just had a chat with dh about his emotional affair

[FlappertyFlippers]

Dh and I have been together 10 years and have 2 dc (aged 5 and 1). Things are good between us, at times they are great.

However there has always been one niggle in our relationship -his very close friendship with his ex (they'd split about 2 years before we got together and remained friends). She suffers from depression, has had a string of crappy relationships, is financially unstable and she depends on my dh her only friend emotionally, for practical stuff (he still sorts out her car insurance), etc.they don't see each other often but chat on the phone every day, at least once a day and he always leaves the room for these chats, he guards his phone and never lets me near it, and he basically shuts me out of this part of his life. I fucking hate it.

In the past he has gone behind my back in order to help her out and make her happy, without any consideration for me and my feelings. The worst case was when dd was just born and he decided to start up a business with her without even consulting me or discussing it. This means I have severe issues with trust around their relationship as I know he is willing to prioritise her wants over my opinion. To me it felt like a complete betrayal of trust, but he cannot see this and views it as just him supporting her and helping her to get on with her life. This is just one example, not an isolated incident.

Lately the amount of phone calls, his secrecy, etc has ramped up and I decided to gently confront him as quite frankly I can't take anymore. I explained how I felt excluded, how actually she knows more about what's going on in his life than I do and how uncomfortable it makes me feel.

He got defensive, says it's all in my head, he's just helping her through a tough time, is pissed off I basically don't trust him and says I'm blowing it all out of proportion.

He asked what he was supposed to do, stop being her friend all together? I said no, I would not ask that of him, the only relationship I can control/end is the one between him and me and I know that if I did try and end their friendship he'd just resort to hiding it instead. I told him it was up to him to find a solution as his behaviour around things to do with her is the cause of my issues. I feel like he is having an emotional affair, and I'm just a convenience in his life who does his cooking, his laundry, childcare,, etc.

Then ds woke up and I'm now hiding in his room rocking him back to sleep.

Is there a solution to our situation? Honestly I am so lost. But their friendship is making me feel like crap about myself and I am unwilling to depend the next however many years continuing to feel like crap about myself.

Cross posts. Please look at that thread^^ before you talk to him.

summerbreezer I really think that counselling might help for us to communicate, and I'd like to give it a try at least before we put ourselves and the dc through the trauma of a separation. I was hoping an independent person could help me show him how HIS behaviour is wrong, the situation is untenable and how he needs to WANT to change it. I feel that I am not always able to clearly articulate what the issue is, to call him out on his passive aggressiveness and hopefully we can work on it with the help of someone impartial.

If I force the issue of a separation I assume he will give up his ex, but it is always going to be because I backed him into a corner over it and he will resent me for ending their friendship. This resentment will fester and not be healthy for us as a couple, he needs to understand WHY his current behaviour is so destroying to us, he needs to be made to SEE it for himself. I am so hopeful that this can be resolved as apart from this we are a happy couple.

I suspect you are being clearer than you think - it is hurtful to think that he hears your pain and ignores you. It is more palatable to assume that he just does not understand yet.

Good luck, OP.

Summer - maybe you are right. Maybe counselling will help me to realise that. Maybe. Maybe not.

But at the moment I feel that as I am obviously not clearly getting through to him then maybe being forced to sit in a room and lay it all out for a stranger may help him see it. Maybe not though, but I believe it's worth a shot.

At least it will mean he understands that I am now in a place where I'm willing to seriously confront the issue, and I'm going to keep going until there is a resolution - even if the eventual resolution is one where I end up with a shattered heart. I will know I tried my best to get through to him. Tis all I can do.

rootypig it's interesting what you say about timings, I agree. However my interpretation isn't that of using her as his emotional pressure valve, I believe he does it to reassure her that whatever happens in his life he will always be there for her. This is wrong, he should bloody well focus on 100% being there for me, but he is unable to see this clearly whenever I speak to him.

What you said The problem is, a partner who is not fully engaged, who isn't there, for whatever reason, is maddening. He's denying himself your relationship, which means he's denying you from having it too. As you already know, he will drive you mad. Passive aggressive behaviour does this. You wonder if you're losing your mind. really resonates. This is how I feel at the moment. I'm losing myself.

oh dear

you are on a hiding to nothing if you pin your hopes on a counsellor making him "see sense"

he already "sees sense" he just doesn't want to stop having a relationship with this woman. You will have been perfectly clear about this, he chooses not to listen

you take a massive risk that you will get one of the wet lettucey counsellors who will agree with him when he inevitably says it is healthy for couples to have friends of the opposite sex

which of course it is

but this is waaaaay beyond that... by worrying that he will resent you for backing him into a corner you are simply perpetuating the doormat behaviour you have had a complete failure with so far

I am so hopeful that this can be resolved as apart from this we are a happy couple.

But you are not a couple, you are an awkward threesome.

Ask him to leave and have counselling if he wants to continue in the marriage as someone who is fully committed to you.

He needs a jolt. He hears you. He just doesn't think he's doing anything wrong. If he needs an independent person to tell him he's wrong rather than listen to your thoughts and feelings, then he has zero respect for you.

((((Flapperty)))) I know how it feels.

When you think about their relationship, you seem to think about what she gets out of it. What do you think he gets out of it? (genuine question). There must be something.

About losing yourself (from experience). Find things that aren't to do with him, that will allow you to hold onto yourself and your sanity. It might be friends, family, work - fun and fulfilment in any form. (Sorry if I sound like an advice column in a naff mag.)

The thing about that is, making sure you're alright without him, will ultimately undermine your marriage, because marriages aren't predicated on this sort of intentional, defensive self sufficiency. You would be turning away from him. But this is the position he puts you in. What choice do you have - continue like this, until there is nothing left of you, or build a different life for yourself, either within the marriage or without. He won't look after you - in fact, the opposite, he's denying your needs and your distress (this is the bit that will finish you off). You say you're becoming distrustful. Think: how long since you trusted him, really trusted him, with your emotional wellbeing?

Sorry if this all sounds a bit grim. Here's another, more promising thought. Passive aggressiveness is often a bit of a mystery to the person who behaves this way - they're passive aggressive because they don't have better emotional strategies. Pointing this behaviour out to him might, if he's reasonably open minded, result in the penny dropping a bit. You talk about counselling - I'd suggest you go separately, before you go together. Because you need to reestablish boundaries in the safety and privacy of your own space, before you try to reconstruct your relationship with him. Does that make sense?

Op you're being very kind about him; the way you describe his behaviour almost sounds like he's doing something out of the kindness of his heart.

my interpretation isn't that he uses her.. more that he wants to reassure her that whatever happens in his life he will always be there for her

But he is fulfilling a selfish desire by keeping up this ridiculous level of intimacy with her. I'm afraid I'd be asking why the hell he hasn't, of his own accord, told her that he has a wife and family who come first. He must enjoy the attention or the escapism of being so involved with her.

The way he is behaving is abhorrent, you and your dc deserve someone who wants to be there 100%.

Flapperty, your happiness and your life is very important. You've had this for ten years. Now it's time for you to not feel second best. You put yourself first if he won't.

Wouldn't you rather be with someone who already knows how to behave with regards to friendships? You know, a grown up? He's not a poor Ickes man who needs help realising.

Only on page two, but I would say to him: It's not about not trusting you. It's not about making you choose between me and her. It's about you prioritising another person's needs above mine and thinking that's fine. You have already chosen to do that, and that's absolutely your right to do so. But I will not be second priority in my own marriage, and it is my right to call it a day.

Presumably, if you believe he would choose you over her anyway (but be resentful about it), then he will feel the immense loss of you when you dump him for his behaviour. Perhaps he will then make a choice about whether he is going to stop this behaviour in order to try and get you to agree to stay with him. Or whether he in fact prefers his hobby to treat his ex-wife like a needy child, upsetting his wife into the bargain.

Ok, have caught up. As you have said, you have allowed this by tolerating it all this time, to your detriment. Just don't tolerate it anymore. I would attack this one, hard.

Op, how old are her dc? Is the father around?

Maybe there's a lot more to this situation, he has invested so much in this woman, why?

Sorry to sound negative, just my gut instinct from your op.

I appreciate why you want to have counselling, but all the counsellor is likely to do is to give each of you time to state your case to the other. It's unlikely that they would play 'referee' and take your side.

I agree with others that you need to be firm here. The way he is behaving is unreasonable to you and your children. Tell him this and let him make his choice. If he chooses to break contact with her, then it is his decision and it would be unfair of him to resent you. He should have made you his priority 10 years ago.

It is perhaps also worth saying that he is not doing her any favours either. She needs to learn to stand on her own two feet. Time to let go and move on.

Agree with AF regarding the councillor. I don't think he is going to have the epiphany you want him to have. He will already know he is taking the piss but you allow him to do so - so he will.

If he chooses you and you can feel the resentment - let him go. Why be second best when there are plenty of people that would choose you as first choice. Don't cling on to the dregs of what this man can offer in the hope that you will be the 'winner'.

Don't be a push over op - get angry and annoyed that he is treating you and his kids like this.

This sounds horrendous, I genuinely don't know how you have tolerated it for so long. I am not really sure why you are "gently confronting him", I would have been a screaming banshee long before now.

It is not normal, nor acceptable, for your DH to carry on like this with his ex. As for her I suspect she enjoys the power she holds over him.

I also think that if you got hold of his phone & were able to read the messages your marriage would be over. Sorry, you deserve better than this.

Hope your tal tonight was successful

*talk

Of course he knows it's wrong, he just doesn't want it to change. If he admitted it was wrong he would have to change his behaviour.

He's still in love with her, she broke up with him - he still wanted to be with her then and it sounds like he does now.

He must value her over you or he simply couldn't hurt you like this, and would want to spend his time with you not her.

how are things, op ?

I actually think counselling would be worth a try in this situation, even though there are no guarantees it will get you the result you want it might help you to communicate with each other more calmly and less defensively. If he refuses to engage, or just keeps on banging his drum without listening or acknowledging how you feel then I think walking away is the only option for your sanity sadly.

To answer you question about finding someone, you can use relate but there are also many excellent counsellors in private practice who won't have a waiting list. You want someone ideally who is BACP (or UKCP) accredited which means they have been qualified at least 2 years and have done a 'proper' training course and have at least 450 hours post qualification.

He's sorting out another woman's car insurance? While you look after the kids?

Seriously? Ultimatum time, he's putting her before you AND your two children.

You were 'desperately hurt' when they set up a business together?

It sounds like it might be out of character for you, but you need to get desperately angry with him, and soon.