Panorama, BBC1 now. Domestic violence

[AnyFuckerForAMincePie]

Scary stuff.

I think a bit of balance is required....I would post pictures of my own physical scars but you might find them too graphic...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-30387077

www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/30202735

this from Yazbulls BBC managed to focus entirely on one gender and completely ignore the other?

yes they did, for once!!!! YAY!!! Its to be celebrated.

has anyone noted how the 'balanced' view of 'father4life' is the link thats been put in.. of course yes.

Are you acting for fathers here? Fathers and those crazy abusive antics of men scaling buildings are the reason why women are now being abused by courts.

Sorry, but I couldn't be less interested in the cries of men right now. There is absolutely nothing wrong with women being heard in isolation for once, because this is a highly gendered issue and the stats have clearly been manipulated. The way abuse is reported by dominating abusers has been made very very clear.

Do you actively want to detract from this rare opportunity, because if you do I am really wondering about that. All the abusive men in the country will be saying the same as you?

If women cry abusive men cry, if women shout abusive men shout louder.

There isn't anything worth risking shouting over the voice that this has finally given to the reality of the situation. The specialist services that rescue and save women's lives know what they're talking about.

Men's support services have been built on the back of it and are now draining the support available to women as a result.

and I think its been said many times that noone denies that female on male abuse happens, but its no reason to derail the valuable process that will SAVE WOMEN AND CHILDREN'S LIVES BY OUTING THE BASTARDS!

one persons report is not sufficient to 'balance'

Jodphers29

x post sorry!

You say: now come to terms with what i have done i am trying to make everyone realise that they could become a victim.

That is very laudable! You must have come a long way.

That's correct Morris, male on male violence is a problem within gay relationships and there are gay male refuges to deal with it.

The 1 in 6 figure is bandied about in the media but people don't seem to realise that some surveys ask men whether they have experienced domestic abuse in their lifetime and therefore the stats include the experiences of a violent parent.

The problem with self-completely surveys (as opposed to those based on crime stats), as I alluded to above, is that male domestic abusers frequently claim that they are the victim of abuse. They also may claim, if their partner has ever defended themselves or lashed out during physical abuse from the male, that their partner is violent.

As regards crime stats, the figures are skewed by the number of men accused of domestic violence who counter claim assault by their partner to disrupt the investigation into themselves and to distress their partner.

If you talk to people who work with dv, to dv charities, to perpetrator programme workers, and also psychotherapists who specialise in dv on both sides, the general consensus is that male victims of dv are actually around 15% of the total.

I really am not getting why its so important for you to 'allow' us as women to acknowledge that this is a gendered issue?

non-abusive men out there have no problem with shunning the bastards! so why should we?

please look up the type of violence that women perpetrate on men and how different is it to that of men on women (if you can call them men).

the gender issue is completely irrelevant. the programme tackled abuse and it doesn't matter which gender perpetuates it. it is a 30 minute film and in a 30 minute film you would feature 3, or at the most 4 cases. So to include a male victim would be to massively skew the reality because female on male violence / abuse is just not as common. there are lots of dv situations that were not covered in the film, simply because it was only 30 minutes and there was not time to do an exhaustive list of all the different types of dv. the film did an amazing job of really getting to the heart of what it feels like to be the subject of abuse and also managed to tackle a lot of the psychology behind it. that's pretty impressive for a 30 minute film. I've thought about my own dv situation pretty much every day for the last 6 years and that film gave me some new insights so i think it's done a pretty incredible job. Of course there is more it could have covered, but it was balanced, and it wasn't all about which gender was doing what to the other gender, it was about abuse, and what that looks like. I think it's probably had quite a big effect on a lot of people who have experienced it.

to everyone in that situation.

On every thread on male on female dv on the net, or any discussion on a newspaper website, there is always at least one poster, generally a bloke, with the 'won't somebody think of the menz' line.

From experience I've learnt that they're not generally people who are actually interested in male victims of dv, it's simply an attempt to subvert discussion of male on female violence. Some people find if very difficult to accept that it happens, that it is so common and they apparently find discussion do it uncomfortable.

I don't know about Yazz, but if people are genuinely concerned they could lobby for more male refuges (the earliest of which incidentally were set up by women) or volunteer for male dv helplines and refuges and help publicising the issue rather than simply sitting on the net carping.

Male on female, male on male, female on male, female on female dv all of their own specific issues patterns and the insistence on lumping them all together is unhelpful.

Hi sugarcoatedthorns

Are your last two posts towards me? I thought that the Panorama episode was very good, very valuable.

Scuz crap typing ^

noooo! defo not... i was going back to the responses of Yaz immediately following my last posts, I might have missed reading all the subsequent responses, and felt these things needing restating?

I couldn't watch it all, I couldn't get passed the bit where the girl was saying they would tell him to stop it [father abuser] and she was saying he always ignored us, listening and watching those words fall from her mouth were far too triggering for me as with many who have had DC try to protect their DM's from the FW. So I couldn't watch any more, but I have heard about the acknowledgement in the programme of the need in men for women, hence the moving straight onto next victim whilst blaming the last.

The FWex is busily accusing me to anyone and everyone.

As I understand it DV is far higher in gay relationships, and that figures quoted on male abuse DO include a lot of male fighting! and the male abuse in childhood. Weekly deaths of women, is weekly deaths of women, a shamefully high number, and what it doesn't include is:

The women who's DC are forcibly removed from their mother because of male perp.
The women who take their own lives because they just cannot live anymore.
The women who accidentally take their own lives trying to still the pain.
The unreported women who die without direct attribution to the male perp

and probably more?

this makes it gendered, and not recognising this is only hindering the whole process thats finally starting to have a louder voice in the community.

It doesn't matter to others being abused, as they will all benefit anyway, as said before, but currently men are taking the resources away from supporting women.

Please survivor Please, no need to feel you have to post your own pain as part of this debate. I'm not sure this will be helpful to you? and it won't alter the stats.

Thanks sugarcoatedthorns, I thought we were on the same page.

I watched the program late at night with subtitles so as not to disturb the family, so I didn't hear the sad voices directly.

sugarcoatedthorns - Just so you know, not acting for fathers here, or mothers, but for all victims of domestic abuse. Google - Erin Pizzey is DV a gender or social issue - and that is the first hit you get with that particular article....the fact that it was on a fathers website is irrelevant!

Twinklestein - Please do not make assumptions about what I do or do not do, the reality may surprise you, I am simply on here now arguing the case for an end to all DA/DV and suggesting that it needs to be approached as a social issue, not by targetting education solely at men, the vast majority of who do not need it, the same as the vast majority of women do not need it!

its gendered, and on a father's website - that makes it relevant!

can you explain why this is so important? that we ignore the gender role and treat it socially and ignore all the stats, and the underlying nature of the abuser, the power and control

I hear you sugar
and the reason every thread on domestic abuse gets derailed by the 'What about the men' brigade is that the resources they want to take away are those of support for the victim.
This is just another classic example of what Lundy means when he describes abusers deflecting an argument so that is no longer about the issue they do not wish to be discussed.
The women's aid figures on abuse that I posted above are clear and documented and fully analysed - they paint the picture of what so few people wish to see. Hypothetical pictures or 'I know someone who ...' mean they don't have to look at it.

All boys and all girls in school desperately need the education... All of them need it

oh hi Arth really good to see you again
and yes, absolutely... I was thinking of circular arguing as well and your mentioning the deflection techniques reminded me that I'd wanted to write that too, stonewalling - ah, yes, all so familiar.

Yazbulls Counterintuitively, you can weaken the understanding of DV by making it a non - gendered issue. That's the issue.

Yes, of course there are female abusers out there and male victims. We all know that.

If you take the gender out of the debate though in the interest of journalistic balance, you lose something, you lose understanding of the context and causes of most DV and EA

It works the other way round Dad
You start with abuse
Once you define abuse clearly and really look at its devastating effects and back that up with hard figures - broken bones, alienation, financial ruin, homelessness, psychological trauma, you realize very quickly who the victims and who the perpetrators are,

The question is what do you do about it