Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 28

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Next time this happens, hang up the phone the MOMENT he starts shouting or being aggressive. Don't engage. Confirm the time, and then disconnect. No further discussion is needed.

alice I was doing so well, and we were starting to communicate about him helping clear the old bills, which was a relief because I really can't pay them single handedly and don't feel like I should have to. It felt like progress. I'm an idiot. Back to insisting on text communication.
DC are worn out and asleep already. Just going to curl up with a brew and some tv and try not to let it get to me.

Oh yes the old "he is being reasonable on some level" trick. Then you begin to treat them like a variable of a normal human and BAM! When they behave like a total tosspot - it cuts twice has hard. Therefor giving maximum impact. Grrr! Have had my fill this week, can you tell?

DC's and I are good. A few small changes on my part has had a profound affect on their response. Just trying to remember to breathe. Such a simple thing but so effective.

tweedle Glad to hear you and DC are good..I saw your posts and know it hasn't been the best time. Breathing is good .
I need to remember to keep my guard up with him, I let it drop a bit when he started being reasonable about our old bills. Big mistake. And I'm dreading having him come over to see DC tomorrow because I know he'll start. I've been sat here mulling things over that he's said and figured out he not only hates me for leaving, he hates that I'm happier and that DC thriving without him.
He's been going on all week about how much happier he is and I thought good, that's nice for you. But it's not enough that he's happy, he wants to see me miserable and failing and moping around. And I'm not!
Had a bit of a cry anyway, early night now. Sleep well all.

I have to remind myself sometimes to let karma do its thing. Much as I'd like to go on FB and utterly "out" my ex's behaviour to everyone on there (that he's lied to about everything), what's the point? It'll just make me look bitter. I'm angry that he never seems to have consequences, but I remind myself that sooner or later he will.

I'm mindful that he took great pains to tell me how much his family was accepting of the OW, happy to replace me with her. I then find out that's not the case. Other than SIL (the now deceased one, who was his biggest encourager/supporter) and one of her daughters, everyone else was rather about the whole OW thing. Now that his behaviour is getting more ridiculous, they're much more over it all.

He also mentioned that some of our mutual (if you can call it that - they are friends that I met through him) friends are very supportive of his new relationship and made quite the effort to point this out. So I find myself wondering if this is true either. One couple in particular have raised their eyebrows at much less bad behaviour, so I suspect he is trying to convince himself on this one.

I sometimes wonder if he's desperately trying to convince himself he's happy, rather than me. I am not overly worried, tbh, as it's a situation entirely of his own making, so if he's not happy, that's his problem. But I find it curious.

I suppose another example of how we waste time contemplating how they think. But this, at least, is more of a "pondering" rather than a desperate attempt to fix anything.

Loads of things going on today, but will pop back on later.

CurtWild Hope you're feeling a bit better today. Easier said than done, I know, but try to just detach from it. When he starts going off, disconnect. You don't HAVE to listen to him, enjoy the freedom of simply hanging up.

FW: can you have dc's on (this) day because I have stuff to do
me: yep, no problem

me: can you drop kids off at mine 7:45 am?
FW: Why?

15 texts later from him and me only re-sending my original question in response every time. Final last 2 texts "Why are you keeping secrets?" "Why won't you tell me what you are doing" "WHYWHYWHY?"

I don't think the fact that I am working and the kids are hanging out with their uncle has anything to do with him. He has decided it does. I have text him the question again this morning. Also giving him 2 other options to chose from. HE IS A MASSIVE PENIS and I hate that I will do things for him (I am a nice person) and that I cant even ask him to drop the DC's off 15 minutes earlier without this level of interrogation. He dropped DC's off at 10:50. 2hors late) last week and I just accepted it because I am not HORRIBLE PERSON.
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

alice I know he won't let this drop now he's back in douche mode. He's like a dog with a bone. And I have to deal with him today when he visits DC. He knows I won't make a scene in front of DC and I know if he thinks I'm being 'arsy' or evasive he'll just up and leave early.
tweedle They are penises (peni?). I'm really disappointed in myself that I got flustered and upset and had to hang up. I've been as good as I can be about him visiting DC, even saying yeah sure you can keep them at mine while you see them, if you want to see them more just text and we'll organise it. Kept his sodding bags of man crap for weeks because he couldn't be arsed taking them, make him a brew when he turns up because like you I'M A NICE PERSON! Then I get interrogated left, right and centre, asked why I need to be secretive about what I'm doing..no secret, just not doing anything! No dates, no shags, no nothing. I AM HAPPY ALONE..YOU HAVE PROBABLY PUT ME OFF MEN FOR LIFE!!!
Not looking forward to today. Must remember to breathe.

good luck curt you can do it. Remember though, we are allowed to get flustered, we are allowed to react, we are allowed emotions and a voice. if they choose to be negative about our reaction, that is THEIR problem. it is years of being in an abusive relationship that has caused us to 2nd guess our own emotions. Also spending our lives trying to please them has raised the expectation we have on ourselves.
and breathe, and breathe...must remember to breathe.

Thanks tweedle have a nice day all..I'll pop back later with an update.

Just remember, you don't have to get all angry and hang up ... just calmly say "goodbye" and set the phone back down/hang up. Nobody an accuse you of being rude. It IS difficult. I still struggle with this - it comes back to that feeling that we have to explain ourselves and make excuses all the time for everything. You don't have to do this.

• "No." It's a complete sentence.
• "I can't." That's actually a complete sentence as well.

If he chooses to be wretched and leave early, that's his problem. Yes, it may upset the DCs, but they'll be okay - just explain to them that he had to leave.

You're not being "secretive" at all. You're being "private" and you have every right to do so. He does not have the right to demand any information on your private life. You don't have to "make a scene in front of the DCs" either. If he is being uncooperative and nasty, simply take the children and walk away.

Ex did this on his last visit (about a month ago). Said he was going to leave as he didn't like my "attitude" and the "mood" it created. Fine by me, there's the door. He was in the house less than 5 minutes. Not sure if he expected that, but I'll be damned if I'm going to have him telling me how I can feel in my own home. DCs were fine with it. They just went on playing and ignored it all.

Sorry, only read quickly, Curt, simply say he is there to see dc, and by repeatdely questioning you, he is harrassing you, he should stop.
All communication by text or email. If there is anything he needs to say, he can email you. Set up a separate account and access it when you want to.
Broken record technique, you are here to see dc; I do not wish to talk, anything practical, please email me.
An unreasonable person does not become reasonable because you leave.

If he continues to harrass you, you will have to move contact out of your house

Curt I sincerely hope that he has put you off abusive men for life!!!!

that is indeed the gift that the ex FW has bestowed upon me I love that he gave me such a fantastic gift [he'd hate it, ha ha ]

Tweedle he brought the DC back nearly 2 hrs late [without explanation or notice? - was it an emergency?] If I had someone's DC and didn't bring them back til 2 hrs after the agreed time without a word, I would expect a roasting. I think its important more than ever that boundaries are stuck to, they are the most important thing to be asserted once out of abusive rs? How did the DC feel being back so late, did they want to get back home, have no voice in that, life being unpredictable, him not sticking to his word /the arrangement between you? to my mind its about being respectful to each other, not being 'horrible' or 'nice'. Or am I way out of line here? The only thing between you is the arrangement for the DC? and they need to have their arrangements respected, as do you.

Ex has finally realised the DCs are alive and well. He is coming into town next week and wants to see them. He's only ignored them utterly for a month. He's suggested two different days, of course, both days that we have plans already. I am not changing our plans.

Alice

I'm not changing them. I don't see why we should alter our plans simply because he and his "bit on the side" happen to drop out of the ether. Yes, that's me being catty, but I am quite pissy about all this today. MIL mentioned again on phone today that she didn't want OW there tomorrow, and yet OW is coming to visit. And then Ex and OW have decided to come back into town again on Monday and "spend the week" with MIL until the funeral on Friday. He's obviously a bit concerned about MIL and I spending time together. Doesn't matter. I'm taking the DCs over this weekend to see her, when he's not there.

If he wants to see them, I may be able to carve an hour out around our plans. Maybe. But only if I can wrangle someone else to be there as well. I'm not dealing with him on my own.

Good for you alice .
Well this afternoon could have been worse. The main news being stbxh has decided he's superdad, which is great for DC but ..my spidey senses are tingling which when we were together meant he was up to something.
He brought sleepsuits for the twins and Barbie baking buns kit, baked with DD1, helped her set out a little tea party for us and the twins. All very 'happy families' ..and a bottle of wine for me because 'you've had a tough few weeks'..so basically his verbal abuse from yesterday has been glossed over.
This jekyll and hyde thing happened often in our relationship, he'd be an utter shite, ignore me for days, then come in with sweets for DC and a bottle of wine, all smiles. Then we'd sit and he'd completely re-write history, gaslight me and want to discuss my behaviour, because obviously I'd purposefully provoked him to be a dick. Grrrr.
Anyway, he all but outright accused me of over feeding the twins because they are, in his words, 'getting a bit porky'. So I just showed him their red books where the health visitor only last week weighed them and noted they are perfectly on track for 16 months. Oh and he turned my gas fire off, to save me money (grrr)!
I'm suspicious. Not sure if I should be but those tingling spidey senses never let me down before. Guard firmly back up. I graciously refused the wine btw but he left it all the same.

Urgh and there's a random bit of text at the bottom of this post from further up..my stupid phone won't let me scroll down to delete. Apologies.

ck for 16 months.

curt guard up for sure!!! They are always up to something.
I dropped DC's off at FW's as they are visiting his parents for the week. I have 7 days of no kids. I am excited and terrified at the same time. They will of course have a lovely time and FW is the picture of loveliness when at his parents house because he doesn't have to lift a finger he doesn't want to lift so I know the DC's will see the best of him there.
Dropping them off though he was very intimidating. There has been drama over drop off times. I rather rudely asked him to drop them off earlier (I was not rude but lets observe this as a FW) so therefor I must be up to something and am keeping secrets which is why I asked him to drop them off earlier. He approached me on this when dropping off. Asking if I was talking to him, why I wouldn't look at him, how 'mature' I am. I told him it was none of his business. Kissed the DC's and wandered off to him shouting behind me.
I took control of the situation and I did not react. Just got to learn to do that with my DC's now.

And alice well done. You sound really strong, not catty at all. I think you speak the truth. It is hideous behaviour on his part. But I guess it's the behaviour which gets the most powerful reaction.

CurtWild ooooh been there. So frustrating. Ex can turn on a dime, he can. One second it's superdad, just when he first comes in, or when the DCs listen, but very quickly he's bored, frustrated, shouting, and so on. He wants them to do what HE wants them to do. In other words, not kid stuff. I always expect him to turn around and make a fuss about me drinking if he buys me wine. As he has a drinking problem and I rarely drink, I can't imagine it going far. But even so...

alice I'm not much of a drinker either, and it's white which he knows I can't stand . My brother just started seeing a lovely girl so I'll pass it on to him to take over next time she cooks for him.
Just got a text thanking me for a nice afternoon and he can't wait to do it again ..why does that feel like one of those texts you send when you're first dating?
Last week he was going to destroy me, yesterday he hated me, today it's wine and thank you texts.
DO NOT ENGAGE.

Yes, I know that while ex is being polite at the moment, as soon as I do something he doesn't agree with, it all goes to hell again.

I am absolutely not having him in my house again unless there is someone else here with us. I'm currently looking at options of where to go in the area with the DCs, in case I can't find someone that can be here. And I'm still not changing my plans.

alice Would it be asking too much of your mil to be there with you? It sounds like you have a decent relationship with her and she seems to realise her son is a knob. Or would it be too much for her with the funeral and all?
Stbxh text to say he wants to take us for lunch on sunday. I haven't replied yet. I don't want to go but I'll only have myself to blame if I turn him down and he kicks off over not seeing DC.
Go, and keep the peace, plus DC get extra daddy time. Don't go, and shit hits the fan.
Plan C would be for him to take DC on his own but I know he won't; he has no patience with them if we're out to eat and they make perfectly normal baby noise play up (his words not mine). DD1 is 3 so she's easy to occupy with paper and crayons (or an iphone!) but at 16 months, the twins are easily bored so won't sit for hours like he expects them to. It's perfectly normal for them to get a bit vocal or fidgety, he seems to have forgotten DD1 was like that not so long ago!

She does, but she finds it difficult to stand up to him. We've been there before. I think it would be too much for her with the funeral this week.

I will most likely last minute simply say "okay, you can see them for an hour - we'll go to McD's and you can chat with them while they eat their tea." I don't want him inside my house, it makes me feel unsafe.

That's fair enough, and after not bothering for a month then 'graciously' wanting to see them, an hour in mcds sounds like a plan you can live with.