Sh*t...my marriage could collapse AND I could fall out with family over this

[LionsNtigersNbearsOHMY]

I've been on here once before ages ago regarding this matter. I can't remember my former ID for this. I've had a name change since.

2 years ago, we bought a 4 bedroom house. We have 3 young kids ranging from teen years to baby. The verbal agreement was that my mother, who lives in the States, would sell up and move in with us giving us a proportion of the proceeds from the sale of her bungalow to help us pay down our mortgage and allow us all to stay in this house where she'd be looked after until her death. The idea is to never have to put her in a home. We made a commitment and over the years, mom's stays with us have gotten longer and longer. This last time, she stayed one year.

It's not easy, but it's not terrible either. We get along very well, husband especially loves mom, possibly more than me because I get the brunt of the carer stuff. Her mobility is reduced and she is 80 and in not such good health, so this is not easy, but she's not completely immobile yet and can still bathe herself and walk up and down the stairs. She's a warm, loving person but never, ever does anything for herself. Her hobby is me. I find this draining at times, but she's always been this way. I knew what I was taking on when we offered her to live with us. We did not make this decision lightly.

The thing is, in order for this to work in the house where we live, we need a proportion of mom's money from her house sale. She agreed to this, giving my brother a smaller proportion so that he has 'something'. This was discussed and agreed between mom and me/hubby two years ago. She has never discussed it much since. She went home to the states to stay with my brother 4 weeks ago and rang me the other day to say she's coming back in July. We're not ready to have her back. But basically, the long and short of it is, my brother and his wife- who have been living a marvellous champagne lifestyle (they are older with grown kids- this is his second wife, married two years)- are broke, skint, and now have to downsize into a flat and send my mother back here to stay with us (we so needed the breather after having her here so long and we anticipated she'd go back to stay with my brother for several months. That's how it's been the past 5 years.

My husband's stance is, no she can't come back until she deals with real life. She can't keep coming back and forth, living out a suitcase while everyone supports her financially. She needs to go home and decide what to do with the house she hasn't slept in for over 5 years. She just goes back and forth between my brother's in the States and my home here in the UK. She has left her house to rot. But in the past year my brother has been frantically doing up her house, without involving me in any aspect. I have no idea what's happened to mom's contents. She won't discuss her house with me at all other than to say, my brother is dealing with everything. He has now written to me to say that he is broke and downsizing. He can't have mom stay with him anymore and he's sending her back to me and renting her house out. He says she can live with us and live off the rent from her home.

Financially, this doesn't work for us because the idea was that we'd be able to pay down our house with mom's help and in return, support and house her until her death. She wouldn't need to pay for anything extra while living with us. She would not live like a tenant, paying a portion of the bills or anything. Life stuff would be on us. My husband has become terribly pushy about mom's situation. Basically, we have to sell if she doesn't come in on this house with us financially. And although she agreed to this verbally, I did warn my husband that while my brother did not agree to this, my mom would wax and wane, which is totally what's happened. Basically, she wants to make me happy and my brother happy. The long and short of it is that she keeps saying, "Yes, I'll invest with you" but has made no motion to do so. She does come and stay but hasn't shown us that she wants to 'live' here, if that makes sense. My brother does not want her to sell and give us any proceeds. He wants her to rent out her property and live with us but feels we should be able to support her without proceeds from her house. We would not have bought this house if we did not think she was going to invest with us. We wanted to buy a smaller house on the same road and that was the house we were going to be gunning for. But when mom said she would live with us and offer a lump sum to help with this, we made sure we secured this house. Everything would be put into place to protect her investment. We would make sure that if anything happened to my husband or to me or if we divorced, mom's investment would be protected.

Me? I don't want any of it anymore. It's all so messy. On the one hand, I feel like we're just sniffing around my mother's money and on the other hand, I see my hubby's point. She did say she'd like to sell her house and give us some not all of her proceeds in order to allow us to keep this house where she too can live. The bottom line is, we bought this house thinking she would go in with us on it because she wanted to. Now she just doesn't want to talk about it. She wants to come and stay but not discuss her future at all. The whole year she was here, we couldn't talk about it. We will have to sell and downsize because we can't reasonably sustain this large property without her help. This leaves her a bit stranded. But at the same time, it will make my brother happy because he did not- and he made this clear- not mom investing with us. He did not explain why or what his issues were, no matter how many email exchanges we've had. He just has made it clear that he doesn't want her investing with us. I don't know what he thinks is best for mom.

Mom is now very cagey about what she wants. I said to my husband that it's like we're communicating in Braille. We're all very civilised and nice to each other. Not one harsh word has been spoken. But behind each other's backs I am certain we all feel frustrated. Mom wants to live with us but I don't think she wants to invest with us. I would LOVE to house my mom for free. I hate needing money from her to make this work, I simply hate thus situation. It's become entirely about money.

My brother has taken over the refurbishment of her house completely and he ignores any emails I write discussing her home or her plans. He'll respond to my jokey emails where we discuss superficial stuff. But with regards to mom's finances or future, the wall goes up. And as I said, mom wants to live with us without discussing anything financial.

I feel like I'm the bad guy here. We have not pushed mom to sell. We have not pushed her to make a decision. But it's sort of crunch time for us. We have to decide how to manage a property we bought thinking she was coming in with us on it. I've told her not to come in July. I've told her we need to decide the way forward with our house. The possibility of selling is very real. As of April 2016, my husband will have a £15,000 income drop as well. So this came as a shock only two weeks ago.

Please tell me if I am unreasonable. I cannot see the forest for the trees and I need some honest advice and opinions, even if I come out looking bad.

My husband is angry. My brother's emails are becoming curt. And I feel like I'm just trying to avoid a huge family bust up. My mom is footloose and fancy free. I don't think she's given anything much thought. And I feel a bit angry with her for this. It's all about "Where will I go now? I want to avoid the California summer. I think I'll come back to England." But she's not understanding that she's dealing with children who have their own worries and need to make long-term plans with or without her on board. Thank you in advance.

shovetheholly has got it exactly. If she has any entitlement to NHS care, she'd be better off back in Britain but it may be better for all of you if she is cared for by others. I think hully is right about going to the States to do this face to face too. Good luck, I have elderly parents too and it's hard.

I think you are skimming over that, when it is entirely relevant. What do you want?

OP I didn't mean you shouldn't talk about your husband here, it's all part and parcel of the same problem. I simply meant your husband is clearly a big problem in himself that you need support with.

What I would really want is for mom to remain where her house is. If you saw this place you'd wonder why on earth she would leave such a place. She's in Santa Barbara, California. It's the retirement home she bought with dad many moons ago...20 years in fact. But then, I don't want her to be alone. She does not want to live in a home of any kind or assisted living.

But then of course, living with us means she gets to be with us and that has its enormous benefits too. The kids adore her. Though it is undoubtedly very hard managing an elderly woman with poor mobility here in London. I found this year with her harder than ever. But that's life and I knew what having mom would involve. At home in California, she needs to drive and can no longer do so. But she lives in a community of retirees and young families who equally love her and have been so helpful to her over the years. So she's clearly a very liked person wherever she goes.

Over here she has me to help her get around, feed her, do her washing and ironing, I make her appointments for her hair, her GPS and hospital appointments. So it's full on but manageable. But I won't lie... I do love the breather and feel a bit depressed at the prospect of her living with us. I will have no life. I know this. But hey, she's my mom. I can't let her down.

At least... that's how it was with the neighbours before she sort of deserted her property 5 years ago. Because that's basically what she's done. She just leaves the house and doesn't live in it. Her neighbours are still in touch with her. They look after her house when she is at my brother's or here with me in the UK. They make sure nothing untoward is going on. But when she lived there, they were all hands on, driving her around, getting her food, inviting her for coffee. She is an incredibly lucky lady. I'd live there!!

Phew, Lion, what a raw deal.

I think your brother has his own agenda. If your mother already has a separate income unrelated to the house; and has not rented it out in 5 years, why now?
I think either he wants it for himself or wants to drag out the sale long enough until your mother dies. Then he can get 50% (if not more by claiming he paid for renovations; without having done any looking after her, except for the occasional visits.

Either way, I'm sorry to say but I get the feeling your mother will throw her hands up and say 'what can I do' once your brother has either moved in or has rented it out. And as he can't look after her, she will be with you already and you will be stuck.

I also think your husband should have listened to you. Only it looks like every time your lips moved he heard 'dollar, dollar, dollar'.

He likes your mother more than you do? I doubt it. I think its more likely a case of 'real money, real love'.
No doubt he will quickly get over his anger and forgive your mother should she come through as initially planned.

You don't sound grabby at all. You sound like a daughter any mother would be proud to have.

Good luck.

P.S. Totally agree that you should go over there yourself.

I would argue that your mother has let you down here by not wanting to face the future. Its all been brushed under the carpet.

Its all very well her saying that she does not want to live in a home; its a selfish attitude of hers because she wants you to look after her. She wants instead to come and live in your home and for you by default to become her carer.

What if it comes to pass (a not unlikely scenario) that you can no longer manage her at all and she has to go into assisted living accommodation or a home?. She can do self care currently but what when she cannot, are you going to clean her and lift her to go to the toilet?. The parent and child roles will be reversed completely.

The kids may "adore" her currently but things change; if they see you as parents become more stressed out and worried by what is happening at home then that will affect them. She will become an interloper. A permanent move for her could be the wrong move on many levels for you all.

It was very hard for you last time and it will not get easier; being a carer anyway is a thankless task and you also do not have your H's full support in this either. You will also need outside support and a break. Someone will break here and that is going to be you under the strain of it all.

But there is something untoward going on. Your brother is doing up the house and you've no idea what's happened to the contents. What of your mum's belongings, does she know what he's done with them?

If he's broke and he's spending money on a property you can be sure as he'll he's expecting to get something out of it financially sooner rather than later.

If he somehow managed to get power of attorney while your mum was staying with you in the UK, and he sold the house, how would you get the money back?

Alternative if he takes a bigger cut and offers you less than you need and still expects you to house your mum, what would you do then?

Khalisi - exactly!

YANBU. This is a complicated situation and decisions should have been made with all three of you (Mum Brother and you) all discussing things. This hasn't happened. You might have to downsize too. No. Why can she not sell her house and buy a small apartment. I think going on with the original plan of her selling her house and giving you some of the money is a recipe for disaster and there will be no end to the row over who gets what. It's her money after all.

I feel for you OP. Even if she does decide to sell and come back to you, it sounds pretty overwhelming for you. My mum is elderly and in London but luckily she has lovely local shops just round the corner so she's quite independent. If she lived on a hill just five minutes away she would be stuck indoors by now, waiting for me to give her lifts anywhere. What I'm saying is is your home/ location suitable for her anyway? Would she be more independent in a different location? Maybe the best solution is for her and bro to live together?
I would find a way to keep your house anyway. It will only go up in value being in London so just find a way to do it and tell your husband he can't rely on your mum to pay off the mortgage. Rent a room, get a longer mortgage, charge your kids rent! (Sorry can't remember how old they are!), get part time work if you aren't already. More flowers for you.

I also agree with Atilla. No one is actually obliged to care for their parents, don't forget that.

You and your brother are in the same position, actually. Neither of you can afford to have her there without her paying for it, just as she would pay to go into a care home (in the states anyway). Her house needs selling and she needs to help him get a house big enough, or help you proceed with plan A, the house you bought in anticipation of this. Rental income won't do it.

You may need to go with her to her house in the US, and force her and brother to face these facts. Brother is being so cagey: Has mother actually seen her house in the last 5 years? Could brother be misleading her, and you about the status of it currently? Is it possible the house is so impossibly deteriorated that even if sold, the funds wont be enough? Has he been secretly renting it out already? Has he secretly sold it already?

This a horrible situation for you but your Mother is a grown up. She has to make a decision about where she wants to be. Personally I think if she wants to be in the UK you need to sell your house and buy one you can afford and your Mum needs to buy/rent somewhere near you on the proceeds of her American house sale.
You want to do the right thing but having her in your space all the time would be incredibly hard and you would be trying to please her, trying to please your Dh who wants a big house and in the process make yourself miserable for the next 10 plus years.
Your brother is being a total knob quite frankly. He wants the American house and wash his hands of his responsibility for his mother. Don't let him. Just hope she hasn't signed over the house to him already. You need to do what is right for you and your children.

Agree you should fly out there
Are you able to all sit around a table with an accountant and talk through the three options you could present and perhaps any option your mum and do could possibly present with the idea of making a decision once and for all and put it in writing a contract?

I worry that if she comes here, what visa status will she qualify for? Will she qualify for various OAP schemes here, having never been a taxpayer? How does she get on the NHS? How do you access further care for her if you become incapacitated?

I think you need to have a conversation with your mother and explain to her what her inability to make a decision is doing to your family. She may be a lovely lady but she is being very unfair to you and potentially causing serious issues in your marriage.

Maybe you should suggest 50/50 on the house and 50/50 on where she lives (between you and your brother) as that is what she seems to be doing anyway (just without giving either of you any money at the moment). Obviously, there could be a time where she has to stay with one of you as she will be too old to travel.

The other thing is, could she have promised your brother more money without letting you know so now she doesn't know what to do?

I agree with what everyone says. Bear in mind, you can look after your mum now, but she could quite easily end up needing nursing care that you can't provide. If she needs to go into a nursing home, and it could happen quite suddenly, she will have to pay from the proceeds of her house. (Unless your H is prepared to lie about her assets, or expect you to do this caring 24/7.) This could easily cost upwards of £1k a week, probably more, so her money would go quickly in any case. It's not sensible that you rely on her money to live in your house. (It would perhaps be a different situation if you had originally bought the house using her money.)

Incidentally, you wouldn't be letting her down by not having her live with you, should it be too much. You can still visit her regularly - every day even, if she lives near you.

The thing is, regardless of whether your husband has £ in his eyes or your brother is planning an asset grab, you have a very real decision to make now.

You can't afford to stay in the house you're in without your mother selling her house and giving you a portion of the proceeds.
If you downsize your mother will not be able to live with you so realistic arrangements will have to be made for her care.

You're not out of order to make these two connected points to your mother and brother as it just cannot drift any further - it feels like you are all sleep walking into catastrophe.

Make clear you are not after your mother's money and you are quite happy to have a smaller home paid for entirely by you and DH but this will mean your mother cannot live with you. Give them a date by which some action must be taken or you will have to market your house. Tell them what action you would need to see taken.

You can't carry on in this limbo.

If you need a break from your mum - how will you cope with her ft? Did you want a break because you don't want to confront her about the money? I think your family needs to sit down and have an honest talk and then be sure to back up decisions with action and LEGAL documentation. It will be hard and you seem so nice that you will probably feel like the bad guy but it does have to be done.

I feel for you DH and DM, as others have said it's crunch time.
Put it simply kindly and gently, it seems like you will be able to move on as soon as a decision is made as long as it is followed through strictly and swiftly.

If your mother emigrated 20 years ago, she will not be entitled to NHS care if she decides to move back to Britain.

I don't think you can afford to have her move back here even if you get 100% of the proceeds of her house sale.

She lives in California. You and your brother need to figure out a way she can have a comfortable old age there.

Your mom has a home of her own. I think it is time to say in writing that she cannot come to stay with you and force her to return to her own home until the situation is resolved one way or the other. Set it out in writing that on her assurances you invested in a property which could accommodate her but that you will need to downsize if she wishes to remain in California and your family cannot continue to service such a huge mortgage.

This will force a situation where if your brother has radically refurbished her home and disposed of her belongings the writing will be on the wall so to speak. If there is nothing there for her to emotionally attach to, she may be prepared to make a decision one way or the other.

Is her home big enough to share with your brother and his wife? A 50:50 inheritance split along with 50:50 care is probably the only reasonable outcome for your family in terms of fall-out and long term accord. It's debatable at 80 though, how long she can continue to fly the Atlantic spending 6 month on and 6 months off.

It's not clear to me if you can manage to maintain repayments on your home at present why you can't going forward. It's possibly this that is creating this laissez faire attitude.