Should I give a third chance?

[bendaroo]

I am in a real dilemma and can't easily talk to RL friends at the moment - kids at home for holidays, DH at home in the evening.

My DH had a friendship with a colleague two years ago which I was not happy about as he told lies and kept the extent of their friendship from me. (I knew about the lies because I looked on his phone and texts did not tally with what I was being told.) However he always maintained it wasn't physical. but during this period, he diminished my feelings and made me feel unreasonable and overly jealous. During a year of couple counselling, things improved and we agreed to keep things open and for there to be no more secrets. So I feel I gave him a second chance.

But I have just found more evidence of him agreeing to meet up with this person again and therefore lying as he has not told me himself. It's not a betrayal in a sexual way, I don't think, but by agreeing to travel to a sports event together he is going against all the work we did in counselling. I don't think I can trust him after finding this out and I don't think I can stay married to someone I can't trust. But we have 2 children and I'm in bits at the thought of splitting up.

He doesn't know that I know by the way so I'm keeping things ticking along as normal which is also really hard. Not sure what to do??

op I am going to be blunt -

You are two years on from this and still you check his phone every night?

Regardless of the current situation, it's blatantly obvious that you haven't actually moved on at all.

rebuilding of trust involves total transparency on the part of the individual who seeks to regain that trust, however, at some point it also involves the individual whose trust has been broken needing to trust again, and it')s clear you have never reached that stage. Let's completely discount the current situation for the moment. A meeting on a train could, after all, be entirely innocent. but let's leave that out of the equasion and look at everything else:

You check his phone daily. You check his emails. You see one email and you're considering hiring a private investigator. Even if your dh is totally innocent, do you really want to live like this? Paranoya is a hideously destructive emotion - both for the person who feels it and ultimately for the relationships that suffer as a result. And if your dh is innocent at this point (meeting on a train does not constitute starting an affair you don't know actually happened in the first place) at some point your paranoya would destroy the relationship anyway.

All this sneaking around achieves nothing on either side. The only way to resolve this is with complete honesty. Obviously he knows you check his phone/emails, so just ask him outright. Game playing just leads to more game playing IMO and is counterproductive. Either you have an honest relationship or you don't. and if you don't then you need to question whether you can stay like this.

You're right thank you thinginyourlife.

He does know it would cause massive problems. Which must be why he has been so careful to delete messages. I just can't believe it's turned out this way and now I'm the one with the responsibility of dealing with it and ending the relationship.

Like our 12 year marriage means nothing to him.

Wannabe - he would be outraged if he thought I checked his phone so no, he doesn't know I do.

I have kept doing this over two years because every now and then I see reference to something which he's lied about. Always been silly little things but they are there. Never big enough to end the marriage but lies nevertheless. How can I move on when I see evidence that he is lying?

I realise I should have ended things two years ago but I didn't. Hindsight is wonderful. I believed his promises to be honest (but I wasn't naive enough to take them at face value hence the checking).

It feels rubbish to snoop but even more rubbish is being lied to and not knowing.

The fact that he never cut contact with this woman tells you everything you need to know about how much his marriage means to him.

After the first row and the counselling he should have stopped texting her.

He performed contrition to keep you there, he didn't mean it.

And you knew that somewhere or you would have started to trust him again. Thankfully.

i challenged him about text msg when i was 5 months pregnant with 2nd child but he refused to speak about it as he felt nagged. he walked out after the argument and returned later that day again telling me what i wanted to hear. i left and rented somewhere new with my ds and unborn child. it wasnt easy it broke my heart but my mental health was suffering. my children are happy with there life now and my ds doesnt have to grow up seeing mummy cry all the time. i still love my ex after all this time but its easier for me now. time is a great healer. ps. i was with my ex for 16 years.

Whether their relationship 2 years ago was physical or not, it was Inappropriate and he should have cut all contact with her at that point. I am not surprised that you have not been able to regain trust when he is continuing to contact this woman.

Would he completely cut contact with her? Maybe get the Shirly Glass book. Whether you decide to cut your losses and end the marriage, reading it may make him realise that what he is doing is NOT ON. Whether or not the train journey was going to be an innocent meeting, the fact he is hiding it by deleting emails means that it is not.

I'm with wannaBe. Your relationship is dysfunctional.

If my DP checked my emails and texts I'd be furious. It's not normal after so long

Either you are paranoid and reading into things ...or he is playing away. Whatever, it does sound like the relationship needs to change or end.

Btw everyone lies. Even if its just a lie to a telesales person. Everyone lies. Sometimes lies are told because the real explanation is long or the consequent questions are endless. Lies to deliberately mislead, defraud or hide unreasonably ...are different. I do wonder if your checking and questioning is exhausting him and he lies because he's tired of interrogations? Just a thought...

Thanks addicted for your message. It helps to know what other people have gone through.

That's exactly it Norma - why wouldn't he tell me he wanted to hook up with her for train journey if it was innocent? He would say it's because I would get upset about it and blow it out of proportion. But then surely if it 'means nothing' he could NOT meet up and prioritise my wishes over his own.

Athinginyourlife - that's it- my instinct told me he was still lying. During several months when it was good between us, I felt no need to check and on the odd occasion I did check there was nothing. But every now and then he went wierd and detached from me. Like this last time, then I found the suggestion to meet up.

But I know he'll blame it all on me somehow

Christ, not the "everyone lies" lie

Giving a simplified account to a telesales caller is not a lie.

Lying to your wife constantly means your relationship has no sure footing.

There could be no innocent meeting with this woman. After the year of counselling and the close call in terms of the marriage previously, arranging to meet her and lying about it very far from innocent.

I think that you have no choice now but to end the marriage. He has made contact with her, knowing how you would feel about it, lies to you and deletes his messages in order that you won't know what he is doing.

He is clearly putting contact with this woman (and his desire to do whatever the fuck he pleases) above his marriage.

Living with someone who routinely lies is soul destroying. There is no way forward if you are with someone who has no concept of how very important absolute honesty is, in a relationship. Especially one where there has been 'infidelity' in the past.

If you give him yet another chance, what you are really doing is giving him permission to carry on - there will have been no consequences for him.

Maybe I am paranoid toothbrush. But why should he choose what information I have access to? Do you see what I mean - by him lying, he is controlling what I know about this friendship.

I don't control information on any friendship I have like that. Because I have nothing to hide.

Well if the facts are that he is lying to you constantly and he is having an affair (not just an innocent catch up on the train) then I guess you separate.

No further discussion required. Just leave.

So bide your time, get your ducks in a row, and do it when you are strong enough mentally and sure enough in your decision not to accept any of his poxy blame.

He did this all by himself.

The only way you can be blamed for this is if you accept that you shouldn't have a problem with your husband lying to you and secret meeting the woman he almost ended your marriage for.

If you think that honesty and care are central to a marriage, then you can't be blamed for leaving a marriage that offers neither.

This isn't a friendship and that's why he is controlling the information you have access to. It crossed over into something else when he started lying and deleting texts and seeking her out, even after you had told him how uncomfortable it made you. He chose contact with her over his marriage.

Why did his "friendship" with her continue after you almost split over it?

But those are not the facts toothbrush which is why this is not as easy as you suggest.

He might not be having an affair. He is hiding a friendship from me. Is that enough to end a 12yrar marriage where there are two children involved? How do I know? I don't, that's why I'm asking for help.

I'm so angry with him for putting us through this when he could have chosen a different path. And I can't believe I'm about to end it on this basis - it seems so flimsy.

If you asked him to cut all contact with her, would he do that?

The friendship continued because they worked together, closely.

They had to see each other every day, then jobs got rearranged after our counselling (nothing to do with this situation) but still same building. They no longer work together at all and there is a huge distance between places of work. But they share an interest and both would be travelling to same sporting event even if the other wasn't. So of course it makes sense to travel together and 'catch up' unless there is a me in the background unhappy about it. Then surely the right thing to do is travel alone. That's what I'd do anyway.

It's really not flimsy.

Whether he's fucking her is irrelevant at this point.

He did a year of counselling and didn't mean a word of it.

He brought your marriage to a crisis and continued the behaviour that almost ended things.

You have every reason to feel a functional, trusting, loving relationship with him is no longer possible.

He has two children to think about, but still he knowingly risked his marriage to keep this relationship going.

Children don't mean you have to out up with any shit your spouse throws at you. Despite what some people seem to think.

I'm really sorry. From what you've posted, it isn't about whether it's a 'friendship' or something else. It's about trusting him, and him acting outside of that trust, knowingly, which goes against the spirit of your relationship entirely, especially after what you have already been through.

It isn't about what's happening now - it's about the fact he's deleting his emails and not keeping you involved and telling you what he is doing.

This secrecy is the problem. It is a massive wall between you, he feels entitled to keep this part of his life separate from you, and that is not how things should be if you are together.

I would be in bits too, but I think you know that this isn't a relationship any more - not in the way it is supposed to be.

Much love x

Thanks for those thoughts. I'm off to carve pumpkins/ help with half term homework. I have been so distracted with this for several days and not sleeping so feeling terrible all round.

I do appreciate comments as several will give me resolve and strength not just today but as I work through this in the next few days. I might not come back for a while though as I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed with it.

bendaroo its entirely up to you what you choose to do. everyone has there own bounderies. i personally couldnt cope with the lies. i 100 percent made the right decision and no longer have to spend my life being a detective.

Good luck bendaroo. We will be here when you need to talk :)

Despite many other posters saying get yourself ready and then just leave ...it does sound as if you lack conviction about the circumstances here? So 'just leaving' doesn't feel right for you?

On this forum you will get lots of opinions, personal viewpoints and people projecting their own experiences.

No one can tell you exactly what is going on in your relationship. From what you have posted, it's obvious you are struggling however. Only by talking to him will you get answers. The answer might be that your trust has gone and is irreparable. He will never be able to recover it. Or it might be that he really is stupid and has no idea how his behaviour is making you feel (to him it's innocent and thus he sees no issue) or it might be that he is devious and lying trying to spin you along....or it might be that you'll never be really sure what is going on. It is only you who can make the decision whether you can live with any of the above, more importantly your feelings about it all..

I agree that after a yr of counselling with an outcome of 'keep things open' it seems to have failed. Good luck. I appreciate how difficult a decision this is and your angst over it.

Have fun with the pumpkins, bendaroo :)

Just remember that this is your life. You don't have to stay in a marriage that is making you miserable because you can't justify it to someone else.