Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DH "not on board" with 4th pregnancy, please share advice with me

195 replies

MrsMcJnr · 17/04/2015 12:13

I need some advice on how to handle a difficult situation please. I am pregnant with a fourth, unplanned baby. My DH and I have been together for 15 years, married for 9 and have 3 beautiful children aged 7, 5 and 3. I do not work outside of the house at the moment and so DH is the sole bread winner. I have made no secret of the fact that I always wanted four children but as DH did not want another after our 3rd, I embraced what I had happily and thought my baby days were over. Clearly fate had other ideas. I have issues with hormonal contraception so we use barrier methods but they must have failed. We have also had several miscarriages and so 6 weeks (which is where I am now) is a very scary and emotional time for me.
I want to keep this baby. I have no ability to consider not having it. DH has typed a document entitled “Considerations about another child” and it contains 5 pages of arguments as to why we should not have a 4th child. It has been going between us for days with arguments back and forth in writing (which is better than verbally as it would turn into a stand off) and it breaks my heart when I read it. I feel like screaming that a point that might be relevant in a discussion whether or not to try for a 4th child is not when the child is already on board. He is basically saying he thinks it makes sense to abort and that that is justified based on his points (which generally relate to money and the lack of). I have told him that for me that is not an option.
We haven´t spoken about it for a few days. I know he is still in shock. As am I. I know it won´t be easy but I do believe I have my eyes open. Some days he makes encouraging comments like, maybe I should book in for the snip when you are 20 weeks so that that is not something else to consider when we have a new baby and that we´ll need a bigger sofa but other days he says things like, don´t take my silence as being on board, I have thought of more arguments for my list.
What I really want is for him to get on board. I don´t know how to reach that position or if it is possible. I do know that to make any other decision on the fate of this baby would leave me resentful forever and we would probably end up breaking up over it. I don´t know if he can get on board and embrace this without resenting me. If it were just me to consider I probably would be strong enough to say the choice is between staying and supporting me or going and not between terminating or keeping but we do essentially have a very happy family life, we love each other and most importantly we love the three kids we have and I do not want to break up their home because I have selfishly protected a fourth child. Does that make any sense?
DH and I are both volatile people. I tend to get what I want in life but then I have always worked very hard to make sure I have got it. That doesn´t apply to this other than from the perspective that he sees me as nearly always getting my way and he sees this an example of me winning and him losing. I cannot let the life of a child be seen in those terms and therefore I am avoiding confrontation and focusing on being healthy and looking after myself and the baby and hoping that one day soon he will magically be excited as I am.
Please give me any advice you have, especially if you have been in this position, what changed his mind? Is there a way to make it clear that I want the baby without it seeming like I am disregarding his feelings? Help!

OP posts:
LoisPuddingLane · 17/04/2015 17:07

There is no difference between men and women

Actually there is a slight difference. A man can get someone pregnant every single time he has vaginal intercourse. For women, it's only a certain few days in each cycle. And yet, somehow the responsibility for pregnancy always falls on the woman. He's a bit late with his regrets.

DoorToTheRiver · 17/04/2015 17:25

Please don't feel forced into an abortion that you clearly don't want to have to try and keep your family together. I think that if you did guilt and resentment could end up causing you to split up anyway.

Not easily shocked here, but I was at the document he has typed up for why you should not have this baby. Bit late for that really.

I haven't read all of the thread but if it hasn't already been mentioned perhaps he will feel more on board as your pregnancy progresses. When he's seen the scan, can feel the baby moving and it starts to feel like your baby rather than just a collection of cells. Hopefully his emotions will kick in then.

He has had a shock and he needs time to get used to it. All he is doing at the moment is focusing on the negatives and worrying about how you will all manage financially.

I hope it all works out for you.

Justusemyname · 17/04/2015 17:34

Dinky!Hmm

Seems to me you were using condoms and one failed. His fault Then?

It would have been a disaster if I had got pregnant again. So DH had the snip. Smaller op than for me, I'd more than done my bit and had my fair share of operations. Not sure if it being more his choice to not have more than mine was a factor.

If you terminate could you feel the same about him after his bullying?

If you don't and he leaves could you manage?

No brainier for me plus you've said you will not have a termination so he has to decide if he will accept the situation or not.

Good luck.

Northernlurker · 17/04/2015 17:35

The OP is very clear that she does not want a termination. She knows what that involves and she does not want to do that. That's fair enough, her body her choice. Obviously she also has to accept the consequences of that decision and she clearly does do so from everything she's written here. She knows this will be tough but termination is not an option for her and she also knows this will be kind of wonderful too. I suppose what she's really asking is how to support her dh so he's at that place too.
All I can say is repeat what was said right at the start of the thread. Give it time.
I don't agree with the poster who said the 'document' is cold. The OP has shared it with us and it's clearly authored by a loving, practical, concerned man. The points he raises are valid and the OP knows she needs to think about them.

DinosaursRoar · 17/04/2015 17:43

OP - ignoring the "fault" argument that's brewing, read BlueDressingGown's post at 16:02:03 - that's pretty much the issue isn't it?

You don't want it to be purely your choice, and if you've planned your other 3 DCs, I can see why you'd want this one to be equally wanted - but that's not the case.

if abortion isn't an option, then it's not an option, that's fine, but it's not fine to pretend it might be still on the table in the hope your DH will also reject it as an option, if it's never going to be something you'd consider.

For all those on here saying your DH has to take responsibility for his choice to have PIV sex, then yes he does, but you also have to take responsibility for your choice to rule out abortion.

Tell him it's not an option. He has the option to stay in the marriage or not, if not, he can be an involved or not father. But he can't stop this baby from happening.

Talk to your DH frankly, you won't 'win him over' to thinking it's great news right now, he might, however, come to accept it. You can't have everything. You can't make him want this baby.

wideboy26 · 17/04/2015 18:07

We went through this with DC4. It was all a long time ago and I remember wondering how on earth we would cope. I don't recall discussing termination, although we must have done as one of the options we considered. I'm sure that DW would never have agreed to it, but it needed to be considered. I love small, helpless babies and I must have soon come round to the idea once the initial shock had worn off. DW didn't find the pregnancy as easy as the previous 3 and took longer to bounce back (as she did with the other 3) after the birth. It was hard work raising 4 and we missed many holidays until our financial situation improved, but by then the children were getting to the stage of not wanting to holiday with mum and dad. Now, 27 years later, we have 4 wonderful sons who all get on very well together and we are so proud of them. I truly don't know how we did it, but I suppose we just dug deep and did what we had to do. We only ever planned to have 3 children, but sometimes I think things happen for a reason. Whatever, we have been truly blessed and I hope the OP's husband can come to see the situation in that way.

nobodyknowswheremyjonnyhasgone · 17/04/2015 18:08

In our case, similar but different in that the unprotected sex was known by both of us at the time but we disregarded,once only, without thinking too much due to previous fertility issues.

Dh wanted to end the pregnancy as he was delighted that the baby/toddler years were coming to an end for us, financially we were through the worst with my maternity leaves over. Now the littlest is 3, we are totally past it but the hard things were that he just wasn't excited about the pregnancy. He tried but it was definitely not the same as the first two. I very much felt he was enduring the whole pregnancy and he was ambivalent about the baby's arrival. This was hard for me to take. The sleepness nights made him angry and resentful more than before and it didn't feel like we were in it together at all. In turn I was resentful of this resentfulness (although i understood it).

The atmosphere was dreadful and although he absolutely loved dc and didn't treat them any differently, it was not a joyful time. I would hate to live through it again. The other DC picked up' on the stress in the house. It wasn't overt as there was no blaming but he couldn't find any joy in being back in the midst of babydom and I found that hard to take.The result was alot of arguing about every small misdemeanor by either of us.

In summary, I think you have to accept how he feels and forget the idea of getting him 'on board'. You aren't going to have a termination and so he is the 'loser'. So while he can't bully you into a termination and it doesn't sound like he's the type to leave his children, don't plan on it all being happy families instead for a while.

PoppyField · 17/04/2015 18:32

Hi OP,

Um, congratulations! Sorry you're feeling so wobbly. Not surprised.

I heartily disagree with Dinosaurs when they say: 'For all those on here saying your DH has to take responsibility for his choice to have PIV sex, then yes he does, but you also have to take responsibility for your choice to rule out abortion.' Er no, that's not fair! You both have to take responsibility for having PIV sex - that's where it stops. You both have responsibility for the pregnancy and therefore the baby - OP should not have to justify NOT having an abortion!

She has played it straight all the way along - she did not trap him into this, she has always been honest in saying she would like a fourth, she does not now have to justify herself now that there has been a contraception failure. Her DH has taken that extra step of arguing for an abortion, which would involve extra trauma for her. This is not an equal situation at this point - no one, least of all a loving husband, should pressure another person into going through that. I think it is understandable to think less of him for this.

I am similar to others in that I am not easily shocked, but I am really shocked that your DH is trying to pressure you. The existence of that 5 page document is just awful. You must just have wanted to cry that he felt it was acceptable, even though he tried somehow to soften it up at the end. What you have here is a done deal. A contraception failure. He already knows you well enough to know that you would never abort a pregnancy. He must know this.

Like others have said, this letter might have been appropriate before you got pregant - but highly inappropriate now that you actually are pregnant! All his arguments are academic now. He has to take joint responsibility for this preganancy. Yes, you can't force him to be on board, but if you were feeling less vulnerable, I think you would be very, very angry.

He does need to go and have a word with himself. He is not being fair to you. Presenting you with his reasons - when he knows what you think - and after you have both actually made a baby is just not on.

Stay healthy. Don't try to persuade him. But equally I would make it clear what you think of his 'Considerations about another child'. Don't even engage with the arguments - it's not whether his bullet points are right or wrong - it's the fact that he felt able to write it and send it to you after the event! That, to me, is the (almost?) unforgiveable thing.

upaladderagain · 17/04/2015 18:33

Your husband sounds like a sweet, kind-hearted responsible man, and from the last part of his letter, it seems that he is already at least part way to accepting that when the baby comes he'll be fine with it.

Can I suggest that as a conciliatory gesture, as soon as you recover from the birth you go and get yourself sterilised? I did it when my DS was a year old, and the relief of never having to worry about contraception again was immense.
There will be those who say that the man should take some responsibility and get the snip, but the side effects can be unpleasant in a few unfortunate cases. A friend insisted her husband should, after a decade of marriage and 2 kids, get it done, as she'd taken the responsibility (ie pill) all that time. He didn't, she got pregnant by accident and had a miscarriage.
My feeling is that as it's the woman who has to carry the can when she falls pregnant, principles or not it makes sense to be absolutely sure it can't happen if you don't want it to.

Offred · 17/04/2015 19:09

Up - there are other methods that are more effective than sterilisation for women. Surely the sterilisation would only be the choice if you were sure you didn't want more, didn't want hormones or a coil and were happy running the risk of a general anaesthetic. No-one who has been sterilised should be doing it because it gives them absolute certainty because it doesn't!

DinosaursRoar · 17/04/2015 20:10

PoppyFields - no, if the OP has mentally ruled out having an abortion, she's wrong not to say so in clear terms in the hope he'll come round to the idea of being positive about a 4th DC some other way, without it having to be her choice to keep it.

It's not a joint choice to continue with the pregnancy, it's hers, it's only her decision to make, but spelling out that the decision is made is the first step to working out what happens next.

The alternative is to let her DH think that it might be a possiblity, leading to him trying to argue his case for an abortion, rather than work out how he comes to term with the fact he will be a father of 4, regardless of what he feels about it now. That's not really fair on either of them to not spell out the true options.

upaladderagain · 17/04/2015 20:29

Of course female sterilsation gives absolute certainty! Wherever did you get the idea it didn't? Had mine 25 years ago, and am still "at it" with no problems at all. If you get tubes cut and clips (known in the trade as belt and braces) it is totally failsafe. Just a light general anaesthetic, as it's keyhole, takes half an hour, in and out of hospital in half a day, no side effects, no worries.

maroonedwithfour · 17/04/2015 20:34

Lots of posts about you coping with 4 dcs alone. Would your narriage survive termination?

Offred · 17/04/2015 20:46

No it doesn't up. No method of contraception does. Just because you haven't got pregnant after yours doesn't mean someone else won't in fact 2 - 10 in 1000 women do each year. It is less effective than some other methods of hormonal contraception. Vasectomy is more effective and less risky.

Offred · 17/04/2015 20:47

Surely your doctor should have explained this to you before you had yours done? And the signs you may be having an ectopic pregnancy which can actually kill you!

Offred · 17/04/2015 20:52

Not each year, in a lifetime...

Offred · 17/04/2015 20:54

Either way vasectomy many times more effective. I'd never have an abortion for someone else again not would I get sterilised. Would only do either of those things if I'd decided it was what I wanted and I think it's bad to advise others to make those big decisions for the benefit of their partner.

blueberrypie0112 · 17/04/2015 20:59

In a way, her husband knew she wanted more children. I don't think she was ready to close that door. But if he was ready to close that door to more children, then he should have gotten snipped.

blueberrypie0112 · 17/04/2015 21:04

In fact, my husband want more kids, I did not. He did not want a snip because he feel maybe down the road , we would consider it (or who knows which I hope not, get in a new relationship) I made sure we don't have more kids.

trickydickie · 18/04/2015 01:43

MrsMc = I have not read all the posts. Just wanted to say that our 4th child is now 4. I did read the post where you have given the reasons your husband gives for not wanting this 4th child.

He is so right. We have had rubbish holidays in comparison to what we could have had if we only had 2 or 3 children. My children even miss out on things like ice creams in the park (not always but sometimes) because x everthing by 4 is very expensive. We rarely eat out, I know my children hear their peers talking about being out at cafe's, restaurants etc. with their parents.

Time - I wish I had so much more time to give to each of my children. They need it and I don't have it. I feel so guilty about this at times. Sometimes we joke about which child we would give back!

I do at times feel I am drowning in it all. A couple of months back 2 of my children had serious health issue's. I am now looking into some form of counselling to help me cope with these health issues.

I miscarried my fourth pregnancy. Found out I was pregnant and Dh asked me to have an abortion. Our youngest was 9 months and she had been such a hard baby. Never slept for more than 3 hours at a time. Cried so much more than the previous 2. Basically she just hated being a baby! Dh said he knew he couldn't do it again. He couldn't go through the sleepless nights etc again. I was absolutely devastated that he felt this way. I didn't sleep for 2 nights thinking I had to abort for him and my other 3 kids but knowing about the guilt I would feel. A couple of days later he told me he understood I couldn't abort and it was my body so he wouldn't ask me again. Anyhow, I miscarried a week later. It was all just awful. We had a few discussions after the miscarriage. Not heated or anything just kind of frank conversations. He said he would have been happy if I had wanted to abort our 3rd pregnancy. He was talking about our 10 month old baby up the stairs sleeping. I found that so hard to hear. I was so upset, for our daughter, for us, for my family. He said he didn't ask me then because he knew I woudln't. He did get the snip when our 3rd child arrived (she was about 3 days old!). I fell pregnant for the 4 time 9 months after the snip. That was the pregnancy that I miscarried.

He said he phoned the vasectomy clininc after my miscarriage and spoke to the doctor who had preformed his vasectomy who told him it was a miracle I had been pregnant. The doctor apparently told him I could't have been pregnant by him! Told him to send in another sample,which he did and phoned him back with results confirming above again!

Needless to say 8 months or so after the miscarriage I was pregnant again. Dh didn't mention abortion this time. Obviously I knew he would have been delighted if I had got an abortion.

We do struggle with money and time. We don't have any family support and it is incredibly hard at times. We are managing to muddle through, our 4th child has ended up having health issues so it has been really, really hard at times. Our children are 12, 9, 7 and 5.

We do manage 4 or 5 nights out a year as a couple without the children which is lovely. We really treasure those nights Wink

It was so hard when dd3 was a baby and then when ds1 was a baby (baby number 4). We were lucky that ds1 was a very, very easy baby. He is Mr Laid Back. He just slotted right in.

i think this helped Dh. Not that he hasn't or didn't love the first 3 children, he did and was and is a fantastic Dad to them. Having the fourth child come along as such an easy baby. one who would sleep sometimes, one who was happy watching the world go bye. Really helped us bond with him. Or maybe it was just benign neglect that made us feel he was an easy baby Smile.

Don't know what I am trying to say, just that it may not be as bad as your husband fears.

mslizzy · 18/04/2015 12:01

mrsjnrmac I have kind of similar experience. I wanted 4 and DH was certain 3 was all that we could handle. He changed his mind after I just gave him space and time and our DC3 (who he adores) was past the baby stage. When I was pregnant though he became very anxious about it and I was worried that he would resent me.

Again I just gave him time. Our other 3 DC are easy lovely kids. They were ecstatic to find out about DC4. He is now very excited about the new baby (due v soon). He is a great father, I know he will adore this baby as he does the others.

Also I am one of five children. All those points about holidays and time one on one with parents is probably true. But in my experience it is well and truly outweighed by the benefits of having a little sibling gang! We are all still very close. We never had any money but I clearly remember feeling, as a little kid, like I was the bees knees because I had my sisters and brothers. I felt really sorry for kids with just one sibling! Even if they went to disneyland! I couldn't imagine anything worse!

Good luck. You and your DH both sound very lovely and respectful of each other. It sounds like you will pull through this and find yourselves with a lovely little family.

Flowers
expatinscotland · 18/04/2015 17:50

'Can I suggest that as a conciliatory gesture, as soon as you recover from the birth you go and get yourself sterilised? I did it when my DS was a year old, and the relief of never having to worry about contraception again was immense.'

No one should volunteer themselves for a surgical procedure they don't want just to conciliate another person.

Ratfinkandbobo · 18/04/2015 19:27

Your relationship sounds very odd to meConfused. Sending documents? Are you not able to verbally communicate?
no one can force you to have an abortion, he'lol have to get on with it leave.

upaladderagain · 18/04/2015 20:29

Fair comment expat - obviously I did not express myself at all well.

I think what I was trying to get at (and failing) is that in order not to be in this sad predicament again sterilisation is a very effective option. It seemed to me that OP was being rather hard on her husband: he doesn't want no.4 but clearly loves his wife and children very much.

The fact that he didn't go through with the vasectomy indicates that he has reservations about it, and not those related to the possibility of having another child. I couldn't condemn any man for feeling very uneasy about having the procedure, as recent research suggests that it can cause long term side effects. And not many men really relish having their bits cut about, although to their credit many of them do for their partner's sake.
Hope that not too much waffle.

expatinscotland · 18/04/2015 20:41

She may have equal reservations about female sterilisation, hence, why she did not take that option after their third. Why should she now? It can have serious side effects including ectopic pregnancy, which can kill a person.

'And not many men really relish having their bits cut about, although to their credit many of them do for their partner's sake.'

No, many men do it because they don't want to father any more children, see this is a way to avoid that and aren't stupidly immature about their 'bits'.