just had a chat with dh about his emotional affair

[FlappertyFlippers]

Dh and I have been together 10 years and have 2 dc (aged 5 and 1). Things are good between us, at times they are great.

However there has always been one niggle in our relationship -his very close friendship with his ex (they'd split about 2 years before we got together and remained friends). She suffers from depression, has had a string of crappy relationships, is financially unstable and she depends on my dh her only friend emotionally, for practical stuff (he still sorts out her car insurance), etc.they don't see each other often but chat on the phone every day, at least once a day and he always leaves the room for these chats, he guards his phone and never lets me near it, and he basically shuts me out of this part of his life. I fucking hate it.

In the past he has gone behind my back in order to help her out and make her happy, without any consideration for me and my feelings. The worst case was when dd was just born and he decided to start up a business with her without even consulting me or discussing it. This means I have severe issues with trust around their relationship as I know he is willing to prioritise her wants over my opinion. To me it felt like a complete betrayal of trust, but he cannot see this and views it as just him supporting her and helping her to get on with her life. This is just one example, not an isolated incident.

Lately the amount of phone calls, his secrecy, etc has ramped up and I decided to gently confront him as quite frankly I can't take anymore. I explained how I felt excluded, how actually she knows more about what's going on in his life than I do and how uncomfortable it makes me feel.

He got defensive, says it's all in my head, he's just helping her through a tough time, is pissed off I basically don't trust him and says I'm blowing it all out of proportion.

He asked what he was supposed to do, stop being her friend all together? I said no, I would not ask that of him, the only relationship I can control/end is the one between him and me and I know that if I did try and end their friendship he'd just resort to hiding it instead. I told him it was up to him to find a solution as his behaviour around things to do with her is the cause of my issues. I feel like he is having an emotional affair, and I'm just a convenience in his life who does his cooking, his laundry, childcare,, etc.

Then ds woke up and I'm now hiding in his room rocking him back to sleep.

Is there a solution to our situation? Honestly I am so lost. But their friendship is making me feel like crap about myself and I am unwilling to depend the next however many years continuing to feel like crap about myself.

So what are you going to do?

You won't make him choose as you think he will choose you and resent you for it. Where does that leave you? Same as you are now.

It's shut up or do something about it. He won't change. He has no reasons too. He has you to do all the washing, cooking, cleaning, child care, shagging needs and her to make him feel important and like a knight in shining armour .

Wow, I am not a jealous person either, but this is unacceptable for several reasons- ten years, speaking everyday, secrecy, setting up a business together? And you not knowing her even though she's in your husband's life all the time for ten years?

Basically he has a life with you and a life with her and he has no intentions of letting either go.

I wonder why this is an issue now, given you had two children with him knowing he was very close to his ex.

I suspect he won't want to let go, because I can only think and I'm sorry if I am wrong, but I wonder if he is still in love with her as she left him, not the other way around. I don't know if he is so much a rescuer here or just having his cake and eating it.

I did know a very similar situation, in the end the girlfriend gave an ultimatum, me or the old girlfriend, and he chose her. It's not been the happiest of marriages though.

I am not a jealous person and my husband has many female friends, including a couple of old girlfriends, but the difference is his life doesn't orient around them, he calls them occasionally, meets up for the odd dinner once a year if they are around. Even his better female friends, I have never felt they come first, not me, ever, otherwise I don't think I would feel so relaxed. This situation is beyond what I could imagine if I'm honest.

Good God

in an effort to be "cool" about this you have morphed into a doormat

while you try to be "sensitive" and not "put any pressure on him" he will carry o taking the piss

the lies you already acknowledge he has told would have ended it for me

you are no 2 in his life

you deserve to be no 1

if he won't do that, I consider you to have two choices

1. carry on as you are getting more and more resentful and angry until he can justify sleeping with her because you have turned into such a shrew

2. tell him this stops as of today...if it doesn't consider he has chosen her over you and start divorce proceedings citing her as co respondent

there are no other choices

also, I don't wish to upset you further but if he hasn't slept with her during the course of your relationship, I will show my arse on the town hall steps

I'm not entirely convinced that he would choose you OP. There is no way he is going to give her up. He will put up a massive fight and he will blame you for making him miserable.

I think I would make the decision to move on with my life without him. I would tell him that I didn't like living like this, with secretive behaviour and a stranger taking so much of my husband's time. I would tell him that I wanted more than that so I would be looking now to work towards an amicable separation.

If, if he was shocked to the core, immediately offered to cut all contact with her, reassured me that this relationship was the most important to him, apologised for neglecting me and the children and for wasting our family money, then I might tell him that I would re-consider if his actions backed up his words.

Any less than that is just not worth it. You will just string this pain out over several more years before you decide to call it a day anyway. This is no way to live, OP, and you know it. That's why you posted after all.

Pluck up the courage to go it alone, get all your finances planned out, get legal advice and then tell him. Quick and complete, like pulling off a plaster. It will hurt less in the long run x

AnyFucker I also wondered that just because I don't think the rescuer complex would necessarily go on for so long or be so persistent without an underlying basis of love and/or sex. Setting up a business together isn't just about helping her economically, it's a way to spend time together. Why would he be chatting in secret everyday, or hiding his phone the rest of the time, if the chats were just about him sorting out car insurance, or sympathizing about her latest problems with SS? Not for ten years anyway.

Op, is there any way you can get a look at these messages?

I have a horrible feeling that once you put your foot down, the depth of his feelings for her, and perhaps the truth of the situation, is going to come out. Have you got some support? Could you talk with a friend, or family member?

I don't think the advice to be 'more needy' is good at all, you are essentially then entering into a competition for your own husband. He should be yours already for goodness sake!

While I agree with everything posted, something jumped out at me.
op, you would have told him everything wrong with his business plan?
Perhaps that's why he didn't share with you?

Maybe it's just your wording. It sounds very dismissive. Are you and the ex polar opposites?

Fuck giving him the choice.

You make the choice whether you want to be the spare part in your own marriage.

You might have a great marriage in other ways, but how long before that venom spreads and poisons all of it?

I agree with AF too I'm afraid. There's got to be something holding their 'friendship' together. If bet my bottom dollar he's shagged her and is worried if he stops being her 'friend' she'll tell you.

I don't know how on earth you've put up with this for so long. IMO there aren't many circumstances where being friends with an ex works.

She is a fluffy, dependent, sweet little thing who could not possibly cope with life without the big, strong daddy who makes everything right for her. As far as she is concerned everything is tickety boo. He asks nothing of her except the adoration which feeds his ego.

You, on the other hand are the strong, capable wife and mother of his children. The one who deals with all the shit that life throws at any family and copes with the stresses and strains of daily life...without drama or complaint or attacks of "poor likkle meeee" toddlerism.

I think she fills a need in him. He wants to be a rescuer and to have that warm, smug feeling that comes with having someone so dependent on his manly strength.

They have a match made in Barbara Cartland heaven. In real life she would be a complete drag...and boring to boot.

He is in need of a cold hard shock. The risk for you in administering that shock is that he will find the romantic hero role too difficult to give up and will only come to his somewhat feeble senses when it is too late.

You are between a rock and a hard place. I don't think he will accept responsibility for your unhappiness or for the fact that he is putting his relationship with you and his future family life in great danger.

He is a bit of a twat really.

Oh I went through this with my ex and his ex from 20 years ago. He got very secretive about it, crossed the line. 8 months later he dumped me for her because I was getting more and more suspicious.

I tried to be the cool partner. Now I wish I told him straight and made him fuck off.

Next time he childishly asks you if he should just stop the friendship with her altogether, say yes.

He may as well tell you to 'fuck off' verbally every single day as that's exactly what he's doing ,figuratively speaking ,every time he leaves the room to have a little chat on the phone with her

In the very early stages of seeing someone years ago I quickly realised that the constant phone calls he got were from an ex. Didn't bother me as such, figured they were friends until the time she called in the dead of night to ask him to take her to the hospital......but get this - her then boyfriend was asleep beside her! Rather than wake the man she was going out with, she called this guy and off he dutifully trot! He couldn't see anything odd in this. Saw it as his job to be there for her, didn't understand why I said forget it. Didn't know what I meant by too much baggage. Turned out he was the same with all his exes. Constantly there to swoop in and fix things for them much to the annoyance of their current partners who also found it weird and intrusive.

I think you need to decide what you're prepared to put up with OP. His attitude let alone his behaviour would have crossed the line for me - & crossed it so far that I think he'd only be a dot on the horizon by now.

He sounds like an idiot, an unthinking idiot who is able to conveniently dismiss that he is turning his back on his family on a daily basis to be there for this woman. Sorry you're having to endure this behaviour.

"He asked what he was supposed to do, stop being her friend all together?"
So painting you into a corner, refusing to take responsibility for his behaviour? Which TBH is what screams at me from your description from the rest of what he does. No, instead he wants you to say the words so that he can resent you (while changing nothing just doing it behind your back). Or for you to say nothing and to continue building resentment.

Sorry, but I just wouldn't give him the choice any more. This is your life, and you don't want to live it this way any longer so you are making the changes that will make you happier. You "fucking hate" living with someone who treats you so disrespectfully, "and the insecurities are starting to leach into every day life" probably because "Lately the amount of phone calls, his secrecy, etc has ramped up". I would NOT be giving this man a 'her or me' ultimatum. The time for that is way way past. I would be talking to him about the practicalities of dividing up joint assets and what arrangements need to be made about the children. In a fantasy world this would be a wake-up call, but sadly I do not think this will happen here . His behaviour is far too entrenched.

I'm so sorry Flapperty, but with ten years track record, I really don't see this unhealthy situation resolving. I think the best you can do is remove yourself and your children from this very damaging domestic environment.

Asking you so he can blame you when he isn't allowed to play out with her anymore.

He asked what he was supposed to do, stop being her friend all together?

The answer to this is, of course, 'Yes'. Quite simply, this friendship has become inappropriate and therefore has to stop.

I would have absolutely no qualms about saying that to him, then sit back and see what he does. He has choices, of course he does, and so do you OP.

You don't have to be a passive bit player in this drama that is his life. Just tell him what you need and if he doesn't want to or can't provide that then you will move.

Someone once posted this phrase on mn and I think it's a good one:

'If you can't stand up and be the man I need you to be, then sit the fuck down so that I can see the man standing behind you.'

It's time to stop making this all about him and put yourself first for once.

You've put up with a lot more than I would've done OP.

He's being disrespectful.

You are his wife his priorities should be with you and your kids! Not keeping his ex happy.

Sorry if I've missed this but do they have kids? If not, I personally don't think they have any need to be friends. But that might just be me....

Are you sure she's as bad as she makes out? If he's her only friend, then she's going to know how to get him running whenever she clicks her fingers.

As annoying as she is, she can't be blamed for your husbands behaviour. He chooses to spend so much time helping her. Just because he isn't having sex with her, doesn't mean he isn't doing anything wrong.

I think you need to have a proper chat with him. It sounds like he treats her more like a wife then you.

Absolutely agree with those saying it's you who needs to choose.

Use the mumsnet "This isn't working for me".

He'll say "Ok I won't see her so often"

You say "That doesn't work for me".

He's basically married to both of you.

You are in what is pretty much a bigamous relationship.

He obviously really enjoys her dependence on him.

He's a selfish wanker, and it doesn't sound like you have ever been his first choice.

As ever, I'm struck by the timings of people's behaviour, which is never a coincidence. Setting up a business with her, two weeks after the birth of your child?

He's using her as an emotional pressure valve - somewhere else to go, so he doesn't feel overwhelmed by his commitment to you. (Perhaps more accurately, he's evading commitment, which is by its nature, total.) So he will go to her precisely when things are the most emotionally intense between the two of you. The problem is, a partner who is not fully engaged, who isn't there, for whatever reason, is maddening. He's denying himself your relationship, which means he's denying you from having it too. As you already know, he will drive you mad. Passive aggressive behaviour does this. You wonder if you're losing your mind.

What is he afraid of? ask him. He is married to you, you have children. He is a father for the rest of his life, that's a done deal. He can either throw his lot in with you and really experience his family, for all its highs and lows, or he can throw it away - reject it, I should say.

Ask him these things, point out what he is doing and what his choices are. Then walk away from it, mentally, let it go. See what he is willing to give you and decide if that is enough.

anyfucker you are so right. It was me trying to be 'cool' about it initially and then time dragged on, I kept thinking hoping that as our relationship evolved, that theirs would scale back. However this was not the case, and I didn't do anything to stop it. I am not blameless, I sat back and watched myself being sidelined on numerous occasions and fucking ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN.

I will have another sit down with him tonight, once the dc are in bed. I am going to insist on going to counselling. He is convinced that as they are 'just friends' that there is nothing wrong with him helping her, supporting her, etc. He does not see.the issue. I on the other hand cannot continue to live like this, enjoying life until sorting out her life again takes priority over our family. I have had enough.

Can anyone suggest how to find a good relationship councillor? Do I just ring up relate or are there others out there? I am clueless.

I don't know if this will resonate OP, but have a gander - it's a thread about being in a relationship with a passive aggressive man. I think you might find some helpful ideas.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2275725-Anyone-else-end-up-as-an-angry-banshee-after-living-with-Mr-Nice-passive-irresponsible

OP, all counselling will do is give him further opportunities to justify to you why you are being unreasonable. He is not going to take you seriously. As scary as it is, you need to be firmer. Ask him to leave for a little while. Not forever - just long enough for you both to decide what you want.

I don't think you will gain anything from counselling OP. I think you are just hoping that he will listen to someone else.

But what's the point in that. He needs to listen to you and take you seriously. Tell him that you've thought about what he said and, yes, you do want him to stop being her friend altogether.

And don't take no for an answer. Tell him your expectations and see if he can respect them. If he won't then you have your answer.