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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

is this classed as cheating?

208 replies

alix300689 · 09/04/2014 09:55

OK, here we go. Me and my partner. have been together 2 years and have an 8 myth old son together, I recently went for a holiday with my son to my mothers up north. While I was away my partner propositioned the town bike for sex 5 days in from me leaving and he got rejected but kept harassing her for days after, I came home he seemed different and I asked him if there's any explaining to do and carried on normal. He goes to work I stay at home and look after bub. We live in a small town of probably 100people mind you. I went to the shop Sunday afternoon for ice cream and movies and while there I had this woman approach me and ask to have a 'word' outside. She proceeded to tell me that my partner had drove to her property and coersed her into sex but nothing had happened, I couldn't look at her and got in my car and went home. Immediately confronted him which he denied all and he then got in the car to confront her, apparently she wasn't there. All was well and I just thought she is a delusional beeexh. Monday I got her number and rang her and she had said she seen my partner yesterday and he threatened her to not say a word because he would lose his family. He was at work so i asked this lady to send the messages to me and Iforwarded them to him, and told him he was guilty due to lying to me already about Sunday. I packed my bags and sons stuff and wasn't far off leaving. He came home and I agreed to stay on the terms we seek counselling and work thru this. I'm devastated and he has admitted it and remorseful and sorry but using the excuse that nothing happened so iys OK?? Arrrrgh

OP posts:
RiaOverTheRainbow · 11/04/2014 01:15

No dear. Expecting men not to rape is not misandry.

alix300689 · 11/04/2014 02:57

So I condemn him and leave and never give him a chance because is a failed rapist....I see now -_-

OP posts:
alix300689 · 11/04/2014 03:01

In all your eyes he is this person but he isn't. And that's OK. I can live with that because he isn't that person he's clearly depressed or something and we are getting help like he wants...but its just not good enough...is your husbands balls in your purse? I'd hate to seethe slightest fuck up non redeemable? Yes he made a massive mistake but if he knows that then its worth seeking help? Far out!

OP posts:
MexicanSpringtime · 11/04/2014 04:18

Actually I have been married more than once, alix, I've even been in an abusive relationship, but never in a million years would even the abusive one have dreamed of trying to rape someone. So no, I like and respect both men and women.

Offred · 11/04/2014 06:37

Some fairly big fuck ups are redeemable for both men and women IMO. Lots of women and men on this board choose to stay with their cheating partners and work through things. That is not what you are doing. Your bf hasn't cheated.

Attempting to rape someone is significantly worse than even a fairly big fuck up.

Staying with him you are taking a massive risk. It's true that you have identified that offenders are rarely really actually sorry but have you forgotten that everything he's done indicates that your bf is just sorry about you finding out? He doesn't think raping women is wrong, even if he was high at the time being high doesn't fundamentally change you and when he was sober he still didn't think it was wrong and he spent time and effort threatening her not to tell because he didn't want people to find out, NOT because he thought it was a wrong thing to do.

If you want to take a risk on someone who is capable of raping then that's your business. I think we all understand not being able to reconcile the idea of abuse with what we felt was a lovely man (when you leave the scales will fall btw). Please don't say or think you are doing this for your child. You absolutely aren't doing the best for him in staying with and making excuses for a drug taking attempted rapist...

Offred · 11/04/2014 06:40

And yes, your bar is set far too low if you think leaving someone for attempted rape is being unforgiving.

Don't forget the level of planning involved in this particular one and the level of covering up after and cabrinha's point that he has calculatedly chosen the women who would be likely not to be believed.

KepekCrumbs · 11/04/2014 07:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Offred · 11/04/2014 07:49

Let me be very clear. The risk to you I see is not that he may cheat 'again'... You're with someone who doesn't think raping women is wrong. The risk to you is that you will be raped and abused yourself and that your son will grow up watching it and being told he has to watch it because you are staying together for him.

Offred · 11/04/2014 07:53

And at the very least he will be using women for sexual kicks as and when he feels like it - porn, strip clubs, prostitutes, the 'town bike' and gradually marginalise your sexual relationship as is consistent with a Madonna/who're complex.

YoureAllABunchOfBastards · 11/04/2014 08:01

How do you do a stocktake on the mines?

Sorry, thinking out loud.

Only1scoop · 11/04/2014 08:12

You say "he's clearly depressed or something"

Please don't try to label him.

He's probably just fine and putting on an a great show because you caught him at his vile antics....caught him remember that.

Just because you have discovered what a horrendous liar and sexual predator he is....

Doesn't mean he is 'depressed'

Just gutted at being discovered and the implications Hmm

Vile.

pinkyredrose · 11/04/2014 08:43

Why do you want to be with a man that you obviously don't trust? An sti test 'to be sure' that he hasn't had sex with the 'town bike'!

Words fail me.

You actually seem sorry for him, convinced that he's acted out of character and that you can help him, to save him from himself. You are deluded.

sparkybabe · 11/04/2014 08:45

Op, you are very defensive and offensive to those who are actually trying to help you. You v clearly don't want to see this man as anything other than a good good man who has made ONE mistake. You May be right, you know him, BUT .. You have only known him a short time. It is quite possible for people to put on this act for some time, and people in the town DO NOT know him, not really.
He may come across as a fine upstanding guy, many many abusers are real charmers; it's one of their manipulation tricks.
He has shown you by his actions what he thinks of you, his family, and the ow. Incidentally, her reputation, it's been laid on her by other men in this town? They call her the town bike, presumably because they either get their end away with her, or she refuses them... No win, really. But she coaxed your dp, then turned him down? Hmmm.
Anyway, why don't you get some space between you? Go back to cairns, for a few weeks. Give him some more rope, and some space to think. If he is a good guy, and the fab father you say he is, he'll give you that space. It's up to him, not you, to change.

sparkybabe · 11/04/2014 08:56

Oh and one other thing popped out of your posts -you 'see how much your son loves daddy by his face' - tots this age light up at anything they see which is familiar the family dog, peppa pig on TV, next door neighbour... Doesn't mean he loves them, just that they are familiar and safe. Your son is not safe around a man who is a sexual abusive, possibly violent, threatening druggie. In a town of 100 people, your son is not going to get abetter role model. It's up to you to find a better role model for him.
And don't stay together because you are scared he will judge you for leaving his father. You have good reasons, and that justifies it. It's not your fault.

BuzzardBird · 11/04/2014 09:08

This is one of the saddest threads I have read on here but it is not the first time that someone has completely defended appalling behaviour is it? I am sure OP will be back, under a new name later down the line when history repeats itself but I doubt she will be back for now.
Please know OP that we will be there for you.

OxfordBags · 11/04/2014 09:12

OP, if anybody's a misandrist, YOU are. This man has commited a serious sexual crime, and you are brushing it off as a mistake and reframing attempted rape as cheating. By doing so, you display a disgusting and very worrying attitude about what's normal and acceptable in a man. Women who respect men can separate would-be rapists from decent men, and not tar the good guys with the same brush as the scumbags.

And you know, I've suffered from depression on and off since my childhood, and yet not once have I planned to rape someone. Funny that Hmm

OxfordBags · 11/04/2014 09:15

Btw, you ought to keep this thread for when your son grows up to be an abuser, predator and rapist like his father, to use in his defence. Because with parents like you two, it's going to be virtually impossible for him to grow up not seeing women as fuckholes who bring it on themselves. Good luck with that.

Maisie0 · 11/04/2014 14:06

I think you need to really put things into their respective buckets and see some perspectives. I also did not like how others label the cheater as the rapist already. That is a tad too harsh, since they do not know his behaviour in general. But one thing stands out a lot though. You mentioned that you guys are in a small town, and I dare say that most people here are from different cities, and maybe some are in the UK too. People's values differ. But one true thing remains though. No trust in a relationship means no relationship. That's it.

To me, it goes to show that he cannot have those boundaries set into place if he is in the same town that he grew up in, and knows everybody else. Is that why he went ahead and harassed someone else ? What kind of town is this ? In most big cities, people would actually hold each other in an arm's length kind of way, and draw a respectable boundary and line. He hasn't done this.

Having read the whole thread. I do also agree that distance is your ally here. Even if you do not feel like you can let him go emotionally and end the relationship asap. (I have been there myself.) Distance or separation will indeed be good for both of you. To let your anger, and to let your emotions come out slowly. Without throwing these angers or sadness against one another. So separation is to protect both yourselves. See it that way.

Yes, you may have a lot of ideas now about why things were not the best, but that should not excuse him of his actions though. You need to write them down and remind yourself.

The part about being a new father is true, and the people in my life I see their relationship have stabilised over a long period first before they have their first child. Maybe this intrinsic trust happens first. (You know, you get your every day bickerings out of the way first and find a workable solution and know how one another ticks, and learn to be there for one another.) But even so, it does not excuse his drug taking, or his burnt out step. He still need to deal with this. You also need to not get involved in this personal process of his either.

Future-wise, how can he be a father if he cannot take care of himself, and make better choices which doesn't risk his life, and therefore not able to look after his own child? Has he actually realised his responsibility in the far future? Has he even talked about kids, and how fatherhood affects him? Maybe he has not woken up to this awareness. If you guys are like < 30, I can see why this has happened. You need to see it in perspective and get an absolute good grip on this. But don't force and push yourself though. Cos you will resent yourself so much if you do. You still need to align, your heart, with your head, and with the action that you decided to do. Even if he feels bad, and he did things to please you but it is still against his own heart, and he doesn't say things and reflect on it. It will also end up in tears.

I just wish you luck.

sparkybabe · 11/04/2014 14:30

Op, you say he works in WA while you are 1000 miles from cairns? That is a long way - about 5 hours flight! That's like dp living in London and working in Moscow. If he's away 2 weeks on and back for 1 week, how do you know what he's up to?
Maisie - this guy mounted a sustained campaign to get ow to sleep with him, over several days. He admits he was our his head with drugs, ( for days?) And then threatened her to keep quiet (so he knew he'd done wrong, right there) - I reckon if not attempted, failed rape, then at the very least it is a sexual offence. What a charmer .

Maisie0 · 11/04/2014 14:37

If I have to be honest, and I work in a man's industry as well. IT. A lot of IT consultants have to travel across the world sometimes, more often than not. I dare say that to be so far removed from the intimacies of a steady relationship is pretty darn hard? I do not know if the guy realises this of himself, but it will hurt, and it does hurt. Especially if he has to be forced to work away and not stay near his own child. I do not know if he is aware of this before he decided to have a baby.

Even the best of the people in my industry, if they value home and family, they pull out of certain contracts. It really is not worth it. Either the mom home school the child, and the whole family go together where the father works. I do not know how people do this kind of flying and commuting lifestyle in the US. But I know that if this was in the UK, even commuting say between North to South is tough enough. I know that people really do this, but they also is self aware of this kind of risk and find ways to mitigate it affecting their own relationship.

If this kind of topic has not been talked of before, then you really need to talk about all of this now. Cos your family structure is not stable to begin with. I myself also quit contracting cos I realised it will remove me from having a family. Most job agencies will take this into account. So I would not worry about not finding options. If somebody has done this before, then it means the structure exists.

Maisie0 · 11/04/2014 14:41

If he is turning to drugs, then he is losing control of himself an his life. He needs to be aware of what he is doing. If he turns to drugs, I dare say that he is not aware of his own action to begin with. Yes, he needs to be made aware, and when that emotion sinks in. Boy will it hurt. 100 fold !

Yes, OP should move out and put distance in place. Even if he has to suffer because of this. He needs to find ways to "clear" his own head first. Meditate. Reducing his hours for work. Detoxing his whole body now. Run everyday to get rid of his anger. He has to do it all, and endure it.

Op- DON'T give into the sympathy, he has to detox himself and his body as well. Do not be that anchor to help him. You can't.

Offred · 11/04/2014 15:58

What are you wittering about Maisie "quick to label him a rapist"? How many rapes does a rapist have to try and commit in order to be called a rapist? 2? 5? 15? Confused

Rapists are rapists because they don't understand/agree with consent and/or don't think raping women is wrong, not because they are struggling with being away from their families... Hmm

CarryOnDancing · 11/04/2014 23:10

It is so infuriating that you keep saying "he's not that man". What man isn't it? He IS the man who ran out to have sex the second you were out of sight. He IS the man who tried to force someone to have sex. He IS the man who threatened a woman. He isn't a stereotype, he's a real life offender and he's living in your house! At best he's a cheat, at worse he's a sexual predator.

I'm sorry you don't like the responses here but I have a little task for you. Why don't you write a post as if it was written by a stranger reading your post and replying. How and why would you post anything other than has been posted here?!

I'll have a go for you...

Hi OP, I think you should just forget about all this cheating business because...well erm...you know...yeah you know...he's not that type of guy.

The guy he is, is the guy who tried to force someone to have sex with him. He is that guy! Who the bloody hell else can he be? The fact you don't want him to be titled as a predator and cheat doesn't negate it!

I think it's an absolute disgrace that you are victim blaming. So because this woman has previously had sex with a married man (allegedly!), she's fair game for anyone to try and hump her and it's not seen as an issue because she's the "town bike"?
You seem to have the same attitude towards women as your OH does. I find that terrifying considering you have a child!

Why oh why did you get in touch with his exes? I really can't fathom the idea behind that? So he didn't sexually force anyone before, how does that relate. If a murderer kills for the first time, are they not a murderer?!

Lastly, are you ok? I mean really ok? Your posts really aren't reading well.

Maisie0 · 11/04/2014 23:26

Offred: To be honest, I know I would not use the word "rapist" in this situation cos it is a bit strong. (That is based on what the OP said about her partner knowing the woman already, but yes, I also agree with you that some rapists also know the people that they rape too.) I would say that he is an "opportunist" though. What I will agree with you though is that he also did harass this other poor woman, because he deliberately drove out there to her house. Which also looks quite bad too. As a complete stranger reading this story, my alarm bell is also ringing too. I will admit this. You do not need to persuade me with your arguments, I understand where you are coming from.

Out of respect for the OP though, I think she is upset enough, and do need to see it from a different angle too. I dare say that she needs to look after herself right now. That is indeed the most important point first of all. As to whether the guy will feel remorseful or not, or whether he would not be determined to have strong will power to really deal with this himself, is only down to himself to figure out. Cos it is indeed very inappropiate what he did. Ignorance is bliss. But he has to be absolutely aware that he is now a father, and has a partner, which means every other woman is off the table. He is not a teenager any more, and he is not someone in his 20s wondering who he can date or not etc. That is no longer applicable to him. He has to understand this now. He has to learn to do this, and do so by himself, and not because the OP will push him to do this. I hope the OP is reading this. Cos his actions mean an awful lot more, if it comes from his own heart, and he is sincere about how he will make amends, and who he want in his life. Unfortunately he has to earn his own trust back from his partner, and also earn back his own dignity as well in his own hometown.

I think that is all I can say on this. I know that if this was me and I was in somewhere which I do not feel all that comfortable say London, I definitely would label such a random man as a rapist. Especially if I have pushed him away. But I also know that if this was in my own hometown back in Yorkshire, and it is say someone like my old high school friend, I would see it differently too. Cos we have or had a shared history and bond, but I would not never in a million years jepodize their relationship or to allow them to jepodise mine too. In fact, if we go out, I ask both themselves and their partner to come out too. We make it respectable, and everyone has to attend. There is no hidden coffee tete a tete etc.

In fact, I have actually met such a rapist before. Someone who used an excuse of "sorry, wrong room" ! I was very humiliated especially when he was the one who ended up telling our mutual colleagues at that time, and this other man "tried" to joke off the situation, but I was not amused. I held it together til my contract ended, and then I cried my guts out. This was a consultancy place whereby they had "rental flats" (with no locks) for various individuals to stay in for the duration in the week. I shall never actually ever do that again. As my friend said, I should have requested actual separate places to stay in. Or to request for a hotel. He was an a-hole. I can tell you that much.

OxfordBags · 12/04/2014 01:01

Maisie: the MAJORITY of rapists are known to their victims, not 'some'. And knowing someone, and being somewhere familiar does not make rape or attempted rape something other than what it is. You have some very naive ideas about sexual assault.