Sh*t...my marriage could collapse AND I could fall out with family over this

[LionsNtigersNbearsOHMY]

I've been on here once before ages ago regarding this matter. I can't remember my former ID for this. I've had a name change since.

2 years ago, we bought a 4 bedroom house. We have 3 young kids ranging from teen years to baby. The verbal agreement was that my mother, who lives in the States, would sell up and move in with us giving us a proportion of the proceeds from the sale of her bungalow to help us pay down our mortgage and allow us all to stay in this house where she'd be looked after until her death. The idea is to never have to put her in a home. We made a commitment and over the years, mom's stays with us have gotten longer and longer. This last time, she stayed one year.

It's not easy, but it's not terrible either. We get along very well, husband especially loves mom, possibly more than me because I get the brunt of the carer stuff. Her mobility is reduced and she is 80 and in not such good health, so this is not easy, but she's not completely immobile yet and can still bathe herself and walk up and down the stairs. She's a warm, loving person but never, ever does anything for herself. Her hobby is me. I find this draining at times, but she's always been this way. I knew what I was taking on when we offered her to live with us. We did not make this decision lightly.

The thing is, in order for this to work in the house where we live, we need a proportion of mom's money from her house sale. She agreed to this, giving my brother a smaller proportion so that he has 'something'. This was discussed and agreed between mom and me/hubby two years ago. She has never discussed it much since. She went home to the states to stay with my brother 4 weeks ago and rang me the other day to say she's coming back in July. We're not ready to have her back. But basically, the long and short of it is, my brother and his wife- who have been living a marvellous champagne lifestyle (they are older with grown kids- this is his second wife, married two years)- are broke, skint, and now have to downsize into a flat and send my mother back here to stay with us (we so needed the breather after having her here so long and we anticipated she'd go back to stay with my brother for several months. That's how it's been the past 5 years.

My husband's stance is, no she can't come back until she deals with real life. She can't keep coming back and forth, living out a suitcase while everyone supports her financially. She needs to go home and decide what to do with the house she hasn't slept in for over 5 years. She just goes back and forth between my brother's in the States and my home here in the UK. She has left her house to rot. But in the past year my brother has been frantically doing up her house, without involving me in any aspect. I have no idea what's happened to mom's contents. She won't discuss her house with me at all other than to say, my brother is dealing with everything. He has now written to me to say that he is broke and downsizing. He can't have mom stay with him anymore and he's sending her back to me and renting her house out. He says she can live with us and live off the rent from her home.

Financially, this doesn't work for us because the idea was that we'd be able to pay down our house with mom's help and in return, support and house her until her death. She wouldn't need to pay for anything extra while living with us. She would not live like a tenant, paying a portion of the bills or anything. Life stuff would be on us. My husband has become terribly pushy about mom's situation. Basically, we have to sell if she doesn't come in on this house with us financially. And although she agreed to this verbally, I did warn my husband that while my brother did not agree to this, my mom would wax and wane, which is totally what's happened. Basically, she wants to make me happy and my brother happy. The long and short of it is that she keeps saying, "Yes, I'll invest with you" but has made no motion to do so. She does come and stay but hasn't shown us that she wants to 'live' here, if that makes sense. My brother does not want her to sell and give us any proceeds. He wants her to rent out her property and live with us but feels we should be able to support her without proceeds from her house. We would not have bought this house if we did not think she was going to invest with us. We wanted to buy a smaller house on the same road and that was the house we were going to be gunning for. But when mom said she would live with us and offer a lump sum to help with this, we made sure we secured this house. Everything would be put into place to protect her investment. We would make sure that if anything happened to my husband or to me or if we divorced, mom's investment would be protected.

Me? I don't want any of it anymore. It's all so messy. On the one hand, I feel like we're just sniffing around my mother's money and on the other hand, I see my hubby's point. She did say she'd like to sell her house and give us some not all of her proceeds in order to allow us to keep this house where she too can live. The bottom line is, we bought this house thinking she would go in with us on it because she wanted to. Now she just doesn't want to talk about it. She wants to come and stay but not discuss her future at all. The whole year she was here, we couldn't talk about it. We will have to sell and downsize because we can't reasonably sustain this large property without her help. This leaves her a bit stranded. But at the same time, it will make my brother happy because he did not- and he made this clear- not mom investing with us. He did not explain why or what his issues were, no matter how many email exchanges we've had. He just has made it clear that he doesn't want her investing with us. I don't know what he thinks is best for mom.

Mom is now very cagey about what she wants. I said to my husband that it's like we're communicating in Braille. We're all very civilised and nice to each other. Not one harsh word has been spoken. But behind each other's backs I am certain we all feel frustrated. Mom wants to live with us but I don't think she wants to invest with us. I would LOVE to house my mom for free. I hate needing money from her to make this work, I simply hate thus situation. It's become entirely about money.

My brother has taken over the refurbishment of her house completely and he ignores any emails I write discussing her home or her plans. He'll respond to my jokey emails where we discuss superficial stuff. But with regards to mom's finances or future, the wall goes up. And as I said, mom wants to live with us without discussing anything financial.

I feel like I'm the bad guy here. We have not pushed mom to sell. We have not pushed her to make a decision. But it's sort of crunch time for us. We have to decide how to manage a property we bought thinking she was coming in with us on it. I've told her not to come in July. I've told her we need to decide the way forward with our house. The possibility of selling is very real. As of April 2016, my husband will have a £15,000 income drop as well. So this came as a shock only two weeks ago.

Please tell me if I am unreasonable. I cannot see the forest for the trees and I need some honest advice and opinions, even if I come out looking bad.

My husband is angry. My brother's emails are becoming curt. And I feel like I'm just trying to avoid a huge family bust up. My mom is footloose and fancy free. I don't think she's given anything much thought. And I feel a bit angry with her for this. It's all about "Where will I go now? I want to avoid the California summer. I think I'll come back to England." But she's not understanding that she's dealing with children who have their own worries and need to make long-term plans with or without her on board. Thank you in advance.

Hooty it's not clear - was the original choice to offer to care for her mum not the OPs?

OP, as someone who knows all to well the Cinderella feeling you mention.....

I can actually see some light at the end of the tunnel for you here.

You have found caring for her this past year has not been good for your mental or emotional health and if you had your secret wish it would be for your mother not to live with you...

IF your mum had invested in your property as was originally agreed, you would basically be stuffed now as it would be difficult to remove her from her permanent home.

BUT you have the opportunity to now stop this becoming a permanent feature.

Added to this you have the financial squeeze to get you out of the agreement without having to be honest about how draining you found it...you can just use the changed financial cirucmstances.

This is an opportunity to do what you need for yourself

OP

I am going to be as blunt and to the point as you need to be.

You are being far too 'nice' and must grasp the nettle.

Put in place some adult to adult style communications, instead of all the subservient signals you are sending. Look up Transactional Analysis- you might find some of the models it uses helpful.

Do NOT have your elderly mother living with you, under ANY circumstances. Just don't do it. It will wreck your emotional and physical health, deprive your three children of the time and attention they need and deserve in their formative years, and further jeopardise your marriage.

Forget all about cash injections and paying down the mortgage.

So, how about something like this for the email:

Dear Mom and Bro

We need to let you know that our financial situation has deteriorated significantly and so we will be putting our house on the market very shortly, and buying a smaller property that we can afford, given that dh's income has significantly reduced.

This means unfortunately that we won't have space for MOM to stay with us. Even a short term stay is not possible currently as we will be putting the house on the market and we won't know how much space we will have to spare in the new house.

We realise this will come as rather a shock, but I'm sure you'll understand that we must make this move sooner rather than later.

So Mom will need to urgently re-think her plans for her housing and care, and we are both more than happy to join a Skype discussion about this to help her think through the various alternative options that would enable her to live independently in a smaller property - either in the US or over here in the UK.

OP and DH.

Words that is exactly it in a nutshell, in my view. None of this "we were expecting you to invest" emotional blackmail business, and no foggy "we want you to live with us, but" distractions.

The whole cash injection and looking after until death was all ridiculous anyway, in my view, as who knows what will happen. (My own mum went from independent, health and active to totally disabled overnight, and needing round-the-clock expensive care.) And perhaps that original agreement has caused the brother to feel (wrongly) entitled to act in the way he has?

If you are sure you don't want your mother living with you - and personally I think it would be wise given it effect on you and your DC - I think Words e-mail is the correct one.

Then sit our DH down - explain your moving in isn't happening anymore - and look at your housing situation independent to all the mother stuff and plan accordingly.

explain your mother moving in isn't happening anymore

Yes, that email's good. States the position well.

Words' email is great. Explains the facts without exerting any pressure or emotional blackmail, leaves no wriggle room. I suspect the shit will hit the fan in the US, but then your mum will pull herself together and your bro will either continue to strop or will get on with it too. His email to you telling you about his own need to downsize was similarly matter of fact, and expected you to just shunt over and live with it. No harm in doing it back to him.

Your dh is another matter. Why did he get so angry? Was it really that you said out loud the horrible truth - that you can't afford the house and must do something about it?

Plus if she invests with you could she leave part of your house - her share in effect- to your brother in her will? Thereby storing up problems for later with your dbro. I think it's best if neither of you is financially entangled with her; is she English?

Please for your own sanity send Word's type email.

You marriage may or may not survive long term but stands a much better chance without the drain of your Mum living with you.

Words e-mail is great.

Just looked at my suggested email again- maybe you could add .....make the move sooner rather than later ....in order to ensure we have a house that we can afford in the long term- just in case they want to read into that a suggestion you're deliberately downsizing to avoid her coming to live with you.

Only suggestions- but for the love of Pete avoid any emotional stuff about Mom's needs, wants, twilight years etc. She's an adult who needs to take some responsibility here for her own wants and needs. And so do you.

Lion, I haven't read all of this thread, so sorry if I am repeating anything, but just a quick word of warning:

If your mother does end up 'investing' in your property, you really need to make absolutely sure it is in your name and NOT hers. Do not rely on a Will because they can be changed even when your mother is on her deathbed and drugged up to the eyeballs. And for that matter even if she doesn't make a Will, it will be part of her estate and your brother could force you to sell to get his share.

Be very very careful - you are seeing it as your saviour in the short-term so to speak, but it could end up being a total disaster in the long-term. I know this as it happened to a very close friend of mine, whose brother wanted nothing to do with their mother and of course nothing to do with the care of their mother, and then forced her (his sister who did ALL the care work) to sell the house when the mother died, so that he could get his 'rightful' share.

Hmmmmmmmmmm

I actually think your brother isn't out of line. You would be getting a significantly larger share of inheritance plus once she makes the definite move when will he see his mother again? Given her health the only trips possible may be made by him - at his expense. Meanwhile in his eyes you and dh live it up waiting for her die, in your big house with a small mortgage. Yes I can see why he's not happy.

The person I am feeling very dubious about is your husband.
I work for the NHS. Except for the most senior staff everybody is in a pay band. Your job can be restructured and rebanded meaning the work you do is deemed to be worth less but in that case pay protection is usually applied for a fixed period. In said period you have enhanced opportunities to apply for jobs at your old band and your wage remains the same until the protection ends. SO that doesn't really sound like what you describe with one cut and then another plus the amount your describe is large. He must already be on a very high band and plummeting downwards. NHS staff don't have pay cuts like private industry can do, unless they are in the very highly paid category - finance director, chief exec etc in which case 350 grand of mortgage is unlikely to be a hardship. Have you actually seen his payslips? Is he doing the same job? Or is he lying to you and thinking he could get away with it because your mum's cash would make up the shortfall he's spending on something else...

NHS entitlement - lots of misconceptions on this. Entitlement is based on being 'permanently resident'. So it sounds like your mum has defrauded the NHS out of a ton of stuff in her year long 'stay' but if she does come back for good she will then be entitled, as soon as she arrives, to all NHS treatment etc. However hospitals are getting tighter and tighter on this and should be asking for proof of entitlement so she may have to evidence she is living with you permanently.

The DH could be in some sort of consultancy that supplies the NHS?

Thank you one and all for your incredible insight and advice. I wish I could hug each one of you individually. I have read and am reading every line, every word, taking everything in and taking it all on board. I just wanted to pop up and say THANK YOU!! You're all incredibly kind to take such time to offer me insight, especially when I can't see the forest for the trees at times. I will respond further once I've finished reading the rest of these helpful posts. Thank you so much once again!

How was your weekend OP? Is your DH still giving you the silent treatment over all this?

Just wanted to add to the 'don't be a full timer carer' vote. Be the daughter, not the 24/7 365 day a year slave. It will have a devastating effect on you and all those around you, as you will have no time for them. You may have done similar for your Dad, but that was years ago and the rest of your life will have changed since. Please, don't throw yourself under the bus.
Sadly, family are always happy to let you take over so they don't have to step up......

Hi Lions. I agree you should send words email. Don't mean to be harsh but yours was too long and actually dishonest be used:
Fact 1: you DONT actually want to be your mums full time carer. This situation gives you the opportunity to bow out fairly honorably.
Fact 2: having your mother there puts a significant strain on your marriage . I also agree that your DH sounds like a twat- happy to push you into an arrangement that you are clearly unhappy with just to afford the bigger house. Once your toddler is older you may wish to pursue a career of your own, particularly if your marriage isn't solid. Don't get stuck in this quagmire by pretending you still want your mum full time
Fact 3: your mother still has options. Unless she has made some very bad financial decisions she won't be homeless and should be entitled to some care on the NHS. It is not the case of your place or nowhere.
Fact 4: your brother needs to take on some responsibility rather than just being a place for your mum to go on holiday for a few weeks.

All of these facts don't make you a bad person or a bad daughter. Your DH has to get over it - she is your more and YOU should decide when and for how long you want to look after her, not him. He has no right to her money,

I think that popalot put it succinctly. Tell your mother the facts, and give her a couple of weeks to decide. I suspect that your relief when a choice is made will be enormous, even if it's not your #1 preference.

Don't be afraid to let your mother know how stressed-out you feel about the uncertainty. She may be genuinely oblivious.

Thank you all, really thanks so much. Well, I don't have the mental strength to write a long explanation at the moment but the upshot of it all is: Mother, brother, and husband are not speaking to me. So... that's awesome.
Yet a part of me is so relieved to just not have to think about making everyone happy. I feel like I am on an emotional holiday by the seaside. I know I have to deal with the silence at some point, but for now, within the framework of its sadness, there is an odd sense of peace... and I actually like the idea of not speaking to my family again or even my husband. I know this is short-term and not realistic. But it's how I am feeling now. Unstressed. For the first time in two years, I don't give a flying fck where my mom decides to settle down all day in her dressing gown and loaf with her sheepskin slippers and cuppa in hand. She can go sponge off someone else. As for my brother, he and his wife can poor mouth it to me and continue to post photos of themselves on boats, at wineries up and down the California coast, sitting poolside, with strawberries at the bottom of their champagne glasses. Boo hoo, so he may have to sell off one of his two mercs and stop wearing Hugo Boss suits because he's run through his money like a mug. I wash my hands of it. Bitter? Maybe. Justified? Who cares. I'm about to zen the fck out and remove toxic people from my life... I think this may be the path. I might look back at this post in a couple of days and regret my stance. But hey, it is what it is right now.

Lions I think that sounds like a very sane response to some very selfish behaviour. Focus on yourself and your children - your needs are worthy of consideration and sadly it doesn't look like your mum, bro or husband have any grasp of that, so it's up to you to fight for yourself.

You deserve peace and happiness as much as anyone.

I'm so sorry :(

I think like others have said you need to sit down with your brother and discuss the long term plan for your mums continued care. As far as I can see you have 2 options - 1. sell her house and put the money into yours and let her come and live with you where she will be housed, fed, watered and cared for until her death or 2. sell your mums house and put the money into her keep at a nursing home which is likely to be in excess of 4k a month so when she does die most of her house sale equity will have gone. Your brother needs to get real these are the options and he needs to think what is best for your mum and not about the money because if the money does not go to you for the bigger house it will go to a nursing home where I am sure neither of you want your mum to be.
My mum and her sisters had similar arrangement when her mum was getting to the stage that she needed more care. they sold her house and she jointly bought a large house with my mums older sister and her family. My granny had a "granny flat" there and was looked after mainly by my aunt and her teenage kids. She lived for about 12 years there died in her 90's and obviously the legacy of that is my aunt is left with a large house but it gave her other sisters piece of mind know their mum was safe and being cared for in a family home. the key is the decision to do this was made jointly by my mum, her sisters and their mum.

Oh, dear. I read through this, getting ready with an anlysis of the situation (that no-one has enough money for the original "plan" - debt ate some of it, and waste ate more), but now it sounds like there's another potential solution on the horizon: you disconnect from all the squabbling and dishonest adults, and reconnect with the DC.

I don't think you've mentioned a job (and no doubt that would have been difficult while caring for your mother), but how would it be for you to live alone with the kids (having sold the big house) and work part-time (even full-time) to support you? Do you have a career to get back to?

The advantage of a "solution" like this is that you can always start over again (again), if you and your H eventually reconcile (presumably you'd be sharing a room, so there wouldn't even be any need for a futher property sale).

You might even be able to patch things up with your mother and brother eventually (after all, a major source of aggro for your brother seemed to be be idea that you were getting money out of your mother: if you clearly end up with less money, his resentment may ease.... mind you, though, yours may not!)

Good luck. I'm glad to hear you've found a measure of peace for now. If H is not there much during the days, perhaps you could get a valuation done on the house, so you can present practical solutions to him?