Sh*t...my marriage could collapse AND I could fall out with family over this

[LionsNtigersNbearsOHMY]

I've been on here once before ages ago regarding this matter. I can't remember my former ID for this. I've had a name change since.

2 years ago, we bought a 4 bedroom house. We have 3 young kids ranging from teen years to baby. The verbal agreement was that my mother, who lives in the States, would sell up and move in with us giving us a proportion of the proceeds from the sale of her bungalow to help us pay down our mortgage and allow us all to stay in this house where she'd be looked after until her death. The idea is to never have to put her in a home. We made a commitment and over the years, mom's stays with us have gotten longer and longer. This last time, she stayed one year.

It's not easy, but it's not terrible either. We get along very well, husband especially loves mom, possibly more than me because I get the brunt of the carer stuff. Her mobility is reduced and she is 80 and in not such good health, so this is not easy, but she's not completely immobile yet and can still bathe herself and walk up and down the stairs. She's a warm, loving person but never, ever does anything for herself. Her hobby is me. I find this draining at times, but she's always been this way. I knew what I was taking on when we offered her to live with us. We did not make this decision lightly.

The thing is, in order for this to work in the house where we live, we need a proportion of mom's money from her house sale. She agreed to this, giving my brother a smaller proportion so that he has 'something'. This was discussed and agreed between mom and me/hubby two years ago. She has never discussed it much since. She went home to the states to stay with my brother 4 weeks ago and rang me the other day to say she's coming back in July. We're not ready to have her back. But basically, the long and short of it is, my brother and his wife- who have been living a marvellous champagne lifestyle (they are older with grown kids- this is his second wife, married two years)- are broke, skint, and now have to downsize into a flat and send my mother back here to stay with us (we so needed the breather after having her here so long and we anticipated she'd go back to stay with my brother for several months. That's how it's been the past 5 years.

My husband's stance is, no she can't come back until she deals with real life. She can't keep coming back and forth, living out a suitcase while everyone supports her financially. She needs to go home and decide what to do with the house she hasn't slept in for over 5 years. She just goes back and forth between my brother's in the States and my home here in the UK. She has left her house to rot. But in the past year my brother has been frantically doing up her house, without involving me in any aspect. I have no idea what's happened to mom's contents. She won't discuss her house with me at all other than to say, my brother is dealing with everything. He has now written to me to say that he is broke and downsizing. He can't have mom stay with him anymore and he's sending her back to me and renting her house out. He says she can live with us and live off the rent from her home.

Financially, this doesn't work for us because the idea was that we'd be able to pay down our house with mom's help and in return, support and house her until her death. She wouldn't need to pay for anything extra while living with us. She would not live like a tenant, paying a portion of the bills or anything. Life stuff would be on us. My husband has become terribly pushy about mom's situation. Basically, we have to sell if she doesn't come in on this house with us financially. And although she agreed to this verbally, I did warn my husband that while my brother did not agree to this, my mom would wax and wane, which is totally what's happened. Basically, she wants to make me happy and my brother happy. The long and short of it is that she keeps saying, "Yes, I'll invest with you" but has made no motion to do so. She does come and stay but hasn't shown us that she wants to 'live' here, if that makes sense. My brother does not want her to sell and give us any proceeds. He wants her to rent out her property and live with us but feels we should be able to support her without proceeds from her house. We would not have bought this house if we did not think she was going to invest with us. We wanted to buy a smaller house on the same road and that was the house we were going to be gunning for. But when mom said she would live with us and offer a lump sum to help with this, we made sure we secured this house. Everything would be put into place to protect her investment. We would make sure that if anything happened to my husband or to me or if we divorced, mom's investment would be protected.

Me? I don't want any of it anymore. It's all so messy. On the one hand, I feel like we're just sniffing around my mother's money and on the other hand, I see my hubby's point. She did say she'd like to sell her house and give us some not all of her proceeds in order to allow us to keep this house where she too can live. The bottom line is, we bought this house thinking she would go in with us on it because she wanted to. Now she just doesn't want to talk about it. She wants to come and stay but not discuss her future at all. The whole year she was here, we couldn't talk about it. We will have to sell and downsize because we can't reasonably sustain this large property without her help. This leaves her a bit stranded. But at the same time, it will make my brother happy because he did not- and he made this clear- not mom investing with us. He did not explain why or what his issues were, no matter how many email exchanges we've had. He just has made it clear that he doesn't want her investing with us. I don't know what he thinks is best for mom.

Mom is now very cagey about what she wants. I said to my husband that it's like we're communicating in Braille. We're all very civilised and nice to each other. Not one harsh word has been spoken. But behind each other's backs I am certain we all feel frustrated. Mom wants to live with us but I don't think she wants to invest with us. I would LOVE to house my mom for free. I hate needing money from her to make this work, I simply hate thus situation. It's become entirely about money.

My brother has taken over the refurbishment of her house completely and he ignores any emails I write discussing her home or her plans. He'll respond to my jokey emails where we discuss superficial stuff. But with regards to mom's finances or future, the wall goes up. And as I said, mom wants to live with us without discussing anything financial.

I feel like I'm the bad guy here. We have not pushed mom to sell. We have not pushed her to make a decision. But it's sort of crunch time for us. We have to decide how to manage a property we bought thinking she was coming in with us on it. I've told her not to come in July. I've told her we need to decide the way forward with our house. The possibility of selling is very real. As of April 2016, my husband will have a £15,000 income drop as well. So this came as a shock only two weeks ago.

Please tell me if I am unreasonable. I cannot see the forest for the trees and I need some honest advice and opinions, even if I come out looking bad.

My husband is angry. My brother's emails are becoming curt. And I feel like I'm just trying to avoid a huge family bust up. My mom is footloose and fancy free. I don't think she's given anything much thought. And I feel a bit angry with her for this. It's all about "Where will I go now? I want to avoid the California summer. I think I'll come back to England." But she's not understanding that she's dealing with children who have their own worries and need to make long-term plans with or without her on board. Thank you in advance.

Oh op, you are having such a hard time. Just re your last, why was your dh so angry? Is it because you suggested selling the house?

Gosh, you really need someone backing you in your corner, don't you?

I don't think your email will result in any significant change because both your mother and brother will continue to take advance of your generosity as long as you're prepared to extend it. Your fear of appearing grabby enables both of their behaviours.

If your mother is feeling pressured its because she's reneged on a deal and has avoided and has been allowed to avoid, the consequences. She is entitled to change her mind but stringing you along isn't on. I really do think she's taking advantage of you and your fear of appearing grabby, enables it.

Your H's frustration is largely down to his own short sightedness and greed and he has no right to take it out on you, especially since you were doing all the grunt work in his master plan. I'm sure he's feeling the financial pressure but decisions need to be made based on your income and not the hope of a huge cash injection from your mother.

Personally, I would continue under the assumption that your mother has changed her mind and exclude her cash injection from your financial planning. Interest rates are about to rise and your mortgage could soon become untenable.

Other than the retrieval of your personal property I would not mention your mother's house and I would focus solely on the establishment of a care plan which must include how the plan is to be funded. At present your mother's desire not to go into residential care is reliant solely on your support, which makes it a very convenient proposition for both your mother and brother.

As for your marriage, I think that's just another situation where you're getting crapped on and your needs not met.

Personally I quite like the email, though it says a great deal about our mum's needs and perhaps not enough about yours. TBH I wouldn't be at all surprised if you get one back saying that mum has actually bought her ticket and expects to come

The "Skype Tour" sounds pretty good too, but can you really see your brother going along with this? I mean really?? I hope I'm wrong, but I can't help feeling it will take a lot more than that to get to the bottom of this

You are in the process of learning a very tough lesson: that being 'nice' gets you nowhere. I say 'nice' because what I actually mean is an opinionless yes-woman who does nothing to look after herself while being pushed around by everyone else. You have three children depending on you. And instead of sorting your life out so you can be there for them you're waiting for three people who clearly don't care much about what you think to decide your fate. You're just sitting there like a mannequin. Come on OP, start being a person for God's sake. These people are fucking you over. They're supposed to love and care for you but instead they're taking advantage of your complete inability to stand up for yourself in order to suit themselves and rip you off in various different and creative ways.
You don't want to be your mum's carer. So don't be. You have three children ffs! Your husband is a nasty grabby bastard. So sort out your relationship or divorce him. Don't sit around and look back in ten years and blame everyone else for hoe things have gone. This is your life. Sort it out.

I agree with cali.

You have a right to do what you want, your needs are no lesser than DH/DB/DM.

Your mum is an adult, your children need you and it's time to put them first.

Suggest that she lives close to you and downsize house.

I like your email, it is succinct, I don't understand why your husband is so angry. I think you should send it.

What happens if your Mom shows up on your doorstep, you are not going to kick her out on the street, send her off to a hotel or B&B ! so by default she will move back in with you and your family, and the tension between you and your hubby will be even worse, nothing will have been resolved and things will be even uglier.

I am sure your brother is banking on you not making your Mom homeless, so he has nothing to worry about anymore. Mom out of the way, being taken care of by sister across the pond, house and proceeds available to him as per his wishes.

You need to be very clear before your brother puts her on that plane and you have nowhere to turn without kicking you Mom out.

I think your email is too nice with too much wriggle room and too long...especially as the situation has raised through lack of open communication really with assumptions all over.

I can understand why your dh is angry, you (as a family) over extended based on her financial input...there are many a thread were people are warned against this due to the pressure/expectations this leads too..if you as a family can't increase your income enough to pay for your house then you need to sell...irrespective of your mum...its horrible and really feel for both of you..

Re the situation in the states I think your email should be simpler and clearer. set out some options/ideas then arrange to Skype.
Eg.
Mum can't come over and stay with you currently and short term plan has changed for you to downsize.(assuming you can't raise more income)

Therefore she stays in U.S. In her house/different place /share with your brother whatever she prefers. Visits you as a "visit"

She sells up in U.S. And buys sheltered housing here or usa and uses funds left over for that/care...as someone mentions up thread need to check what she's entitled to if been away for such a long time. Anything left gets divided between you n your brother.....this stops all games and everyone is clear

You may have other options, they may have too but give everyone time to look at them before Skype (does your mum email?)

I do think you are going to have to go over at some stage...even if it's just to get your personal stuff out of there and bring it back...

It's really hard with financial stress as some people and maybe your dh is one, I know I am is the hardest to bear -I can cope with all other sorts of things but when it comes to money/roof over my head/dependency on others I really struggle and get horrible....

It's really hard to sort this stuff out when people are so far away but you need to focus on you and your dc ...

Are you sure your brother is in the dire financial straits he says he is or is he exaggerating just to get rid of your mother. I know you want to think the best of him but where an inheritance is concerned things can get ugly.

My grandmother had 3 children when my Dad died one of his brothers tricked my grandmother into signing a power of attorney. We suspect he was going to clean her out (he was a lawyer). Luckily she was on the ball enough to go to her solicitor and get it revoked. He also told her now my Dad was dead his share should go to the rest of them not me and my siblings. He was the nicest uncle you could want for 30 years and got on brilliantly with my Dad- but it turns out when it came to money he was a grasping bastard. My grandmother didn't cut him off she made excuses. It could very well be your brother is up to something. Or maybe he's not but you need a frank discussion with him and your mother individually.

I agree with everything people have said. (Although I don't think H has any right to be angry, as he just seems to be seeing the money, in my view.)

If you can't be up front for yourself, then you need to be for your mum. Your Mom may not realise how you feel if you don't tell her. She needs to make her decisions based on the facts, not on you pretending everything is ok. It's important you are honest for her benefit too. If you find it hard now, when she is relatively ok, just think how difficult you'd find it in a year's time when things have got worse, if she were to live with you. Particularly if you get no other family help.

The worst possible scenario for her is that she gives you the money assuming she's cared for for life (would she be on the deeds?), she then needs to go into a home, your family lie about her having no money as you can't afford to give it up, and she then has to rely on the state to pay. Then she'd potentially get no choice over homes, and could end up somewhere awful far away from you.

Sounds to me like you have no control at all about what is happening in your life.

Everybody else is dictating what you have to do to make sure they selfishly get the best outcome for themselves.

If your mum comes to stay without selling the house - that is the best possible outcome for both her and your brother, but the worst possible outcome for you and your family.
Time to say 'No'. Say it a lot to everybody else involved.
Put your house on the market, tell your mum that the option of her staying with you has now gone because of financial difficulty she has put you in and move on with your own family life.
Break the pattern, take back control and start living again.

"tell your mum that the option of her staying with you has now gone because of financial difficulty she has put you in"
They have put themselves in that financial difficulty.

Perhaps the mum is like the OP and just went along with what the H suggested, then sees the brother, and goes along with what he says. It's difficult to know what the mum was thinking really. She's 80, and maybe she's torn with everything.

OP, you sound lovely though.

Although some have been quite harsh, I do however agree with the sentiment, you're being walked on and your 'niceness' enables their selfishness, just look at the language you use to describe some incredibly entitled behaviour. It appears that your mother and brother do have an agenda and they are being cagey deliberately keeping you in the dark because its dependant on you being the compliant and dutiful daughter/sister and if you knew of their true plans, you might not be.

Any message that you deliver should be in the presence of both of them but given you have children and are under financial pressure, going to the US is unrealistic. Do send an email to your mother and brother about your belongings but don't be surprised that some of the items that you wish to retrieve may be missing or damaged during the renovation because your brother either does not know, or care about the value of these items to you.

I think you are a very generous soul but it does leave you open to manipulation and I think deep down you haven't pushed it with your mother or brother because you share my concern, that they are knowingly taking advantage. OP you must start prioritising your own needs as nobody in you family are, or has given the impression that they will.

If you don't have any RL support please stay with us, some us may be blunt but thats because we are angry that such a kind soul is being treated so very badly.

Hmm, you need to go far more hard-line I feel. You can put the 'hi darling, love you,' stuff at the beginning and the end, but I'd try writing it again with just bullet points and no fluff (or justifications).

(Tobias, I had a 'lovely' uncle do exactly the same after Mum died. Horrendous.)

It looks like they both want you to have your mum but now without the money, right?

I think people may have been unfair to your husband, he did just have your mum to stay for a whole year in his home! He sounds like quite a rigid person, and once the idea of getting a bigger house with your mum living there was mooted, he went for it with you and your mum in agreement too. Now he is faced with a huge drop in salary through no fault of his own and having to move house again. I do agree he was stupid not to have listened to you about how flaky your mum is, but I think it's unclear he's just motivated by greed at all, if he was, he could sell now and divorce you. I suspect his own career and financial stability is collapsing and he's lashing out and you and your mum about it (if his salary hadn't dropped or was dropping by £26000, presumably the payments wouldn't be so tight).

Living with in laws is hard hard work, even you don't really want your mum to live with you, and many partners don't- so the fact he's prepared for your mum to live with all of you must count for something.

He doesn't listen to you for sure and he sounds very cross, but I just wanted to put an alternative side to this- as if he was greedy he may well be taking a different course of action now, he sounds like he might actually be tipping towards a nervous breakdown.

I'm wondering what planet are living on?

The husband has every right to be upset and angry.

He's the main breadwinner and they chose to take on unnecessary debt to give room for his MIL to come and live with them.

Since then they've had MIL come to stay and that put strain on the marriage, his salary has dropped by £10,000 and is set to drop by another £16,000 next year. They are overloaded with debt and running out of time to move before next year and yet this appears to be about the needs of everyone else but them!

Cut the guy some slack!

OP I suggest you and DH sort out your own feelings first, then deal with everyone else's.

Agree with last two posters as well.

Based on my negative experience, your bro is prob emptying the house of valuables now, it will be rented out - he'll control it- your mum will be stuck (but secretly glad bro is not skint) and you'll rush in and save her. With a very resentful dh.
Don't let this happen.

Is it not realistic to use her rental income from her house to contribute towards your mortgage payments?

Joys - do you not think it was very foolish of the DH to push for buying a larger more expensive house when the financial support they needed wasn't yet available? It sounds to me like the DH saw an easy way to get a big house - take on the MIL, let wifey do all the caring and cash in on the inheritance. He does absolutely nothing around the house, the OP said that herself.

I'm not convinced that the email reflects what you want from the situation. As I read it it says everyone should have a chat about things but you will do anything to avoid there being a falling-out. In this case I think there would be a gulf between how you want the email to be read and what your brother (and mother) would understand it as saying.

You wrote If mom wants to live over here, and this is our sincere wish. This will be understood as meaning that you and your DH want your DM to live with you. But that isn't actually what you want.

I don't think the email would achieve much. I don't think you're going to get anywhere until you decide what you actually want and then lobby for that to happen.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, it isn't meant to. You are in an unenviable position and you have my sympathy.

Wow I really feel for you but your email is way too long. I have done a lot of work in written negotiation and the longer the justifications and rambling, the less seriously it is taken.

A simple email is needed to BOTH your mother and your brother together about how you dearly love your mother but due to arrangements not developing as previously agreed you now find yourself in an untenable position with your finances and as a result your family and marriage are suffering. Then layout the 3 simple choices set out early in the thread as briefly they were stated here.

The rest about belongings, flying over there, skype tours etc is just a distraction and entirely superfluous to the decision which needs making now.

You need to concentrate on writing kindly but clearly with absolutely no distractions from the message.

You talk about not wanting any elephants in the room but are not communicating with the only person who can make a decision.

This is very hard but you need to rewrite your role as an adult not a subordinate child.

To be honest when I read the email it occurred to me that you were handling this in the same way as your DM. You have thoughts on what you would like but since this could bring you into conflict with others having their own wants you are trying to avoid that conflict by suggesting things and hoping that someone else will produce the solution you want.

My thoughts are he has already been renting out the property, (I am sure a helpful neighbour can tell you) &/or wants to keep it for himself (paying you for half when the inheritance happens) which is fair enough he lives in the USA you don't.
If you get a decent rent from it, surely it would solve your mortgage repayments monthly. then if your mum dies, the house will be sold & split half & half & you can then pay off in a lump sum. or brother buys you out.
Brother in the interim gets all the hassle of looking after house & tenants.
However for now, you have to tell them clearly that without either rent or sale of property you will have to downsize & looking after Mum is not happening.
Tell them/him, that after a year of having your Mum living with you, you are a wreck, the kids are suffering along with your marriage due to financial difficulty (Brother should understand this if he has had to do the same)

It may be best to keep the house, & sell when/if you can no longer be carer.
Is she entitled to NHS ?

I agree email is too long - just say that your financial situation has changed and the choices for Mum are:
a) original plan - need money by such and such a date
b) you downsize, Mum then needs to decide another plan

However, although you say in your original post that it was lovely having your Mum for a year, you have since admitted that it wasn't so great. Mum getting a place near you with her own money would be better all round.

So, email is - as Mum has not gone with original agreement you realise that she has changed her mind, which is fine, you just want her to be happy. You will be downsizing, would love it if she chooses to buy somewhere nearby, but completely understand if she chooses to live elsewhere. As you are selling the house you won't be able to have her to stay.

Joys - do you not think it was very foolish of the DH to push for buying a larger more expensive house when the financial support they needed wasn't yet available?

Or he believed her family when they said the mother would be moving in and trusted that would happen and now feels very let down and angry.

We can't know his motive, I'd like to think the OP hasn't married someone money grabbing.

I can understand why he is angry, they don't seem to be talking and he's the one carrying the financial burden which it is now.

I liked the poster on the first page that listed the practical options re the mother situation.

However these should be discussed between the OP and her DH first. She's opening dialogue with the family and considering their options and feelings but it's not clear she'd done this with her DH.

If that's the case I can completely sympathise with him. He must be under a great deal of strain and feel sidelined.