DH "not on board" with 4th pregnancy, please share advice with me

[MrsMcJnr]

I need some advice on how to handle a difficult situation please. I am pregnant with a fourth, unplanned baby. My DH and I have been together for 15 years, married for 9 and have 3 beautiful children aged 7, 5 and 3. I do not work outside of the house at the moment and so DH is the sole bread winner. I have made no secret of the fact that I always wanted four children but as DH did not want another after our 3rd, I embraced what I had happily and thought my baby days were over. Clearly fate had other ideas. I have issues with hormonal contraception so we use barrier methods but they must have failed. We have also had several miscarriages and so 6 weeks (which is where I am now) is a very scary and emotional time for me.
I want to keep this baby. I have no ability to consider not having it. DH has typed a document entitled “Considerations about another child” and it contains 5 pages of arguments as to why we should not have a 4th child. It has been going between us for days with arguments back and forth in writing (which is better than verbally as it would turn into a stand off) and it breaks my heart when I read it. I feel like screaming that a point that might be relevant in a discussion whether or not to try for a 4th child is not when the child is already on board. He is basically saying he thinks it makes sense to abort and that that is justified based on his points (which generally relate to money and the lack of). I have told him that for me that is not an option.
We haven´t spoken about it for a few days. I know he is still in shock. As am I. I know it won´t be easy but I do believe I have my eyes open. Some days he makes encouraging comments like, maybe I should book in for the snip when you are 20 weeks so that that is not something else to consider when we have a new baby and that we´ll need a bigger sofa but other days he says things like, don´t take my silence as being on board, I have thought of more arguments for my list.
What I really want is for him to get on board. I don´t know how to reach that position or if it is possible. I do know that to make any other decision on the fate of this baby would leave me resentful forever and we would probably end up breaking up over it. I don´t know if he can get on board and embrace this without resenting me. If it were just me to consider I probably would be strong enough to say the choice is between staying and supporting me or going and not between terminating or keeping but we do essentially have a very happy family life, we love each other and most importantly we love the three kids we have and I do not want to break up their home because I have selfishly protected a fourth child. Does that make any sense?
DH and I are both volatile people. I tend to get what I want in life but then I have always worked very hard to make sure I have got it. That doesn´t apply to this other than from the perspective that he sees me as nearly always getting my way and he sees this an example of me winning and him losing. I cannot let the life of a child be seen in those terms and therefore I am avoiding confrontation and focusing on being healthy and looking after myself and the baby and hoping that one day soon he will magically be excited as I am.
Please give me any advice you have, especially if you have been in this position, what changed his mind? Is there a way to make it clear that I want the baby without it seeming like I am disregarding his feelings? Help!

Vivienne - I think you need to do a bit of sex ed. no method of contraception is foolproof for everyone even if used perfectly. Pregnancies don't always result from an obvious contraception failure. Sometimes it is just what happens.

People need to understand that we only have a limited amount of control over fertility whether that is getting pregnant or preventing pregnancy and they need to be prepared to be responsible for a baby or an STI that results from their actions in having sex even if they were tripling up on contraception.

All the griping at a newly pregnant person about being irresponsible with contraception is really uncalled for IMO - she even went with him to his vasectomy appointment. She's not his mother and shouldn't have to force him and if he really wasn't committed to it he should realise he had a part in making the baby that resulted from the failure of their jointly chosen and considered method of contraception.

As far as you go op. Your DH is likely to be upset and scared and this is awful for you but time will tell how he comes to terms with it. Don't have an abortion just because he wants you to when it is not what you would choose.

If I found myself pregnant now and my DH wanted to keep it I too would be writing it all out. Nothing wrong with that.

Your DH has every right to feel as strongly as you do.

However, what trumps all of those very valid points is that you won't be complicit in ending a life. There's no more to be said than that, other than to hope you both continue to have a happy marriage and family life together and that perhaps now he will get the snip which is far less emotional than an abortion but he couldn't manage it

I would. But then I'm in a position where I don't think I can tolerate any more pregnancies but DH and I are extremely fertile, so we may well be looking at the no PIV option long term. Certainly for a while, as I have been told not to conceive again within two years of my recent birth.

That last post was to wannabe.

I went to the dr with him to get the vasectomy papers last year. For some reason he didn´t fill them in or take them back.

This rather suggests the DH needs to accept his share of any blame. What was the OP supposed to do? Fill the forms in for him and drag him to the surgeon?

It seems quite clear that Wannabe is implying it wasn't much of an accident on the OP's part.

I have met a lovely man, we've been together for about six months but haven't yet slept together. I really want to, I am on the pill and have even suggested that he use condoms as well but he says that he's not ready to be a father, and so until such time as he is prepared to be a father he is happy to abstain from sex.

He has every right to abstain from sex. No-one has the right to sex with another person.

it seem that he rather drag her to the abortion clinic.

Do people really think that the mn masses would come out and say "he is being totally reasonable, if he doesn't want to have sex unless he is prepared to have a baby then that is a perfectly ok thing to do, give him as long as it takes because you are unreasonable to want to have sex with him given he doesn't want children yet." no didn't think so.

I rather suspect they would say that it is his choice and that you either agree with it and stay with him or you disagree and leave.

I appreciate that this is an emotive issue for lots of people for lots of reasons. We had a contraception failure. It was not deliberate. It was an accident. It is not important anymore who was responsible for contraception. The point is, it failed and we are where we are. I need advice on how to discuss this with my DH without causing any more hurt or finger pointing. Many of you have helped me with your comments, thank you. Some of you have made me feel horrible as if I subconsciously willed this to happen and that is ok too because I know that I didn´t do that. Has anybody else been through this scenario and can tell me how it panned out for them?

lady but for you that might be the solution right now. but if we're going down the line of "if a man doesn't want to get his partner pregnant then condoms aren't good enough and he should either abstain or get the snip if his decision is permanent," then abstanance could equally apply to new relationships, and actually if any woman posted on here that her new bf wouldn't have sex with her because he didn't want children yet people would say he was a freak and tell her to get rid.

OP, 5 years ago, I could've pretty much written your post word for word.

I'd say give him time.

My DH was booked to have a vasectomy which had to be rescheduled - in the intervening time between the first and second appointment, I got pregnant - it was a complete surprise.

We considered a termination, well, In my heart I never really did, but I went through the motions with him as he wanted to consider all the options. I couldn't go through with a termination.

We barley spoke for about 2 weeks after that - about anything. My DH had a vasectomy when I was 12 weeks pregnant (about a week before the dating scan).

I won't lie to you, it was hard. I wondered if we would come through it, but as time went on, he spoke more and more about the baby, but he was still very guarded. I think it's hard for men to feel emotional at this stage as nothing has really changed for them, whereas you have the baby growing inside you with all the hormonal and physical changes that that brings. Once the baby was born, he was fully on board (he has always been a very hands on Dad). It helped that DC4 was a boy after 3 girls.

Again, I won't sugar coat it for you, but the first 2 years were bloody tough, I wondered what on earth we had done. I suffered terribly with PND, and sleep deprivation. It put a huge strain on our finances and our relationship.

However, our DS is now 4, and life is much easier, our relationship has recovered and I'd even go so far as to say it's probably better now. I love having 4DC, but there is a part of me that hankers after what life would've been like with three; we would've had more money, more space, more time, my career would've recovered more quickly, I'd have more individual time with each DC. However, I love all of my DC with all my heart, and couldn't imagine life without any of them.

It's not a bed of roses, but it's better that I though it would be, back in those first dark days.

It sounds like your DH will get on board, his comments about getting excited about another sqooshie speak volumes to me. My DH never said that, although he comes into his element once they are over the baby stage.

I feel for you, it's a long and difficult road, but if it's what you want, I think it'll be ok eventually.

Take care.

Op, would you be able to cope on your own with 4 children? I know someone whose DH divorced her in similar circumstances.

Why is everyone arguing about who should have bolted the gate? The horse is out.

'Fault' is a stupid argument to be having.

Well, the truth is that you're not going to get an abortion, are you? I sense that there is absolutely NO chance of you being pressured into an abortion.

What this is really about is you not wanting to say to your husband, 'I will not get an abortion, that is 100% not going to happen' because you feel that if you say that then you will be taking full responsibility for having this baby, and that you (and maybe he) will always feel that this was 'your choice'. What you want is for him to say that he wants to go ahead with the pregnancy, and then you can feel that you are making this decision together.

I get that. I would also feel exactly the same and would not abort under your circumstances. Your husband deciding that he wants to keep the baby may well not happen though, and I think you need to be really brave and put your cards on the table about being in no way prepared to have an abortion. It's time that both of you started preparing for this baby that IS going to be joining your family (assuming the pregnancy goes well). It's not fair to keep him in this limbo where he thinks that there is still a decision to be made, when there isn't really is there?

op, given you don't want a termination you have only one choice really, and that is to simply tell him that you will be keeping the baby, whether he feels he can stay in the marriage is then his choice. But it is that simple really.

It may be that he hasn't thought of the possibility of leaving, and that to him the only answer is to terminate the pregnancy, and he may genuinely not want to leave the marriage but he sees things being difficult with another child. But with the option of termination removed it may make him think about practicality rather than emotion iyswim.

So I would just say to him straight that you're keeping it, the decision to stay is his. And then I wouldn't bring it up again for a while, let him think about things for a bit.

Tbh I am generally in favour of discussing these things before they potentially happen. not as a criticism of anyone who doesn't, but I know that e.g. me and my dp had a discussion along the lines of that no contraceptive is fail-safe, but given both of us are opposed to having a termination, if we ended up pregnant (fat chance given I spent six years ttc a second dc with xh) we would just deal with it, but obviously in the meantime we take steps to minimise this possibility iyswim. Neither of us feels strongly enough to be sterilised, but we feel strongly enough to put preventative measures in place iyswim.

OP I think the only thing you can do is to give him space and time to come to terms with the new baby. You can acknowledge that lots of the stuff on his list worries you, too, but it will have to be faced down and dealt with because DC4 is a fact and not a possibility to be discussed yes or no. First he needs to get his head around the fact that there can be no arguing against dc4.

He has every right to be upset, but none at all to keep arguing for abortion.

You need to make it absolutely clear that his 'argument' and lists of reasons are not needed or wanted. The baby is here and you are NOT having an abortion. He needs to go away and think about what that means and how he will be dealing with that instead of this ridiculous guilt trip.

I would not even engage with his arguments tbh its early days and you both need to take a step back and try to calm down until you know whether everything is ok with the pregnancy. You need to be strong about what this could mean for you and your husband, but I do believe (from what you've said) if he guilts you into an abortion you will never forgive him or get over it.

actually I think both OP and her DH should have been more pro-active as to one or the other not wanting or wanting more children and their options... It seems as if her DH wasn't proactive about following through with his planned vasectomy and OP wasn't prepared to look at other methods of contraception including sterilisation etc... Call me cold/harsh but if she really didn't want more children that's what you'd do. She says she wanted another child but thought her baby making days were over.

Her DH is obviously thinking about lots of things not only dealing with a sick child (their current) and OP not working (if that changes in the future) but also finances and the impact on their family/family life etc. She's using her heart he's using his head.

I don't think she should have an abortion but if the worst happened and she miscarried surely they both need to rethink their contraception options going forward?

base - fault is a stupid argument to be having but it's opened up a can of worms. surely prevention in most cases is good to avoid potential drama. Which makes me sound like I'm minimising pregnancy.

if any woman posted on here that her new bf wouldn't have sex with her because he didn't want children yet people would say he was a freak and tell her to get rid.

Some might. I wouldn't. His body, his choice.

The reason why we are discussing failed contraception is because it's important that OP's dh acknowledges that he was always running the risk of pregnancy every time he had sex with her.

It's not about blame, it's about accepting how biology works and that if he was so against it he should have taken steps to prevent it, as discussed already on this thread. He didn't do that and the resulting pregnancy is something that they need to face up to.

Mrs McJnr - I remember you from out conception thread when you had your first. It's amazing to see where you are now. I still have just the one and always wanted another but it just didn't work out.

I feel for you both. It doesn't really matter who's fault the pregnancy is or who's right about whether there should be a fourth child as others have said. The fact is you are pregnant and fundamentally opposed to a termination. If you have one feeling that way you will never forgive him or indeed yourself. You can't do it.

But given his comments at the end of his letter about excitement and fear as to coping I think he will come round with time and support. And especially once he meets his fourth child. He just needs your understanding of his position even whilst you explain that for you the deed is done and can't be undone.

I wish you all the best of everything in coming to terms with this and then managing the consequences. Have faith. Xxx

What a horrible situation. Another one saying he should have had a vasectomy and it's too late for him to persuade you of anything. But you can't make him happy about it. I guess he needs time to get used to the idea.

OP I was in your husbands position, my H in yours. We had a contraception failure with DC3 (I feel so guilty saying this because DC3 has just come up to me, said she loves me and kissed my poorly finger). I was devastated when we found out I was pregnant, I have whole term hyperemesis during pregnancy and had it with ds1&2 so felt like I was staring down the barrel of a gun. At 14 weeks, after vomiting 27 times in one day I booked a private clinic termination over the phone. H was devastated, he really hated the thought of terminating, we wrangled and eventually I relented because to be honest I was so ill I wasn't strong enough to argue. Even during the birth, with every contraction I was mentally screaming at H for making me have this baby.

Dd came out. Our little girl after 2 boys. She was brilliant and there is not a day goes by that I don't look at my daughter and think she was meant to be here and what a fool I was not to see that. If your DH loves you as you say he does and he loves your dc's he will love your new baby. DC's seem to have their own way of using their personalities to teach their parents something. My Dd taught me that I shouldn't give in no matter how tough as the reward is worth the battle. I was sterilised when she was 12 weeks though!

Thank you, these are really helping me plan the way forward.
Barristermum - Hello I remember you too

OK, I am going to take the liberty of recommending an abortion, because I am no-one of importance here and I would never do this in real life because these decisions are so absolutely personal.

But, first of all, I thought your husband's letter was lovely, albeit that it wasn't what you wanted to hear. He reads like a loving and thoughtful man.

Secondly there are five people who will be affected, for good or for ill, by your decision. And I would hate to think of your marriage going downhill (though I understand that your reaction to an abortion could also have that effect.

And thirdly if I understand correctly an early abortion is not really surgical procedure.

But whatever you decide OP. You and your husband sound lovely and I hope you can reach an agreement that suits everyone.

I would rather have the surgical. The medical involves 'birthing' the products of conception which IME is vastly more traumatic.