Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 28

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I have the same here Curt where he quizzes DC over my whereabouts and activities, whereas I feel this information about him is unwelcome to me when DC tell me, I do sit and actively attend to the chatter, but only in response to DC chatter; the less I know about FW the better

Fi I wouldn't even consider stepping in if she weren't grieving from the loss of her daughter barely a week ago.

fairy I do wonder when he quizzes me if he's expecting me to retort with the same type of questioning (so he can list the stuff he's been up to) and I do believe he's disappointed when I don't, hence him then texting how happy he is without me blah blah blah. He seems to be forgetting one vital fact: I DON'T CARE!
Wow. That felt good

yay Curt absolutely. it's all bluster isn't it.. stuff to show how very well they are doing without us... well thats great so go away and do it then! Keep trying to shove it in our faces...mmmm?

aw yes, I do hear that Alice its horrible for her for him to do this to her at this time at any time! She will remember the way he behaved during this difficult time and it will have its effect I imagine, maybe it will be the catalysing moment for her about her future dealings with him, now knowing what she does.

noooo... not what she does

... what he does

ooops i'm very confused now... and sorry if confused you! it is 'knowing what she does'

as in 'knowing what does know now [about him]'

fi and curt totally agree. same here.
I get quizzed to high heaven but snapped at for asking xyz.
today I get a 3 minute rambling answerphone message tellin gme how I am ruining his life because I cancelled a Dr's appt. which was text to me. Me thinking "i don't need that, cancel it, it must be an error" is apparently me being vindictive as always and trying to ruin his life.
Funny how last night I agreed to the dc's having 2 holiday with him and agreed to take over one day which he needs off for some stuff and he said he appreciated my flexibility.
But then next day, total bitch. how I swing so successfully between these personas is beyond me as I feel very level.
obvs I don't - its all in his looney toon head.

(Just to say I am so for your DMIL Alice - my posts are coming out a bit terse today )

Fi I understood you the first time .LOL

STBXH was always asking questions, "suggesting" for me to do this or that with the house or things in the house, and telling me about what he's been up to - much like he was still playing happy families - when he came on the visits. I kept trying to keep the conversation to a minimum so he could focus on the DCs.

Now, of course, he's off with the OW and there's pretty much radio silence. He's focusing on trying to avoid me - I wonder if the embarrassment of how foolish and awful he is behaving has finally set in? Not that it will change his behaviour, mind you.

fairy and tweedle I think it rattles him how 'cool' and unfazed I am by his bleating on about how incredible his life is now. Surely I wonder what (or who) he's doing..err..no, matey, I don't.
He was so sure I'd be begging him back and I'm not, therefore the only possible feasible reason must be that I have someone else in the pipeline. Err, no, bizarrely enough just being away from your abusive ways, enjoying my DC and getting back to my 'old self' is more than enough for me to be happily alone. Knob.

well done for that Alice I was so busy tying myself in knots and still making a hash of it.. I gave up!

oh Curt to be happily alone !

oh yes.... knob, what a knob, for seemingly showing-off, trying to inveigle personal life info and feigned shock at my refusal to speak with him, the FW! - he has no answer as to why I don't speak when his latest show-piece gf asks why. He cannot say its because he terrorized me/DC whenever we didn't do something (we don't know what because he never warned us! [FW] )

Arg just letting go in a mini rant. Fw has successfully made me feel that me and dd have no choice but to move out to my parents, he's made me cry every day for last 4 consecutive days and I am absolutely sick of it. Always being reduced to tears. Today he came home clearly spoiling for a fight and I mentioned quite innocently that I thought dd should still be wearing a cardi to school, cue massive kick off about how I am judging his parenting. And she ran to him :-( . I hate him so much its just going to eat me up. Then he says he isn't going anywhere til we sell house, and I say ok ill sort that out and then he accuses me of havjng all the control. I desperately can't best the idea of going to my parents, of it being virtually impossible to work as I will have to do drop off and pick up, although I have just bought myself a shiny ipad so he can't confiscate computer anymore, and I think I can work at home in that.

Just hate being at my parents ESP as my dads role on all this in secretly emailing and taling to fw, but I want out and the divorce could take months. I can't
Live like this for months. I also don't think I could live at my parents for months and I don't think they would let me.

Feeling a bit desperate. Holiday with dd in a week and a half now but fw will get worse in run up as he's mad he's not going.

fairy it's like they've forgotten the shit they put us through and how that impacted on us and ultimately our much lived DC. He, and I suspect yours too, just doesn't get what he put me through, I was a wreck of his making and now I'm myself again.
alice stbxh always has to comment on what I should or shouldn't do with my house when he visits DC. When he first did it things were very raw so I was a bit scathing in retort. Now I just say 'oh' or 'right' or 'maybe'. It's a none starter so he soon stops.

Hi Alice, just wanted to say I am sorry to hear about your SIL. Your poor MIL. Loses a dd, and her son can't even make his own way up.

daffodildays interestingly enough, his family is not impressed at all with his behaviour. I think they are finally starting to see the "real" him.

Morning ladies
So stbxh just called to say hi to DC. Figured I might as well ask what time he'd be here today, we finally agreed wednesday is his day to visit..much to his chagrin as he hates tying down to a specific day but because he refuses to stick to a certain time I always end up having to ask. He ummed a bit then said he'd pencilled a visit in but wasn't sure he'd be coming..wtf?!? He pencilled our DC in?!? His one day to visit, they were only pencilled in???
How I wanted to respond: $@&%&@&% ..you get the picture.
How I actually responded: Ok, no worries, shall I tell 'y' we can make her sons birthday party after all?
Polite goodbye. He'll 'let me know' before ten. Grrrrr. Knob. Knob. Knob.
And breathe.
Also I want to get a puppy, something mid size, family orientated. I always had a dog, growing up, so I'd like DC to have that too. Do I have to check with stbxh before I get it? I'm sure he'll have a problem with it if he can, in a 'if there's gonna be a dog around DC you should've discussed it with me first' type way. He may have a point so wanted to know if I should preempt that and mention it first?

Why would you need to discuss it with him? Nothing to do with him. As long as you're using appropriate precautions (not leaving dog alone with children, training both dog and children how to deal with each other, keeping dog poop picked up in garden, and so on), I can't see where he'd have any reason to complain (or any business complaining anyway).

Would you ask his permission to get a goldfish? Or a hamster? Of course not. Do not ask him. Do not warn him. Don't say ANYTHING. If you give him reason to think his opinion matters on your personal decisions, he will take it over.

alice that was what I thought, it was actually DM who mentioned he might have an issue, to which my response was it's my home etc etc. Just thought I'd get another opinion first. I was brought up with two german shepherds, so I know how to handle dogs and what DC will need to learn. I'm not looking to get anything that big, I have a friend who's springer spaniel is due to whelp in a couple of weeks and she's a lovely family dog (friend has also offered me a free pup which is quite exciting!), DC are used to being around dogs at my parents/friends houses. Excited now!
Update on stbxh visit: He'll be changing visit to thursday this week. Luckily neither of us had mentioned him coming to DD1 and she hadn't asked him, so no upset 3 yr old today, and a party to look forward to later. There will be !

Curt I too have spent wasted much too much of my time and energy waiting for responses. Best WA practice.... state when is convenient for you all, if he can't manage to evenly merely pencil in [grrr] his own DC on a regular basis, his loss frankly. How old are they? Not that you need to specify atall, just that before teens the consistent routine is really helpful to them adapting to change, ironically?!

That game of waiting to be able to respond to invitations, yes it is important that they see their father, but its very important too that they don't miss fun and important events like friends' parties. Ask them what they prefer and act accordingly and just let him know? You could do that?

If he no shows, then ask him to confirm before each visit or you will make your own plans and don't wait past a deadline for a reply, be free to enjoy your lives. Everything used to revolve around FW here, which included rearranging everything if it didn't suit him, again WA best practice, get on with your life and recovering and having fun, ignore it and him.

and... awwwww.. yes! get a doggy!

he won't be happy Curt - but we don't care

fairy it was the same here with everything revolving around him when we were together, I told myself I won't let the same apply when we're separated but when it's visiting day I do try to be a bit flexible. I spoke to my friend about it being such short notice on going to her DS 2nd birthday (luckily she knows stbxh is a knob) and she was fine with us still going .
I have a 3 yr old DD1 and twins 16 months. Although DD1 did initially ask for daddy a lot she doesn't bother now. If he comes, great, if not she just gets on with cbeebies or painting etc. Twins don't miss him at all. I just realised how sad that is .

Same here CurtWild - the DCs don't even bother asking about him. They haven't seen him in almost a month, and he hasn't bothered to ring them to speak to them or even ring to ask about them. So he's off their radar now. It is sad, but IMO it's better than him letting them down repeatedly or coming over and being aggressive and abusive.

I was given secondhand info that STBXH is in a bad way, his nerves are shot and he's basically falling apart at the moment. But that info comes roundabout through the OW, so I don't know how accurate it is. And no, I haven't spoken to her, but someone who has spoken to her told me this. His family members have already voiced the opinion that he simply doesn't want to face them as they're all angry with him. Time will tell - if he shows up for the funeral or not.

I'm just going to get on with my life and not worry about STBXH for the time being. I'll start putting money aside for the solicitor for the eventual divorce, but I'm going to focus on the DCs and redecorating the house the way I'd like it. I'm almost finished putting the flooring down, and it looks amazing! I cannot wait to get the living room fixed up.

Counselling tomorrow. I have a few specific things I want to discuss. Looking forward to it.

alice As sad as it is, it's his loss not theirs. He was all gung-ho about seeing them when we first separated, using them to get at me, and he was convinced I'd be a bitch over visitation. Now he's realised I won't let him punish them to punish me, and I've been reasonable about him seeing them, he's pushing them further down his list of priorities, and I do think he's trying to gradually fade out of their lives altogether. At one time I would have gone ballistic, attempted to facilitate more contact. Now I'm happy to let him get on with it if that's his intention.
I'm with you on not worrying what's going on with stbxh, concentrating on the DC and the house and working on myself. Hair dyed and tidied, and asking for new clothes for my birthday next week
Congrats on the flooring..isn't that feeling of satisfaction that you did it just part and parcel of moving on. I'm dying to get stuck in on the bathroom .

Aaarrrggghhh just need to vent. Lovely time at the party,.stayed to help clear up and got in at six. Stbxh called to confirm time for tomorrow (unusual) then said he doesn't believe I'm not seeing someone. I said very matter of factly that I'm happy on my own. Cue loads of shouting about how it's my fault we're separated, my fault he doesn't see DC and how I always expected too much of him. I answered calmly that all I ever expected was a husband who would love and respect me (I always thought that was a pretty minimum requirement for a decent marriage), and that if he wants to see more of DC then we should discuss it. Cue name calling and that he hates me. I hung up on him.
So all this bluster about how happy he is is bullshit, isn't it. And he can't bear to think (or believe) that I'm happy alone. He doesn't seem to think that if he could have curbed his vile behaviour things might have been different.
And now after a really lovely day I'm just all over the place again. Hopefully DC are worn out enough to go off quickly so I can sit and have a bloody good cry.