP, but if I were in his position I would be furious too.

The only reason you bought the house is so that you could house you mother. Therefore, she needs to contribute. You say you're exhausted all the time when she's there and your marriage suffers - no wonder he's pissed! You've got all the pain and zero gain and your family life is suffering. I think you are completely disregarding the fact that he has welcomed your mother to stay with you until her final days - a lot of partners wouldn't even want that. At least if you got a financial contribution then you can stay in the bigger house and also get some hired help to help you out with your mother for a little while each week, to give yourself a breather.

At the end of the day, you have 3 children and tbh I think they should be your priority right now. I think you are sacrificing your time with your children because of the situation with your mother and I don't think that is the right thing to do. Your children will not thank you for not being around when they needed you most because you were running around giving your full time to your mother. Your children need you more and so their needs trump hers. Honestly, I think the best thing to do is you downsize, your mother sells up and she buys a home in a retirement community or a home close to either you or your brother and she pays for some hired help to assist with the help from either you or your brother.

But you playing nice with everybody is gonna get you nowhere. So I think you just need to take the bull by the horns and just spell it out. And yes your husband will be angry about downsizing but I think you need to spell it out to him too - what's more important: (a) stay in a big house and we both be miserable or (b) we downsize and have a chance at happiness. I know which one I'd pick.

Also, to add I truly believe that you housing your mother is even an option anymore. You already said you are exhausted when she stays with you, and your marriage suffers terribly. When she's not there, things are better for you and your marriage. There's your answer. She may be your mother but that doesn't mean that you need to put your mental health and happiness behind everybody else. You have a right to happiness too. Your mother may live for 5 years or 20 years. Do you really want to spend the next possible 20 years of your life in a miserable marriage, staying up til 1am running around, exhausted and never having any time for YOU? £200k and a bigger house is NOT worth it. No money is worth that.

Oops correction! I truly believe housing your mother is not even an option anymore.

I think you need to bite the bullet and accept that you need to downsize because that money is not forthcoming.

In the US i expect she will have access to Medicare, and this (and the sale of her house) could support her to live at home with some additional help and eventually pay for the nursing home. If you want her to live with you at a later date, that's great but I think, that at this time you simply can't.

You may not realise it OP, but you are in quite a strong bargaining position. Brother does not want to care for your mother full time. Your mother does not want to go there, or live in her own house, or assisted living.

Put your house on the market, tell your mum that the option of her staying with you has now gone

To me, this is the best course of action - email your brother, and just say this:

Your husband is due to have the second of two pay cuts (don't say when), you cant afford this house, you never could without the further investment, so its now time to sell up and downsize, and until you do, you wont be able to have mother to stay, sorry. House is going on the market in a couple of weeks.

And you know how house sales can drag out, so you dont know when mother can come to stay again, if at all, until you know what size property you will be buying - maybe next summer? Draw them both out into negotiating with you, instead of you running around after them. Send the email - short and factual, and unapologetic . Then enjoy a month or two off, focus on your kids, and you.

Great post, Orrla

Email your brother and write to your mother if she's not on email saying:

*
Unfortunately our financial situation has changed significantly over the last two years and if we don't get a significant injection of cash by x date to pay down the mortgage, we will need to downsize immediately.

We need to spend the next couple of months getting the house ready for sale and finding a new home and therefore can't host Mum in the short to medium term. In the future we will only be able to host Mum for short visits as we will have a lot less space although we will always be happy to see her.

As Mum is mainly based in the US along with Brother it makes sense for them to sort out what next steps Mum can take in terms of care and accommodation. If she wants to buy a place in the UK near us once we've moved then we'd be happy to help her find somewhere once we're settled in our new place.

And double check her eligibility for NHS care in the UK. if she's habitually resident overseas then I thought your care eligibility lapsed after a few years

That approach is good CarrotVan but the first paragraph is an ultimatum for the DM to hand over money. I think the investing in the house plan should only be a goer if the people involved are doing it willingly. Once there's coercion I think this will bring problems.

In effect the DM has already provided an answer on the investing in the house plan, for whatever reason(s) she isn't keen to proceed with it. In these circumstances further negotiation is not productive, especially when the brother can throw a spanner in the works whenever he fancies.

I agree you need to check NHS care eligibility, I do think she could regain it if she becomes a permanent resident but you have to directly apply for that and then wait a year or so.

I would be worried that her stays of a year aren't covered by NHS and perhaps her insurance in US? They just seem very long. I am no expert in this area though, which is why I think you need to check.

Carrotvan's email is good. I think your DH will also have to be told the likely outcome is sell the house. I think the chances of this resolving itself satisfactorily by the time your income drops is probably nil.

Depends if you still want the investment to be an option, if so an ultimatum is really the only option.

If it's off the table then delete from "and if" to the comma

I get the impression the investing in the house plan isn't universally desired. The OP doesn't seem to want it, the DM is not helping it happen, and the brother doesn't want it (although he does want the DM to live with the OP and be cared for without him needing to be involved).

The only one who seems to want the plan to proceed is the DH but that's coming from a position of facing difficult financial pressure in the short term.

Making the plan happen in these circumstances seems like a bad idea.

Op I agree any communication with them needs to be factual and to the point. The time for flowery language and protecting feelings is over.

I'd go with CarrotVan's e-mail though I'd change that start to remind them of original position as understood by OP:

As your aware purchasing our current property with room for Mum was done on the understanding with Mum that x amount from her to off set the greater costs incurred and the ongoing and future board and not inconsiderable care needs. The money has not to date been forth coming and over the last two years our financial situation has changed significantly for the worst.

We now find ourselves in a position where we don't get a significant injection of cash by x date to pay down the mortgage, we will need to downsize immediately

...

I think I'd sit DH down as well OP and say sulking isn't going to change the situation - looks unlikely money is going to be forthcoming - so we need to make plans about selling.

To brutally honest of she does move in - she could well last years longer than expected putting a strain on your marriage and on you. I think you have to priories your own DC here - and maybe think about directed her to care homes or moving back to her house and putting support in place. You can find ways to offer support without sacrificing your own health and well being don't let people guilt you into being a martyr here.

Many people believe that Medicare will cover long-term care needs. It will not.

Medicare is a Federal health insurance program, which helps defray many of the medical expenses of most Americans over the age of 65. Medicare has two parts:

(Part A) Hospital Insurance helps pay the cost of inpatient hospital care. The number of days in the hospital paid for by Medicare is governed by a system based upon patient diagnosis and medical necessity for hospital care. Once it is no longer medically necessary for the person to remain in the hospital, the physician will begin the discharge process. If the person or the family disagrees with this decision, they may appeal to the state's Peer Review Organization.

Medicare does not pay for custodial care or nursing home care. It will, however, cover up to 60 days in a nursing home as part of convalescence after hospitalization.

(Part B) Medical Insurance pays for many medically necessary doctors' services, outpatient services, and some other medical services. Enrollees pay a monthly premium.

Agree with recent posts - take control. You've made a kind offer to care for your mum previously, but that doesn't mean you have to let everyone else make decisions before you do. You also have the right to change your mind. Email them with a calm statement and start looking for a home for your immediate family.

Your DH is pimping out your services so that he can benefit financially. He sees that your mother being around puts you under enormous strain, but he seems only interested in making sure this happens so he gets the money. He sounds vile and grabby and you seem resigned to the fact he is following his own interests at significant cost to you.

It's time to make it clear to all parties that you're no longer going to be the family doormat. It's time to tell everyone what YOU want and stick to your guns.

I feel very sorry for your husband. He has agreed to your mum staying until her eol with you as carer and took on the burden of a large loan on the basis of this agreement. Now you are all faffing around and no sign of the promised investment. It's a huge imposition to live and share with elderly frail relatives esp if they are in laws. You have taken him a bit for granted. It's time to be clear now and let your mum know she need to "pee or get off the pot".

My family are in almost exactly the same situation as yours except we are slightly further down the line. The Mum did sell and did invest in her daughter's house, leading to huge resentment from the son who later accused the daughter (his sister) of "manipulating a vulnerable person for money." They haven't spoken to each other for 5 years - the son has huge displays of hysterics with the mother - crying, "you love her more than you love me" etc and the mother feels awful. The son also stopped visiting so frequently and made her unwelcome in his house. What he did do - which made things even worse - was nitpick every time he did visit his mum in the daughter's house : reporting that the stairs were dangerous, the locks didn't work. Basically making a case for his mum being unsafe and the daughter being abusive. The mum, not wanting her kids to fall out and not seeing the seriousness of the situation says she "can't remember" details of the month agreements making it look even more like she has been manipulated into it. It has made everything hell.

My advice to you is whatever you do - don't take on complete and utter responsibility for your mother. It leaves you open to criticism and attacks and she will not help you or testify to things you've said because she loves her children equally and will not take sides.

amammi it was her DH that wanted this, not the OP!