Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 28

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

tweedlezee I don't have to imagine it - I have one DC with disabilities and another being assessed for SNs. Those same scenarios show up in my house on a regular basis. I get exactly where you're coming from, and it IS stressful. I'm not trying to make you feel bad. It's hard, I know. But I also know that you are feeling badly about it, and telling you it's okay without at least trying to provide other options wouldn't be very helpful.

My parents spanked us with a belt (and other things) and made us feel horrible sometimes. That's led to a very conflicted relationship with my parents, and I really struggled with this when my dad passed away a few years ago. I have a fairly decent relationship with my mum at the moment, however that is because we do not discuss this particular aspect of my childhood. At. All.

Because of my DCs' SNs, I have to constantly remind myself that their behaviour is often because of things that are out of their control. And I try to remember how I felt as a child when my parents were shouting at me and hit me. I don't ever want my child to feel that way. When I get too upset or frustrated or stressed over behaviour, I tend to sit back, take a deep breath, and try to calm ALL of us down. We do utilise time out for certain rules that are broken - "We do not hurt others." So any hitting, kicking, pinching, biting, and the like are "time out" offences. I offer them the option of sitting in a chair by the wall or going up to their room for the time out. I have always explained to them that "time out" is to allow them to calm down so we can talk about the behaviour that was naughty. So if they go up to their room, and can calm down in 2-3 minutes, then fine. They come down and we talk about the problem. If it takes 10 minutes, fine again.

DS1 often does the shouting, kicking, biting, and so on. I have found for him that asking him how he feels and inviting him to sit with me, cuddling, seems to help him calm down. He is just starting to learn to talk about how he feels. He's 7yo, but emotionally younger. If I were to get angry and shout back, he'd just keep shouting and getting worse. (I know this because this is what STBXH always does) He's still struggling with the idea that it's okay to be angry, it's a valid feeling, but that he cannot just do whatever he feels like doing when he's angry - he cannot take it out on everyone around him. It's a work in progress.

And it will take time for this behaviour to go away.

I said I never would that was why I was so surprised when I did.
I think maybe I need to spend some time with them. Like some quiet time where we can interact and talk. I think sometimes it can be so busy going here and being there that we maybe don't get the same quality or quantity.
alice I think your point about putting myself where they are is good. You can lose perspective in those moments in your life and I think that is why I spanked him. I have never known either child to be like this that is why I know I must be able to do something about it.
I think the fear is the same for myself and dc's which is a loss of control. Which is probably why it explodes so quickly. I think combined with everything and maybe some PTSD, it is very emotional at the moment

It is emotional. I get so frustrated sometimes that I have to not only deal with everything child-related by myself but also all the nonsense and hassle from STBXH as well, and it can feel so overwhelming.

It will get better. Some days I cling to that. It will get better.

It will get better and some of this is just their age, some of it, as you know, is because they feel safe letting their anger out at you. When my dd went to nursery 2 years ago she was like this a lot, I used to get in a spiral of fighting with her, but actually the only thing that ever worked was doing more things with her, days out etx, and being extremely calm. I used to just try ad remove myself emotionally from what was going on . It's very tough to deal with this so don't beat yourself up.

I think that is my today. it already has. have chatted to DS, initially he hit me when I sat next to him but I persevered and I think maybe that is just showing me what I need to do - persevere. Initially he was refusing to cuddle me, then he realised I was not going anywhere and his physical demeanour changed and he cuddled right up to me and talked for ages.

thank you - I knew this would be the place to get some perspective.
time for a

Hi everyone, delurking. How can I be doing so well, and then be brought down so suddenly by FW? Just as things are going smoothly he emails me a total rant, ending in how 'payback is growing ever closer' 'shame on you' 'you will pay for a long time to come'.

Asked him what on earth he was on about (shouldn't have responded), and he replies that he's been feeling low. No apology.

I know this should just wash over me by now. No point trying to drag an apology, it doesn't mean anything. It should be like water off a duck's back. Ignore ignore ignore.

But for some reason today, I can't concentrate on anything. I'm picking over the different bits of the email, trying to work out what he's getting at. He's finally getting what he wanted - DD now happy to stay over with him (following my intervention), a huge cash payout on the horizon once the house is transferred. And yet it's like every time it calms down he has to start a drama.

How do I pull my head out of this?!

noregrets78 I had angry texts when I first separated from stbxh (now a month ago) saying things like he'd destroy me, no one would want to know me when he'd finished discrediting me..it was awful. I responded then, demanding to know what he thought he could discredit me over seeing as I'm just a normal, run of the mill woman with no skeletons. I spent days wracking my brain, frightening myself because he's very convincing when it comes to making stuff up and I didn't (still don't) put anything past him.
It's horrible when you start jogging along quite well and suddenly find yourself on the floor again. I ignore everything he says now that isn't regarding our DC. And when a horrible or insulting text comes up out of the blue it just serves to remind me what a git he is and how much better I'm going to be without him.

tweedle just wanted to add that when I see DC behaving in this way, I always think poor mum !! It wouldn't occur to me to think that mum was in some way implicated in their behaviour, but purely trying to cope with their behaviour.

I was scared of my own shadow by the end and couldn't stand up for myself, scared of FW hearing of nasty DM and her appalling behavouir etc.

DC (and I) had to go right through the pain barrier, it challenged, triggered and absolutely exhausted me, but the process helped me to see that these were DC behaviours and actually not the FW, altho it felt like dealing with FW.

DC are very capable and find it easy enough to know that different homes can have very different rules and I kept it simple like that. I do things differently to him/he does it differently to me. Everything is so totally different.

I had the same thing with the Dc not accepting any boundaries I tried to put in place, exactly the same with me ending up hiding in my bedroom crying and not wanting that to be seen and door being hammered on and forcing the way in pushing me etc. It was very bad.

It isn't now. You will find the way to put the boundaries in, and the process can be very messy . The Dc will scream against it,but will be all the happpier for it and will relax once they concede that you have the control that FW trashed Deal with the most dominant child first, even if they don't respond immediately you are still showing yourself to be the adult in control by asserting the boundary, even if its ignored (the less dominant one will be watching that and see that the other DC is doing the misbehaving).

tweedle glad you got some cuddle and chat time with your DC.

We were lazy and did McDs tonight. It was an easy and fun choice after sports club and the DCs are happily munching away now. After doing a bunch of DIY today, the last thing I wanted to do was cook and clean up the kitchen.

Noregrets - this is an email for the police. Blatant threats against you, and how you will be paying for a long time to come. Pass it over to them on 101 and let them deal with it. They may well allocate someone to interview you and then have a word with him that it will have to stop. Based on this you could have a PIN issued against him. If he repeats then they would be able to arrest him for breaking it. You no longer have to live with him, either in your house, or your head. This is a threat and you have no idea what he has in mind, no wonder you are feeling brought down by it. He is losing control and that will mean likely escalation, you cannot know his state of mind or manage a FW! let thepolice

Noregrets cant believe he could try and justify that with an excuse like that! What a complete pump!

I second Fi about police and the emails, noregrets. The first seems a veiled threat against you, the second, perhaps, a veiled threat to self-harm. This stuff should be reported, you should not try to handle it alone.

[Disclaimer: opinion formed from reading MN, no 1st-hand exp thank god]

you're all right, of course. I have been to the police previously, when he made non-specific threats on the phone. They had a word, and it did the trick. So in a way I'm pleased he did it by email this time! I'll need to think about it though. DD is finally getting on with him, things have been calm. If i just ignore I think no more might happen for the time being. Although I often say that...
In the mean time I shall work on my resilience so I don't buy a packet of fags whenever he upsets me!
Can't scroll back on this phone but wanted to sympathise with those struggling with DCs. DD is a bit older (9), and there is nothing worse than hearing FW's words coming out of her mouth. But I've made real progress in the last few months by explaining that I get upset sometimes when I have bad memories, and explaining what is and is not acceptable. Good sleeps to all xx

Noregrets you can make a report for information purposes. so that there's a record of it. Then he won't know you've contacted the police, but it's there if things escalate.

Good God. You lot are simply extraordinary. When things are better - and they will be! - you'll look back over this one day, by accident, and realise how bloody amazing you are. Dealing with emotionally impossible situations in a state of already deep trauma: just amazing. It's clear all the DCs here are being deeply cared for, each mum here putting herself through hell and back to make sure she's keeping her DCs safer and happier than she ever was. And all whilst dealing with the most incredible fuckwitted FWs trying to trip you up, catch you out, sabotage your minds. Power to all your elbows. It's a privilege to know you. And Noregrets: act as your name suggests. Tell the police. Those threats are not ok; they're illegal; and the police need to know the level of emotional terrorism happening. Go for it. You're in charge now. No regrets! :) Cake, chocolate and out right respect to you all.

Rang MIL this morning - been checking on her daily with a phone call to see how she's doing. She's absolutely baffled as STBXH is sending his "fiancé" down to spend a day this week with MIL. MIL has no idea why, doesn't want her to come, but doesn't want to create a fuss. I suspect this is STBXH's way of trying to get MIL to "get to know" her so that MIL was then "approve" of them. MIL has said basically "not going to happen." I told her if she didn't want the woman to spend the day with her, just TELL them, but MIL is uncomfortable saying anything. I am furious that STBXH is basically pushing this woman on MIL, he didn't even ASK, just told MIL that she was coming to spend the day. But I can't say anything to him. I will just have to be there for MIL and hope they stop being so pushy. If they don't, then I will have to speak to another relative to step in and say something, as it's not fair on MIL to have people pushed on her when she's mourning her daughter.

Noregrets its concerning that his rs with his DC is dependent upon you keeping quiet when he threatens you (DD is finally getting on with him...things have been calm)? Have I read that right?

Acting out of fear of their reaction is a hangover of being in an intimdate relationship with a FW.

The only time to act is when threatened?

wow Melb

Alice... how awful can't believe it! I guess he's not doing this so that she has some extra support from someone!?

but, yes, it would be down to MIL to either graciously accept or say she's busy elsewhere,etc. If she doesn't, don't suppose there's much you can do? You can only support her I guess for it to be ok to not have visitors forced upon her? Its more difficult for her, and with the current situation she is not only mourning but also very much in the middle of a horrible circumstance playing out around her with her son and his carrying ons!

Fi This was a development that occurred after STBXH realised that I had brought the DCs over to MIL's and spent the day with her and the DCs, so I imagine he's trying to jockey for position or something. I don't really know. It's a bit ridiculous IMO. I visit MIL because she is family and she likes to see the DCs, and I want to be there to support her. End of. I don't care one whit if she has a friendly relationship with STBXH's new woman or not. None of my business.

The reason I'm annoyed is because MIL specifically brought it up to me and mentioned that she was not happy about it. So obviously it concerns her. And she doesn't need the extra stress right now.

But as usual, he's not considering anyone's feelings but his own.

its horrible Alice... its difficult that she has shared it with you, because of your emotional relationship with STBXH, but nevertheless she is the only one that can say no? If she says yes to this, what can you do really?

Totally understand your anger at him for his pressure on her, and yes, only considering himself completely, but if MIL is agreeing to it?

I only wish I had the same rs with MIL that you enjoy, so that DC could enjoy that still

alice Not even asking his DM if she wants to spend time with his 'fiance'? Knob. I suppose you mil feels like she can't refuse, which is an awful position for her to be in.
Stbxh called this morning to speak to DD1 which turned into an inquisition..have I been on any dates..am I seeing anyone..he guesses I'll already be sleeping with someone. Cheeky sod. No, stbxh, to all of the above, not that it's any of your business. I managed to cut him short as I was heading into toddler group, but bloody hell if he's going to do that every time DD1 passes the phone back to me, I need to teach her what to press to hang up on him when she's said goodbye!

Alice she must deal with it how she thinks fit. But she has shared her feelings with you, and you have validated them. We all know how important that can be.

Fi It is difficult, and I've told her that if it gets too uncomfortable for her, to either let me or another specific relative know, as that relative will definitely tell STBXH to back off. I'm trying carefully to stay out of it, as I don't want to be accused of meddling. I just hate seeing MIL so upset and overwhelmed when she is already grieving. She said she agreed to it because she didn't know what else to do. That's alright, though, we're visiting her the next day, so while I won't ask how it went, if she tells me she was unhappy about it, then I will take matters further.

Fi, are things between you and your ex-MIL bad? Assume she's taken his side and not looked past things to just see the DCs? I generally don't bring up STBXH when speaking to MIL. It's always her that brings him up into conversation... and not necessarily in a good way. Still, I try to be careful what I say. She did offer me his new address, which he did not give me, so I wrote it down so I could forward his post. And pass it along to CSA if need be. I texted him this morning to find out if he was planning on paying the maintenance as usual, and he said yes, so we'll see what happens on Friday.

CurtWild Definitely teach her which button is the disconnect. That's like STBXH being angry because I blocked him on FB so he couldn't see what I was up to. He's already made a veiled comment about me introducing any men in future to the boys (a few months ago), and I very calmly said that if I felt it was his business, I'd ring him, but not to wait by the phone. Prat. Amazing how they feel they have a right to privacy and their own life, but we've apparently got no right to that ourselves, isn't it? I suspect this is a common trait.

TSP Yes, exactly. I didn't really know what else to say. I feel so badly for her, it must be so difficult. She apologised profusely for STBXH's behaviour (which is more than he's done!), and I had to keep telling her it wasn't her fault, she shouldn't feel badly at all.

alice Yes. Incredible that he has to know all my business and yet I don't even have an address for him, let alone know what he's up to!
He followed up his call with a barrage of 'my life's so much bettter without you in it' type texts. Yawn. To which he got no response. Like you, alice, I've told him that if there was ever anyone he needed to know about (and right now it's a bloody big if as I'm content on my own with DC and working on myself and our home) then I'd let him know . Love that you blocked yours on FB, that's the first thing I'll be doing when I reactivate mine

oh yes, it is horribly difficult i really feel for you Alice, but all the same I wouldn't take matters further on someone else's behalf especially when its the mother of a FW! I would stick with giving her your support and validation to do what she feels she needs to do.

We have this same conversation frequently at FP. What ours and others FW's are doing to other women. Commonly the resultant tactic is to then completely isolate the woman [MIL] to ensure that there is no recognition of FWittery, but blame those that support the woman [MIL] in her realisations, as that must be stopped at all costs! and it works.

MIL here started out by recognising what FW [her own son] was doing before I did, and told me to get out and that was very weird for me, when although his actions had made me extremely distraught, I was thinking that it could be changed, he would realise and it wouldn't always be like this. eventually (painfully 'eventually') I realised of course that it was only getting worse. He then set about changing the dynamic between us. She would leave DC crying, slap, withdrew support and babysitting, and joined in the undermining; both his parents had very little interaction actually. I realised that all the effort for strengthening bonds between all came from me! - perhaps a familiar story? doing all the gift/card buying and remembering special family things,etc. creating opportunities for DC to have contact. Was pulled up very short at the reaction.

to go back to your MIL; empowering women through supporting them in their own choices, and not trying to tackle their situations for them. I reallly think she has to decide whether or not to tackle things with her son, your continued support and validation will be invaluable to her.