Sh*t...my marriage could collapse AND I could fall out with family over this

[LionsNtigersNbearsOHMY]

I've been on here once before ages ago regarding this matter. I can't remember my former ID for this. I've had a name change since.

2 years ago, we bought a 4 bedroom house. We have 3 young kids ranging from teen years to baby. The verbal agreement was that my mother, who lives in the States, would sell up and move in with us giving us a proportion of the proceeds from the sale of her bungalow to help us pay down our mortgage and allow us all to stay in this house where she'd be looked after until her death. The idea is to never have to put her in a home. We made a commitment and over the years, mom's stays with us have gotten longer and longer. This last time, she stayed one year.

It's not easy, but it's not terrible either. We get along very well, husband especially loves mom, possibly more than me because I get the brunt of the carer stuff. Her mobility is reduced and she is 80 and in not such good health, so this is not easy, but she's not completely immobile yet and can still bathe herself and walk up and down the stairs. She's a warm, loving person but never, ever does anything for herself. Her hobby is me. I find this draining at times, but she's always been this way. I knew what I was taking on when we offered her to live with us. We did not make this decision lightly.

The thing is, in order for this to work in the house where we live, we need a proportion of mom's money from her house sale. She agreed to this, giving my brother a smaller proportion so that he has 'something'. This was discussed and agreed between mom and me/hubby two years ago. She has never discussed it much since. She went home to the states to stay with my brother 4 weeks ago and rang me the other day to say she's coming back in July. We're not ready to have her back. But basically, the long and short of it is, my brother and his wife- who have been living a marvellous champagne lifestyle (they are older with grown kids- this is his second wife, married two years)- are broke, skint, and now have to downsize into a flat and send my mother back here to stay with us (we so needed the breather after having her here so long and we anticipated she'd go back to stay with my brother for several months. That's how it's been the past 5 years.

My husband's stance is, no she can't come back until she deals with real life. She can't keep coming back and forth, living out a suitcase while everyone supports her financially. She needs to go home and decide what to do with the house she hasn't slept in for over 5 years. She just goes back and forth between my brother's in the States and my home here in the UK. She has left her house to rot. But in the past year my brother has been frantically doing up her house, without involving me in any aspect. I have no idea what's happened to mom's contents. She won't discuss her house with me at all other than to say, my brother is dealing with everything. He has now written to me to say that he is broke and downsizing. He can't have mom stay with him anymore and he's sending her back to me and renting her house out. He says she can live with us and live off the rent from her home.

Financially, this doesn't work for us because the idea was that we'd be able to pay down our house with mom's help and in return, support and house her until her death. She wouldn't need to pay for anything extra while living with us. She would not live like a tenant, paying a portion of the bills or anything. Life stuff would be on us. My husband has become terribly pushy about mom's situation. Basically, we have to sell if she doesn't come in on this house with us financially. And although she agreed to this verbally, I did warn my husband that while my brother did not agree to this, my mom would wax and wane, which is totally what's happened. Basically, she wants to make me happy and my brother happy. The long and short of it is that she keeps saying, "Yes, I'll invest with you" but has made no motion to do so. She does come and stay but hasn't shown us that she wants to 'live' here, if that makes sense. My brother does not want her to sell and give us any proceeds. He wants her to rent out her property and live with us but feels we should be able to support her without proceeds from her house. We would not have bought this house if we did not think she was going to invest with us. We wanted to buy a smaller house on the same road and that was the house we were going to be gunning for. But when mom said she would live with us and offer a lump sum to help with this, we made sure we secured this house. Everything would be put into place to protect her investment. We would make sure that if anything happened to my husband or to me or if we divorced, mom's investment would be protected.

Me? I don't want any of it anymore. It's all so messy. On the one hand, I feel like we're just sniffing around my mother's money and on the other hand, I see my hubby's point. She did say she'd like to sell her house and give us some not all of her proceeds in order to allow us to keep this house where she too can live. The bottom line is, we bought this house thinking she would go in with us on it because she wanted to. Now she just doesn't want to talk about it. She wants to come and stay but not discuss her future at all. The whole year she was here, we couldn't talk about it. We will have to sell and downsize because we can't reasonably sustain this large property without her help. This leaves her a bit stranded. But at the same time, it will make my brother happy because he did not- and he made this clear- not mom investing with us. He did not explain why or what his issues were, no matter how many email exchanges we've had. He just has made it clear that he doesn't want her investing with us. I don't know what he thinks is best for mom.

Mom is now very cagey about what she wants. I said to my husband that it's like we're communicating in Braille. We're all very civilised and nice to each other. Not one harsh word has been spoken. But behind each other's backs I am certain we all feel frustrated. Mom wants to live with us but I don't think she wants to invest with us. I would LOVE to house my mom for free. I hate needing money from her to make this work, I simply hate thus situation. It's become entirely about money.

My brother has taken over the refurbishment of her house completely and he ignores any emails I write discussing her home or her plans. He'll respond to my jokey emails where we discuss superficial stuff. But with regards to mom's finances or future, the wall goes up. And as I said, mom wants to live with us without discussing anything financial.

I feel like I'm the bad guy here. We have not pushed mom to sell. We have not pushed her to make a decision. But it's sort of crunch time for us. We have to decide how to manage a property we bought thinking she was coming in with us on it. I've told her not to come in July. I've told her we need to decide the way forward with our house. The possibility of selling is very real. As of April 2016, my husband will have a £15,000 income drop as well. So this came as a shock only two weeks ago.

Please tell me if I am unreasonable. I cannot see the forest for the trees and I need some honest advice and opinions, even if I come out looking bad.

My husband is angry. My brother's emails are becoming curt. And I feel like I'm just trying to avoid a huge family bust up. My mom is footloose and fancy free. I don't think she's given anything much thought. And I feel a bit angry with her for this. It's all about "Where will I go now? I want to avoid the California summer. I think I'll come back to England." But she's not understanding that she's dealing with children who have their own worries and need to make long-term plans with or without her on board. Thank you in advance.

OP, I think it's time for you to sit down with your mother and explain that you need to make a decision about your future, and that you can't do so until the money is sorted out. It's not just about the house - you can't possibly plan for your future if you don't know whether you'll be a full-time carer in a couple of years or not.

I think it's also important to be very clear that you are actually good with either decision: you can sell up and move to a smaller place, or you can keep on your current house. (Your DH is going to have to back off emotionaly here). I am deadly serious about this: you have to be OK with either outcome and not push for one or another. But you need a resolution.

I shrewdly suspect that she is not going to give you this money - it sounds as though your brother is objecting and not seeing the cost of the care that you provide as a factor. The easiest thing will be to divide her estate exactly in half with your brother, and for the caring to be done by professionals in a home. I also suspect that she will be shocked at this, because you are 'expected' to do this as the woman. Which is deeply unfair and sexist.

Im not sure I understand why you still need your DM investment ?
You presumably got a mortgage based on your incomes ?

Can you afford to pay the mortgage at the moment? If so, then you can afford the house at least for another year. So I'd hang into it for now.
Is your mum feeling a bit bullied? She's not allowed to come back to yours unless she sells her house. She might feel that you just want the money and not her. Also if you need a break from her now, you'll still feel like you need a break from her when she's a fully paid up member of your household. That might be difficult, especially as she's likely to get more needy, not less, over the next few years. Is she American? Can she access social care in the uk if she gets Ill or dementia etc?
This sounds very stressful for you.

Your brother is either going to live in the house himself or he's planning to sell it and not give you any of the proceeds.

You need to act fast to take control of the situation. Go to the U.S. to sort this out.

littlejessie of course it was discussed with brother, in person here in the UK and over the phone. But he was incredibly evasive and non-committal. It was all about waiting and seeing what mom would ultimately want. My brother came over and saw the property for himself. I had major reservations about inviting my mom to live with us for obvious reasons. It is something my husband wanted more than me because for him, it's a money thing. For me, it's an emotional thing. And I can just see me finishing up losing everyone, including hubby over this... not losing him completely but it will and already has put a significant strain on our marriage. He is irate at the thought of selling up and moving. But I know my mom and I did warn him that I wasn't sure. But mom seemed so eager, as if this was the perfect solution for her in her twilight years. I get my brother. I do. He's broke and has to look after number one.

Nothing to do with the relationship issues, and an "off-the-wall" aside, but could you rent out "her" room so you don't need to move?

I think you are not being unreasonable at all. Maybe a solution would be to rent your mums house out but say to her that you can't afford to 'accommodate' her unless she pays you some rent, which would of course, contribute to your mortgage. If she doesn't want to pay you any 'rent' then you can't afford to stay there and she will have to make alternative arrangements. She surely doesn't expect to live the rest of her life rent free....I know, from experience, how complicated things can be. I wish you luck!

You all need to be in the same room at the same time.

Brief emails and curt transatlantic phone calls are not gPoping to resolve this. I suspect that there is resentment (misplaced) from your brother who is going to claim (rightly or wrongly) that he has not invested $XXXX in renovations, and your mother is going to continue to appease the last person she stayed with.

Popalots questions to everyone, at the same time.

Good luck,

Strange misplaced Pop there, and random comma at end to be ignored!

Why is your husband going to have a drop in wages next year? Is he retiring?

charley50 you hit the nail on the head...
my angst, my anxiety and rows with my husband revolve around the reality that she is only welcome if she buys in. And that's never the message I wanted to give her. But that is undeniably the message now. This is where hubby and I knock heads. But on the other hand, coming over for a year at a time to stay is hard. At least living here would be a more 'settled' experience... I think.

charley50 no... he works for the NHS. Salary drops across the board are the norm. We just have to make adjustments. It went down 10k last year. Cuts. It's just about the cuts they're making and the services they are no longer providing.

I must have misunderstood this part of your op:

"The thing is, in order for this to work in the house where we live, we need a proportion of mom's money from her house sale. She agreed to this, giving my brother a smaller proportion so that he has 'something'. This was discussed and agreed between mom and me/hubby two years ago."

Which made it sound as though it was a proposal put by you and your husband to your mum, leaving your brother out of the discussion? Apologies if I have got that wrong.

I think your husband needs to back off. You sound like you have developed this strategy out of total love for your mother - he sounds like he's on the make. He has to realise that no-one is entitled to a greater share of an inheritance, that buying a house on an informal financial arrangement to be concluded at some unspecified time in future was always going to be a risk, and that he bears some responsibility for that decision.

Your brother sounds equally grasping. Poor you, the only caring one, stuck between people who only think about themselves.

Definitely get this resolved straight away - at least you then know where you stand. Oh, and don't underrate your own potential: you could easily make £100k in a few years if you went out to work instead of being a full-time carer over that time.

Yes it does seem like your husband looks at your mum and see dollar signs. With her input the mortgage will be almost paid off, he can kick back and relax, and you become a full time carer! You say he gets on great with her, but does he do helpful things for her? The whole situation sounds very awkward,

mom's actually British. She was a teacher here before she emigrated to the states. So she's entitled to nhs care. she's very lucky in this regard.

I agree with posters who've said your brother is doing her house up for himself. Really tough I know, but I would put your house on the market, and explain to her that without her investment you cannot afford to house her, so she needs to stay in the states. Could you fly out & see what's going on for yourself?

Sorry I didn't see the bit about his job. It's kind of human nature I suppose and I can see how he thinks it's a great idea, but it's your mums perogative to change her mind if circumstances (e.g. Your bro's) and feelings change.
Yes can you rent a room out if she decides to stay in the States?

Madison - The OP can't put her mums house on the market! It was an informal agreement they made.

Ok, now i have the guts to say it... I love my brother. I love my hubby. Of course I do. But I feel stuck between two very me-orientated men right now. My marriage is not brilliant. I am definitely run off my feet and exhausted. He's just never home and the idea is he supports us all financially and that's enough. It's a rather lonely marriage, but hey, it is what it is and I said my vows. That's a whole other thread probably. Part of mom's being here is that she is a companion for me and a role model for the kids. She's a great lady in many, many ways.
Sometimes I think my husband and I could divorce over this. I am probably being overly dramatic. But it's occurred to me.

The husband is beside the point here, the brother sees the mother as a cash cow and unless the trusting OP gets on it, she could well end up losing the inheritance & her mum will be forced to reply on state care, or the OP will end up caring for her in a smaller home.

I've seen this happen in two families and in my own a few generations back. One sibling makes a grab for all the cash and gets it. Beware.

She needs a meeting in the U.S. with mother, brother and lawyer.

Sorry Madison, I misread your post..

Xpost -

It sounds like you need another thread for your husband. Neither he nor your brother sound nice at all. Vows don't mean you have to put up and shut up with a crap deal.

I really feel for you OP...not an easy situation for you at all. From the information available here, I think you should probably prepare to downsize, and your husband should accept that with good grace. Your mum should probably sell her house and either leave a will so things aren't being picked over like this while she's still around to watch, or split her estate down the middle for you and your brother so it's fair. I feel really sorry for her too. Your husband and brother need their heads knocking together.

Sorry. Yes indeed, hubby is another thread. That was an outburst, inappropriately placed here. Please skim over that. :-)