DH "not on board" with 4th pregnancy, please share advice with me

[MrsMcJnr]

I need some advice on how to handle a difficult situation please. I am pregnant with a fourth, unplanned baby. My DH and I have been together for 15 years, married for 9 and have 3 beautiful children aged 7, 5 and 3. I do not work outside of the house at the moment and so DH is the sole bread winner. I have made no secret of the fact that I always wanted four children but as DH did not want another after our 3rd, I embraced what I had happily and thought my baby days were over. Clearly fate had other ideas. I have issues with hormonal contraception so we use barrier methods but they must have failed. We have also had several miscarriages and so 6 weeks (which is where I am now) is a very scary and emotional time for me.
I want to keep this baby. I have no ability to consider not having it. DH has typed a document entitled “Considerations about another child” and it contains 5 pages of arguments as to why we should not have a 4th child. It has been going between us for days with arguments back and forth in writing (which is better than verbally as it would turn into a stand off) and it breaks my heart when I read it. I feel like screaming that a point that might be relevant in a discussion whether or not to try for a 4th child is not when the child is already on board. He is basically saying he thinks it makes sense to abort and that that is justified based on his points (which generally relate to money and the lack of). I have told him that for me that is not an option.
We haven´t spoken about it for a few days. I know he is still in shock. As am I. I know it won´t be easy but I do believe I have my eyes open. Some days he makes encouraging comments like, maybe I should book in for the snip when you are 20 weeks so that that is not something else to consider when we have a new baby and that we´ll need a bigger sofa but other days he says things like, don´t take my silence as being on board, I have thought of more arguments for my list.
What I really want is for him to get on board. I don´t know how to reach that position or if it is possible. I do know that to make any other decision on the fate of this baby would leave me resentful forever and we would probably end up breaking up over it. I don´t know if he can get on board and embrace this without resenting me. If it were just me to consider I probably would be strong enough to say the choice is between staying and supporting me or going and not between terminating or keeping but we do essentially have a very happy family life, we love each other and most importantly we love the three kids we have and I do not want to break up their home because I have selfishly protected a fourth child. Does that make any sense?
DH and I are both volatile people. I tend to get what I want in life but then I have always worked very hard to make sure I have got it. That doesn´t apply to this other than from the perspective that he sees me as nearly always getting my way and he sees this an example of me winning and him losing. I cannot let the life of a child be seen in those terms and therefore I am avoiding confrontation and focusing on being healthy and looking after myself and the baby and hoping that one day soon he will magically be excited as I am.
Please give me any advice you have, especially if you have been in this position, what changed his mind? Is there a way to make it clear that I want the baby without it seeming like I am disregarding his feelings? Help!

You cannot let him make you have a termination. The baby is there, it has happened, he needs to suck it up and deal with it.

Your body, your choice.

If he really couldn't cope with the idea of a fourth baby why didn't he book himself in for the snip before? I think in the case of abortion it is such a deeply personal and emotional choice that nobody should ever put pressure on a woman to do anything they don't want to do. Your DH is no exception.

Also, you both made a baby. Whether he decides to stand by you and the baby is not your responsibility.

You cannot make a person get in board anymore than he can make you get on board with his wanting you to terminate.

He should have had the snip after the third, but chose not to.

Give it time, I guess.

My GP has said the same. Not his choice, your body, you decide. There are no doubts in my mind about keeping the baby but I am very worried about the implications of that on my family, on my other children. I need him to stop thinking in the theoretical and start thinking in the reality. DH has no idea what the physical and emotional impacts for a termination are. He sees it as making a problem go away. Sadly I know about those things having made that choice myself many, many years ago. I will never make it again.

Sorry I'm with your DH. Although he can't make you have an abortion he has been clear that he doesn't want dc4. And you are disregarding his feelings because you want dc4.

I'm sorry but anybody who presents their pregnant partner with a 5 page document detailing why they should abort their baby needs to go and have a word with themselves.

Or really really doesn't want another dc.

I respected his feelings when we decided not to have a fourth but it has happened through no intention of my own. I didn´t set out to get pregnant in spite of his feelings . I feel he cannot put his own feelings above the baby´s life and above my feelings about it all now that the situation is different.

He needs to understand that a termination is NOT something that someone can or should be persuaded into on the basis of his list of considerations. It is deeply personal and highly emotional, and any risk of resenting him because he 'made' you would spell disaster for your long term future. This is not like other disagreements where you can weigh up pros and cons - it concerns your body, and your emotional and mental health. Terminating a pregnancy is not something one of you wins or loses at having your own way about.

He needs to understand that, and you need to try and explain as plainly and clearly as possible that this is not something he can reason you into. It's not like choosing what car to buy. You (you, whose body this is) have to be have to be emotionally willing and if you're not, you CANNOT (not 'will not', not 'don't want to' - CANNOT) do that. That's what he needs to understand, not that there are reasons why it might not have been a good idea to get pregnant. As you've said, you're passed that and it's a whole different situation. If you have strong feelings against terminating your pregnancy, there is no debate to be had. Between you, you have to come up with a way of dealing with it - and that's what the two of you need to focus on.

HTH. He needs to learn to see the conversation in those terms, not as a for-against competition.

The idiot man should have got the snip after the third baby.

I can understand though why he is upset, he is the one who has to worry about supporting you all.

I read that more women who get abortion are women who already have children...if this fourth baby broke up your marriage, how would you feel? your be a single mother to four children. Would you be able to handle that?

You can't make him get on board with the pregnancy, he made his feelings clear prior to this & again now-the written document speaks volumes.
You say you can't abort & would resent him to the point of splitting if you did which is fine, you must keep in mind though that this works both ways & you may end up on your own with 4 DC.

Then all you can do is reiterate as many times as you must that you will NOT terminate. You cannot force him to be enthusiastic about the pregnancy or 'on board' the way you like.

am so sorry you are in this difficult position.

give your dh more time. explain that you cant consider aborting the baby and that his arguments just make you anxious and worried. 4 babies is wonderful, not too much more expensive than 3, even with new car and sofa taken into account.

he will come around. if he is a good father to your other three so he will be to this baby. just give it time.

What kind of man presents his wife with a long document outlining reasons she should have an abortion? I am stunned. That is deeply disturbing behaviour.

You are pregnant. You dont want to have an abortion. Its a done deal.

Dont engage with anymore 'documents', FGS! Tell him its happening and he needs to 'get on board' sooner rather than later.

If he really didn't want any possibility of another, he should have had a vasectomy.

You should not even consider terminating if that is not what you want, you need to make it absolutely clear that ending the pregnancy is not going to happen, it's not on the cards and it's not up for discussion

But you can't make him be on board or happy or supportive. He has choices to make too, they are just different to yours.

There's a time and a place for abortion, but this is not it: you cannot abort a baby you don't want to abort.

DH seems to have no awareness that there are moral, mental and emotional consequences to an abortion. You're the one who is morally responsible for the decision and you will have to live with it for the rest of your life. He seems to think it's like flicking a switch.

You need to think through how you would deal with 4 children as a single parent if it came to it.

Sorry, OP, but I went right off you when you said you always get your own way.

I do feel sorry for your husband. I would hate to have to support six people, including a woman who always gets her own way!

I'm older than you and remember the days when women wished they could have terminations by just taking a pill as soon as they found out they were pregnant. I don't think we would have seen that as having a termination in the usual sense. This option was available to you - surely you could have done this?

Here are his main points, I want you to see them not because I want to vilify him but because I want you to see what how he is thinking.

It starts off “I DO REALLY LOVE YOU and I´M SORRY we can´t just say, great let´s go for it, but this is going to be the hardest decision we´ve ever had to make.....

• We have (touch wood) 3 fit, healthy, happy and clever children, are we pushing our luck to hope to have a fourth? Our age is against us on this and no matter what tests we do we can´t be certain everything will be ok – We are both 41.
• (we live in a 3 bed, 2 bath rented apartment in Spain – we have 2DS´s and a DD) with 4 kids we´d really need a min of 4 bedrooms and we certainly can´t afford that just now. You know as well as I do that we are scrapping by each month.
• How many child free nights would we have in the next 3 / 7 / 10 / 15 years if we have four kids? This may seem selfish, but I want you back, with DS starting school later this year I´ll get more of you back.
• We have not had a holiday for the last 3 years and there is no sign of one anytime soon. How much harder will it be to go on holiday with 4 rather than 3 kids?
• How much fun could the 5 of us have with the money saved from a fourth child on nice things that we wouldn’t be able to do if we had 4 kids?
• Totally understandably, you haven’t worked for the last 3 years because of DS, if we have a fourth child in December you wouldn’t realistically be able to start working until 2019. I have no problem with you staying at home, I know how much you do, but if you start working this year we could almost double our income.
• We were not trying for another baby and therefore it´s completely different from when we got pregnant with the other three. We do not have to keep it, no one would think badly of us for not keeping it. I understand this is your body and you are a mother and this decision would be harder for you to make than me, but if it´s the right decision to make, taking everything into account, then we should make it. Thousands of people go through this process and choose not to have the baby.
• How many other people do you know who have more than 3 kids and manage well?

He then talks about Fluffy excitement and grim reality:

• I was genuinely excited when you told me this news last night. Part of me does think it would be wonderful to have another squashie!!

• I put your friend´s baby into and out of the car last week and it was fun holding him, albeit only for a few seconds. But when it´s your own baby is 24/7/365 it´s bloody hard work. Do you think we can cope?

Don't abort a baby you want to keep.

And shred the 'document' so your baby will never, ever get to see how much his/her father didn't want him/her.

Yeah the only reason a man who really really didn't want another baby wouldn't have the snip is if he sees babies and contraception as the woman's problem and not something he has responsibility for. He has control over his fertility and in the past you had compromised into having 3 - enough for him and too few for you. It is not true therefore that you are disregarding his feelings. He disregarded his responsibility with regards to contraception and he will have to take responsibility for the outcome whether you are together or not. Sending documents listing pros and cons and pressuring/threatening you into an abortion you are very clear you don't want is abysmal behaviour.

I am very worried about the implications of that on my family, on my other children.

Yes, but it will be him destroying the family not you. If he bails out when one thing doesn't go to plan then he is not the sort of reliable man and father that you and your children need.

All of his points are valid and I can completely see where he is coming from (and I say that as a mother of 6)

He especially had a point about you working, would you be willing to consider not being a sahm with the new baby?

However he has to accept that this baby is real and is going to be born but you have to accept that you can't make him be happy about it

Ultimately, it's your body and therefore your decision. There is no compromise here, one of you has to back down and run the risk of being resentful and it destroying your marriage, or stand your ground and run the risk of the other being resentful and it destroying your marriage.

You are both entitled to your opinions but there really should have been a proper discussion before the pregnancy and you're both responsible that it wasn't.

Be straight with him, you won't consider a termination but you will try to address his concerns about money. You said you always wanted four, did you ever think about how you would pay for a fourt?