Sh*t...my marriage could collapse AND I could fall out with family over this

[LionsNtigersNbearsOHMY]

I've been on here once before ages ago regarding this matter. I can't remember my former ID for this. I've had a name change since.

2 years ago, we bought a 4 bedroom house. We have 3 young kids ranging from teen years to baby. The verbal agreement was that my mother, who lives in the States, would sell up and move in with us giving us a proportion of the proceeds from the sale of her bungalow to help us pay down our mortgage and allow us all to stay in this house where she'd be looked after until her death. The idea is to never have to put her in a home. We made a commitment and over the years, mom's stays with us have gotten longer and longer. This last time, she stayed one year.

It's not easy, but it's not terrible either. We get along very well, husband especially loves mom, possibly more than me because I get the brunt of the carer stuff. Her mobility is reduced and she is 80 and in not such good health, so this is not easy, but she's not completely immobile yet and can still bathe herself and walk up and down the stairs. She's a warm, loving person but never, ever does anything for herself. Her hobby is me. I find this draining at times, but she's always been this way. I knew what I was taking on when we offered her to live with us. We did not make this decision lightly.

The thing is, in order for this to work in the house where we live, we need a proportion of mom's money from her house sale. She agreed to this, giving my brother a smaller proportion so that he has 'something'. This was discussed and agreed between mom and me/hubby two years ago. She has never discussed it much since. She went home to the states to stay with my brother 4 weeks ago and rang me the other day to say she's coming back in July. We're not ready to have her back. But basically, the long and short of it is, my brother and his wife- who have been living a marvellous champagne lifestyle (they are older with grown kids- this is his second wife, married two years)- are broke, skint, and now have to downsize into a flat and send my mother back here to stay with us (we so needed the breather after having her here so long and we anticipated she'd go back to stay with my brother for several months. That's how it's been the past 5 years.

My husband's stance is, no she can't come back until she deals with real life. She can't keep coming back and forth, living out a suitcase while everyone supports her financially. She needs to go home and decide what to do with the house she hasn't slept in for over 5 years. She just goes back and forth between my brother's in the States and my home here in the UK. She has left her house to rot. But in the past year my brother has been frantically doing up her house, without involving me in any aspect. I have no idea what's happened to mom's contents. She won't discuss her house with me at all other than to say, my brother is dealing with everything. He has now written to me to say that he is broke and downsizing. He can't have mom stay with him anymore and he's sending her back to me and renting her house out. He says she can live with us and live off the rent from her home.

Financially, this doesn't work for us because the idea was that we'd be able to pay down our house with mom's help and in return, support and house her until her death. She wouldn't need to pay for anything extra while living with us. She would not live like a tenant, paying a portion of the bills or anything. Life stuff would be on us. My husband has become terribly pushy about mom's situation. Basically, we have to sell if she doesn't come in on this house with us financially. And although she agreed to this verbally, I did warn my husband that while my brother did not agree to this, my mom would wax and wane, which is totally what's happened. Basically, she wants to make me happy and my brother happy. The long and short of it is that she keeps saying, "Yes, I'll invest with you" but has made no motion to do so. She does come and stay but hasn't shown us that she wants to 'live' here, if that makes sense. My brother does not want her to sell and give us any proceeds. He wants her to rent out her property and live with us but feels we should be able to support her without proceeds from her house. We would not have bought this house if we did not think she was going to invest with us. We wanted to buy a smaller house on the same road and that was the house we were going to be gunning for. But when mom said she would live with us and offer a lump sum to help with this, we made sure we secured this house. Everything would be put into place to protect her investment. We would make sure that if anything happened to my husband or to me or if we divorced, mom's investment would be protected.

Me? I don't want any of it anymore. It's all so messy. On the one hand, I feel like we're just sniffing around my mother's money and on the other hand, I see my hubby's point. She did say she'd like to sell her house and give us some not all of her proceeds in order to allow us to keep this house where she too can live. The bottom line is, we bought this house thinking she would go in with us on it because she wanted to. Now she just doesn't want to talk about it. She wants to come and stay but not discuss her future at all. The whole year she was here, we couldn't talk about it. We will have to sell and downsize because we can't reasonably sustain this large property without her help. This leaves her a bit stranded. But at the same time, it will make my brother happy because he did not- and he made this clear- not mom investing with us. He did not explain why or what his issues were, no matter how many email exchanges we've had. He just has made it clear that he doesn't want her investing with us. I don't know what he thinks is best for mom.

Mom is now very cagey about what she wants. I said to my husband that it's like we're communicating in Braille. We're all very civilised and nice to each other. Not one harsh word has been spoken. But behind each other's backs I am certain we all feel frustrated. Mom wants to live with us but I don't think she wants to invest with us. I would LOVE to house my mom for free. I hate needing money from her to make this work, I simply hate thus situation. It's become entirely about money.

My brother has taken over the refurbishment of her house completely and he ignores any emails I write discussing her home or her plans. He'll respond to my jokey emails where we discuss superficial stuff. But with regards to mom's finances or future, the wall goes up. And as I said, mom wants to live with us without discussing anything financial.

I feel like I'm the bad guy here. We have not pushed mom to sell. We have not pushed her to make a decision. But it's sort of crunch time for us. We have to decide how to manage a property we bought thinking she was coming in with us on it. I've told her not to come in July. I've told her we need to decide the way forward with our house. The possibility of selling is very real. As of April 2016, my husband will have a £15,000 income drop as well. So this came as a shock only two weeks ago.

Please tell me if I am unreasonable. I cannot see the forest for the trees and I need some honest advice and opinions, even if I come out looking bad.

My husband is angry. My brother's emails are becoming curt. And I feel like I'm just trying to avoid a huge family bust up. My mom is footloose and fancy free. I don't think she's given anything much thought. And I feel a bit angry with her for this. It's all about "Where will I go now? I want to avoid the California summer. I think I'll come back to England." But she's not understanding that she's dealing with children who have their own worries and need to make long-term plans with or without her on board. Thank you in advance.

I feel for you - it must be so stressful.
If you remove everyone else's needs and desires from the equation for a second - your husband's, your brother's, your mum's - what do YOU most want to happen? Do you want to remain in the current house and have your mum full time? Or would you prefer to live in a smaller house and just have occasional visits from your mum? It can be difficult to do this - you can get so lost in everyone else's emotional needs, but try to ignore that for a second. Imagine the happiest future for YOU - what does that look like?
I'm not normally an advocate of this kind of approach at all, but given the way all of the others are behaving, I think you need to decide on what YOU want and pursue it relentlessly - otherwise you'll tear yourself to pieces trying to meet all of their conflicting demands on you. You have just as much right to be happy as anyone else here, and as it doesn't sound like the rest of them are going to start fighting to advance your happiness any time soon, I think it's something you're going to do for yourself.
Also if you can try to decide whether you still want to be with your husband, and what changes would have to happen in your marriage to make you happy. I think this is something you may need to fight for too.
Good luck. For what it's worth, I think you sound like a lovely, thoughtful person who is trying to do what's right; you don't sound money grabbing at all to me.

Well it is actually not so complicated. But you have to be frank & say without the money she proposed investing you will have to sell the property (that you would never have bought if she hadn't offered) & then it will not be suitable to have her in. I can see why your brother is unhappy, but live-in care costs about 6K a month in the UK, without food, & utilities, so her money is not going to cover her old age. The house will have to be sold at some point.
I agree that your brother is probably hoping to move in himself.

If the money goes into your house and you ultimately get divorced, then that money will be divided up between you and your husband as part of the settlement. I am not sure how big a risk this is for you, but it is a factor to be considered, given what you have said about your relationship, and should be carefully thought through. If it is to be a loan from your mother then check that it is properly documented.

It's not clear to me if you can manage to maintain repayments on your home at present why you can't going forward.

The OP explained that they were about to have a drop in income.

I would like my mom to not live with us. I find it too demanding. It's harsh but it's true. It doesn't mean this will happen because I have made a commitment to her, I do love her, and I don't want to back out on this. But my true wish would be to not have my mother live with us. I really feel like Cinderella when she's here. I just fall into bed at 12:30-1am every night because between her, my husband, and 3 kids, there's just way too much to do. I don't manage well when she is here. I always remain upbeat and supportive and in a good mood. But my husband and I argue a lot when she's here. I always have this resentment towards him because I feel a bit forced into this. But she's MY mother and I feel great shame in admitting my inability to be a genuinely good daughter. In my fantasies, my brother would just get the house and settle down. I don't want her money. My husband does. And I support his stance because he bought this house based on a plan of action that isn't happening. So I do get my husband. I get his anger and disappointment. But from an emotional point of view, I don't look forward to living with my mom. She's a very nice person but incredibly dependent and needy. I find it really hard. And this is absolutely a fact, when my mom is here, this keeps my husband from having to 'deal' with me and I actually think this is a real plus for him.

It's such a difficult situation and you and your Mom are piggy in the middle between your hubby and brother who both have their eyes on your Mom's assets.

If you can't resolve where your Mom lives (which obviously comes at a cost) Could your Mom sell her house in the US and use the proceeds to buy a small apartment/ house close to you ? You can keep an eye on her as needed and she can use some of the proceeds of the sale for home help for the practical stuff.

To be fair, the original proposal you had between you is very commonplace, I know lots of parents who have sold up their homes and used the proceeds to build a little granny flat onto one of their kids homes, or who upsized so their parents could live with them.

My PIL are extending their home so my SIL can live with them to look after them and my husband has been told that his SIL will be the sole inheritor of the house My husband is fine with that, in fact, its a huge relief for him to know that she is prepared to take it on, as we live overseas and cannot help with their care/ He accepts it is a huge commitment on her behalf, so she deserves to keep their home when her parents eventually pass on.

I guess the mistake in your situation is that nothing was formally agreed, and now your Mom is backing out for fear of upsetting your brother (or your brother has been 'working' on her)

The whole idea of viewing it as an 'investment' is probably a wrong perspective too, because the fact is, you are ensuring that she always has a home with a loved one who will take care of her as she ages, which is a lovely option and very kind of you to take it on, and to do that you need a home where you can all comfortably be accommodated in, it's such a shame it has gone belly-up at this point.

I hope you can get it resolved soon.

crumpet i have thought about this. In the past year, while mom was here, I have considered divorce on more than one occasion. My hubby is a good guy but we have stuff. When mom leaves, our marriage improves. She puts an undoubted strain on our marriage when she's here, not because she's a problem or a difficult person, but because I get overworked and knackered and I feel unsupported by my hubby when she is here. I feel very left to it. She has lots of health issues, so I am up at the hospital a lot with her when she is here. And I feel this year, my kids were put on the backburner. I have a teen struggling in school, a primary schooler, and a toddler under foot. So I am stretched anyway, in a lovely way, but I find I don't have much stamina for my kids ironically because mom sort of takes a lot out of me. She is housebound pretty much. Taking her out is a great ordeal... lots of stopping and waiting and resting, which I don't mind. But with three kids and all that comes with that package, my life is almost too hectic for mom, I find. I feel awful saying this. But this is how I FEEL. But what mom, in her twilight years, NEEDS trumps what I FEEL simply because she needs me now. She needs support and I should give it.

Agree that you need to check she is entitled to care under the NHS having been away for 20 years.

Another thought, if your mum has lived with you for a year and seen first hand that your marriage isn't the strongest, it could be she's gone back to the US and told your DB that she fears you'll get divorced. In that case, the change of plan to move to renting out her house and giving you that as "board/keep" makes sense as an attempt to save the asset for the family. It's one thing giving a lump sum to your DC in exchange for care in old age, another to give a lump sum to your adult DC, with the chances of half of it going to her exH and then her not being able to afford to keep you in old age so having to go into a care home after all, but now with less money to buy 'good' care.

If there is a possiblity in the next few years you might end your marriage, your plan to care for your mum in her old age might well have to be shelved.

I would suggest a trip to California too. Talk to your DB face to face, see what state the house is in yourself, even book an appointment with real estate agent to talk though what that house could reasonably be expected to make if sold vs rented out.

another thought, under UK law, she would have to live 7 years after giving you a gift of that size for you not to have to pay IT on it. If she's 80 and not in good health now, is it likely that you'll see 7 years? It's also worth checking the international dimention, what would also have to be paid in the US.

Just read your last post., ((hugs))

I think a small place local to you would be a great option for everyone, she has her independence, you can keep an eye on her and your brother's 50% eventual inheritance will be assured.

Y
our DH will be pretty pissed off though, but it is what it is and he just has to live with it.

mairead10 thank you. I thought taking on the brunt of 'looking after mom' would be a relief to my brother. I expected it to work out the way it has for your hubby and SIL. I suppose I didn't anticipate how big the money aspect of the situation was going to be.

If you want to look after your mum, that's your choice, don't let people here put you off.

To be honest, with the level of care she requires, I would personally be considering a flat for her near you in a retirement village/sheltered accommodation. You can be very involved with her, but not have the 24/7 demands.

That would mean selling her U.S. property and buying here, and she would need the full amount, so neither you nor your brother could take a portion while she's alive.

Reading your last post, I think that actually, you should think that your DCs needs should come before your mothers. As much as you have made a commitment to her, she's not made the other side commitment to you, so at the moment, that is up in the air still.

Your DCs need your time and energy, not the scraps left, and it would be better for your DCs if your marriage doesn't break down. Your mom's needs are only going to get greater.

A smaller property for your family and a small flat in a sheltered accomodation for your mom near you might be the best all round. Keep some money to pay for additional care help, so if she still feels uncomfortable calling it care, using the money to pay for a cleaner who'll also do her laudry, arrange for food to be delivered when the cleaner is there to put it away etc, as time goes on and she needs personal care, look at hiring people to help - but by setting her up not to be in your home, you can dedicate set amounts of time to see her and she won't be adding extra work load to your home. (But I would say you'd be best doing a few days in California to find out what the real situation is and having some super frank conversations with your DB)

Oh Lions you have SO MUCH to cope with. Just having a toddler is exhausting and relentless. Never mind the other two kids, the moody husband, the resentful brother and the needy mother.

I really do feel for you. You sound utterly squashed by what everyone else wants and thinks and needs and is secretly thinking but not saying.

I know this is a cliche MN question but are you getting any counselling? You really sound like you could do with a bit of time each week focused on YOU alone to help get a bit of perspective on all the things weighing down on you. Its impossible to detach the property from the elderly parent and also the future of your relationship, because each affects the other so much.

Masses of

I think it's entirely possible she is weary about handing over money. I did say to hubby that we needed to lay a plan of action if a)one or both of us dies before her, b)she does not live much longer after moving in with us, or c) we divorce.
You have to discuss these things. He won't. He just gets very angry. It's difficult.

If the flat was sold the OP would have to pay capital gains tax anyway on her portion, and the inheritance tax threshold is £325,000.

Your brother is stuffing you. Sorry. And you mother is probably colluding with it/not wanting to see.

PS Or just pick your favourite child and run away to your mum's empty house in California. No one will think to look for you there right under their noses

Shafting you! Sorry.

I wouldn't bother discussing this with your husband if he's being difficult. If he won't talk about it then don't bother. He's made it clear he wants her money, so I would leave him to it.

The right decision between you your mum and your brother are what will define ultimately what you end up doing with the family home. So I would focus on that.

Is there a reason you hadn't addressed the issue of whether your brother may be playing dirty?

I think it sounds like you should pull out of the deal because caring for your mother and three children is just going to be too much for you, particularly with an unstable marriage.

Your mum would be better off in a retirement community, either here on in the US.

Have you seen your mothers will? Your brother being cagey isn't a good sign.

If your marriage is under strain with your mother present what will it be like if she is with you permanently?

All you need to do is present the options to your mother. If she decides to come stay ask that proof is provided to you that her house is on the market.

Tell her that if you down size of course she is welcome for a few weeks here and there but that's it due to the practicalities of it all.

i get a feeling your brother isn't telling you something.

I'm afraid I'm another who thinks your brother's "incredibly evasive and non-committal" attitude suggests there's a lot you're not being told - but then your own mum isn't being very straight either, is she? As a PP said she appears to be appeasing the last person she stayed with, and a joint discussion - while an excellent idea - may not be possible; senior folk often revert to "I'm confused" ... "I don't feel well" ... "Let's leave it to another day" in circumstances like this, leaving you feeling guilty but no further forward

To avoid making a complex situation much worse I'd strongly suggest that you shouldn't, under any circumstances, have her to stay until this is sorted out properly - if she has to return to her house and pay for support for a short time, so be it. The awful alternative could be that you're stuck with her living at yours with nowhere else to go, that the unresolved finances get gradually worse and that everyone except your brother becomes more and more stressed and unhappy

If your mother did come to live with you and you and your DH receive the money from her, then what happens if you divorce OP. Would your house be sold and your DH receives half while you are left looking after your mother and your he gains financially.

It's a bad idea, you would be better off selling your house, downsizing and put your energy into looking after your children. Your mother could possibly be better off buying a retirement home near your brother.

I think your mother has had a change of heart and doesn't want to put her money into your mortgage, which is a good thing because the current plans are not to yours, your children's or her best interests.

Leaving all emotions aside it looks like:

A) Your DH jumped the gun, rubbing his hands together in glee, and coerced you into agreeing to be a full time carer in return for his financial gain. His anger is misplaced as he is the architect of his own 'disappointment'. Of course he adores your mother - she's a cash cow.

B) You're needs and wishes are currently ranked as unimportant by everybody. This is because you are nice. And because you have uterus. How many kids does your brother have? Did he help look after your father? Why is it you have to do all the work and sacrifice your life? If he's poor now maybe he should have the 2/3 share and look after his mother?

C)Your mental health is actually THE most important thing. How are you supposed to do ANYTHING - raise your kids OR look after an old lady - if you're crushed?

D) Your brother is selfish. You can't fight that by being reasonable. You have to be more selfish yourself. If the deal is off you have to start from scratch and make a new deal BEFORE you let your mother back home because it'll be easier for you to stay firm when she's not hanging around being so charming.

E) If your marriage is under strain you would be foolish to invest your mother's money in a house that will just become 50% your husbands if you divorce. Don't say you will stick with your marriage - he may well be rubbing his hands together as we speak.

F) Your mother can't have everything her own way. Imagine your three kids were in this position, in danger of falling out over money you keep with holding so you don't piss off the others?

Good luck!

Thank you everyone!! WOW! What a fantastically helpful collection of responses. Twinklestein thank you very much. You're right, I have not really addressed the issue that my brother may be playing 'dirty'. This has occurred to me over and over. And what comes with that realisation is that mom would have to have handed over some control to him. If he is doing up her house, presumably he is using her money and how would he have gotten access to those funds while she was here during the past 12 months?

I just recently got an email telling me that he is in a financial state. He was very down in the email and it was a very blunt email about his finances. He said that this was why mom had to come back. He has to move to a smaller place and could no longer accommodate her. Her home is not in a livable state because he's too busy fixing it up in between work so she can't stay there, he claims. She has to come back to stay with me. I haven't responded. More and more I am thinking they've both borrowed against her house, presumably for the renovation... maybe more? He seems determined to get her back here next month.I feel she should stick around to get her house sorted and decide what she really wants to do.

But I suppose the thing is, if we didn't 'need' the money to go into this house we're currently in, I actually- hand on heart- wouldn't care if mom was helping out her struggling son and gave him everything. My inheritance was something I never really gave much thought to. I've never seen a will. I know there's a trust in place with regards to the house and its contents. But those discussions of what will happen when mom goes have never happened. Mom certainly hasn't had those talks with us and in a way, I would expect her to be the one to want to initiate that talk. She never has done and of course, I've never asked. My father in law is the direct opposite. They talk death and taxes openly in my husband's famiy. So where I think they're a bit crass, he thinks we're foolish. Me thinks he's right in this case!