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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Panorama, BBC1 now. Domestic violence

224 replies

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 08/12/2014 20:58

Scary stuff.

OP posts:
CogitOIOIO · 10/12/2014 09:53

Sorry, didn't complete the thought..... men tend to be the aggressors but also the victims.

Yazbulls · 10/12/2014 10:56

So which of those two ways are you wanting to take it Wellwhoknew?

CogitOIOIO · 10/12/2014 11:16

Perhaps you could clarify your earlier remark Yazbulls? Do you think the programme had a gender bias or that it was unrepresentative?

WellWhoKnew · 10/12/2014 11:24

Yazbulls the way you intend it. Saves me making in an incorrect assumption.

TooSensitive · 10/12/2014 11:26

Hi
Did not watch the programme but my Aunt did and she said something to me about "coercive restraint". Can anyone explain what that is?

Bumpedbonce · 10/12/2014 11:35

Coercive control is a form of emotional abuse where the victim changes their behaviour to avoid upsetting the abuser. The program showed it very well but the new legislation coming in is going to be very hard to enforce

TooSensitive · 10/12/2014 11:37

Thank you. My aunt said it had made her think of the relationship (dysfunctional) I have with my h. Too scared to watch the programme which she said was pretty horrific.

CogitOIOIO · 10/12/2014 11:43

There were some violent images taken using police body cameras and also some very distressing stories. If your aunt thinks you are in a dysfunctional relationship similar to anything featured in the programme TooSensitive, then that's pretty worrying all by itself. If you can't bring yourself to watch it, perhaps you should be thinking about contacting Womens Aid?

Yazbulls · 10/12/2014 11:45

What do you think CogitOIOIO, do you think the programme had a gender bias or that it was unrepresentative?

CogitOIOIO · 10/12/2014 11:47

I asked you first :)

Bumpedbonce · 10/12/2014 11:49

Please if you aren't able to watch the program as it is graphic, read this link www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic-violence-articles.asp?section=00010001002200410001&itemid=1272&itemTitle=What+is+domestic+violence

dadwood · 10/12/2014 11:52

I have a friend, a young woman who is in an EA and DV relationship. I have posted a thread before asking for help about what to say to her.

Right now, she is separated from the abuser, YAY, but is considering going back to him because she feels sorry for him.

She watched Panorama when it was broadcast, but it didn't resonate with her. She said that her abuser isn't like that. She was much less isolated and much less bruised.

We need more programmes like this Panorama episode to de-brainwash society and de-brainwash my friend.

I keep telling the acceptable ratio of shit-to-coffee in her cup should be 0-100% She just says that she prefers tea.

It's a long haul to a society where EA and DV are rare. Great Panorama though.

Yazbulls · 10/12/2014 11:56

How many times did it mention male victims CogitOIOIO, and did it feature one?

CogitOIOIO · 10/12/2014 12:14

The programme title was 'caught on camera'. Since the vast majority of victims of domestic violence (10 - 1) are women, I think it would be reasonable if the violent examples caught on camera were mostly female and the discussion was mostly around female victims of male aggressors. However, the script also said 'women can be violent or controlling too and same sex relationships can be abusive. Too often domestic abuse against anyone is only tackled once someone is hurt'.

Yazbulls · 10/12/2014 12:28

I do not really want to get into a debat aboute about statistics CogitOIOIO, but nevertheless where do you get this figure of 10 - 1 from?

BTW, you did not answer my previous question?

Hissy · 10/12/2014 13:40

Yazbulls it was not THE perfect programme, by a long chalk.

It was however a MASSIVE step forward in the usual portrayal of female DV victims being stupid, low class and 'deserving of it'

this is not an be all and end all programme, it's a start.

Men are victims, to a lesser extent in terms of numbers, but in many ways I think they will have an EVEN harder job of coming forward or being taken seriously by authorities etc due to social conditioning.

This is a battle that has to be fought on all fronts, all the time and using sometimes the most obvious angle, to get the No Violence message across.

things will change, not overnight, not in one fell swoop, but by chipping away hopefully in a generation or two DV will not be tolerated by anyone against anyone.

Yazbulls · 10/12/2014 14:00

Whilst it is good you have acknowledged that men can be victims too Hissy I fail to see how a program which completely ignored that fact can be described as a massive step forward.

I am not sure where you have seen this constant portrayal you mention of female DV victims being stupid, low class and 'deserving of it' , but I do know that with alarming frequency examples of female on male DV are potrayed on TV, even, and most worryingly in supposed comedies, and I wonder what sort of message does that send out?

The point is, this is a social issue, not a gender issue, and unless or until that is recognised, publicised and strategies developed to combat it, nothing will change, yes, all violence is wrong, and the message should be as you say...simply NO VIOLENCE but without the constant addition of gender tags to undermine it.

WellWhoKnew · 10/12/2014 14:24

I can't be bothered. I'm all for debate and discussion, but provocation. Nah, I'll pass.

sugarcoatedthorns · 10/12/2014 15:01

it might be something to tell your friend Dadwood that if she's worried about making decisions because of 'consequences' thats all!

or, walking on eggshells to avoid upsetting him (someone said ^thread)

in a group of 'friends' one night one starting talking about a band playing locally, and i showed enthusiasm, the FWex made it clear it was a boys thing, I shut up about it, one of the other's partners made it clear she was very interested and would be going, I still shut up about it. I didnt even need to turn around to know the look and pressure that was coming my way.

I am really distressed about the programme, I was too distressed to watch it, and I am even more distressed that a show like that can't stand on its own merits and just be acknowledged as a massive issue, instead of the knee-jerk reaction of men stating 'but what about poor us, we get it too'

Did the show say men don't ? or that animals dont? or that children don't? or that ...... it didn't say everything at all.

It said far from everything relating to DV. I am years out and still struggling to go out with a non-mol against him, for fear of seeing him. Do you know what he says? He says I am abusive, thats its me thats abusive.

Do you know what the police said when I started to report things and had to be interviewed? They checked the records to find out whether he was already reporting me as the abusive one because, and I quote 'THATS WHAT THEY DO'

I have also attended freedom programme and listened to the tactics and the horror of it comes crashing down on me, again and again, that I was in some kind of fog and couldn't see what he was doing, and that yes, in the main it was psychological and emotional, but it all starts that way.

When in the freedom programme each battered woman attending was ask to raise their hand if they had been reported for abuse by their dominator. Do you know how many did? nearly all.

To use Male reporting stats in this way is to not understand at all what a perpetrator is about. A perpetrator is about telling loudly anyone who will listen that you are nasty to them, and that you 'MAKE' them so mad, that they can't control it because you 'wind them up' and it is completely and wholely your fault. They will beat themselves up and report you for abuse.

Nearly all of the women's mental health issues reported pertain to DV. These men hate women, and hate that they need them, they will not leave and the moment they do they are onto the next. They force women through court which is legalised abuse for a woman who cannot cope being in the same building as her perp.

Children, quite rightly, are not blamed for child abuse, it is the responsibility of the adult world to care and protect the children. Women are not to blame, it is the responsibility of every man to step away from other men that do this, and work to clear the world of male abuse. It is gendered, absolutely.

Abuse exists where there is inequality of power. So then, once a woman is 'moved in', married, pregnant (even tho baby might be rejected), all these things are hold's over women and render them tied to the male for various reasons.

physical violence and EA and PA are one and the same, the strength of tactics employed all depends on whats needed to keep you under control, and if its a shove, or breaking something precious of yours, or shouting in your face, or triping you up, or whispering threats... its whatever works and the closer you get to leaving the close the danger gets.

Women cannot physically restrain a violent man, or have any effect on him alone. This makes it a gendered issue.

sugarcoatedthorns · 10/12/2014 15:12

Yazbulls I am deeply deeply saddened that you can't think that this is a massive step forward for women as it stands, and acknowledge this on its own merits, without having to use this rare rare rare opportunity to defend men, or children, or animals, etc. instead? this wasn't about men, no it wasn't, it was about women? Thats ok isn't it. Not everything has to be about men. This is something happening to women in vast numbers. Latest women's aid figures 2-3 per week. Women locked away for murdering partners were primarily there for not being able to escape their perp in any other way.

when you see in the paper a man putting his hand around a woman's throat in full public view, and he thinks he can defend that somehow, he will probably be a man that claims his wife was abusive (liar), and that it was in fun (minimising, normalising). The best thing the men of the country can do is help women to stamp out male abuse, because non abusive men love women and children and want to protect them.

sugarcoatedthorns · 10/12/2014 15:16

the gender tag is the point

and I just don't see the need for this in the midst of such a breakthrough for women in abuse.

There are still many myths around women in DV, lets not pretend that there aren't, and there is lots of high profile victim blaming so lets not pretend there isn't.

Please cant you let this stand as a massive step forward for women in abuse and their children?

sugarcoatedthorns · 10/12/2014 15:18

This....from a man, about gender violence

Yazbulls · 10/12/2014 15:23

Like I say, gender tags do nothing to strengthen the argument for NO VIOLENCE ... how can there be no violence if we turn a blind eye to victims of any particular gender and in so doing allow their ordeal to continue?

I am not sure how the program can be considered to have made such a breakthrough for women in abuse unless you mean that against a back drop of cries for gender balance the BBC managed to focus entirely on one gender and completely ignore the other?

Yazbulls · 10/12/2014 15:26

This .... from a woman about it not being a gender issue ... note who she is

fathersforlife.org/pizzey/DV_is_not_a_gender_issue.htm

dadwood · 10/12/2014 15:31

Great posts sugarcoatedthorns ! I can see the asymmetry in society which leads to many more men abusing than women.

Here are two you mention which stick out to me:

Abuse exists where there is inequality of power. So then, once a woman is 'moved in', married, pregnant (even tho baby might be rejected), all these things are hold's over women and render them tied to the male for various reasons.

Women cannot physically restrain a violent man, or have any effect on him alone. This makes it a gendered issue.

The other thing is that men are pre-eminent in society, they have more autonomy in general. They are some men IMO who are scared of ceding control to or sharing control with a woman, which might feel like a reduction in their position of power.

It's all so unnecessary!

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