Should I give a third chance?

[bendaroo]

I am in a real dilemma and can't easily talk to RL friends at the moment - kids at home for holidays, DH at home in the evening.

My DH had a friendship with a colleague two years ago which I was not happy about as he told lies and kept the extent of their friendship from me. (I knew about the lies because I looked on his phone and texts did not tally with what I was being told.) However he always maintained it wasn't physical. but during this period, he diminished my feelings and made me feel unreasonable and overly jealous. During a year of couple counselling, things improved and we agreed to keep things open and for there to be no more secrets. So I feel I gave him a second chance.

But I have just found more evidence of him agreeing to meet up with this person again and therefore lying as he has not told me himself. It's not a betrayal in a sexual way, I don't think, but by agreeing to travel to a sports event together he is going against all the work we did in counselling. I don't think I can trust him after finding this out and I don't think I can stay married to someone I can't trust. But we have 2 children and I'm in bits at the thought of splitting up.

He doesn't know that I know by the way so I'm keeping things ticking along as normal which is also really hard. Not sure what to do??

[EdsRedeemingQualities]

I am projecting - I was in a relationship once where I found I wanted to spend time with someone else.

During those times, my existing partner was irrelevant to me - I felt guilty, and knew I should not contact the other person, but at the same time I felt it was really important to me to be in contact with them, and if my boyfriend was going to be hurt by it, then that was the price I'd have to pay - or rather, he would have to pay.

Not that I slept with the other person, it was a singer, and I went to see him in concert (was v young) but boyfriend couldn't understand why he couldn't come with me. It was because the potential of being with someone who made me feel 'complete' was still out there, and my boyfriend, however lovely he was, wasn't cutting it in that way. I felt I needed more than him, or that there was potentially someone better suited to me out there, and sadly after a while we did break up - he was having similar feelings about other people though.

I just don't think your H would be arranging/suggesting to meet with her, even on a platonic basis, if he didn't feel the need for something beyond what he has with you - that doesn't reflect on you, at all, just like it didn't reflect on my lovely boyfriend when I was 20.

But I don't think it's a great basis on which to continue an exclusive relationship. He is looking elsewhere, and hiding it from you out of guilt, because he feels compelled to do this. He probably knows how wrong it is and how unfair, but if he didn't want to do it, he wouldn't.

I am so sorry. It must be very hard to carry on as normal.

[anniewoo]

I think the private detective on the train journey would give you definite proof one way or the other. Thinking of you. Keep strong

[EdsRedeemingQualities]

I do think she already knows enough tbh, I mean yes you would see exactly how he acted with her but it would be really difficult and risky.

No offence - but if he is deleting this stuff without telling her, it demonstrates that he wants to compartmentalise to a degree which is really not feasible within a happy marriage.

If he'd consulted her before asking the other woman to travel with him, or even said something after asking, that would be different, but he hasn't, and that tells you enough imo.

[Countingfriends]

Going against the grain here.

Everyone is looking at the most obvious - but that may not be so.

If I were you I'd want a lot more information before ending a marriage which involves 4 people.

Do you know how this meeting cam about?

It could be entirely innocent- and because he knows you'd see bad in it, he's kept quiet.

What's the sporting event?
Why is he going with her?
Has she perhaps initiated this- and he's gone along with it, knowing full well it is innocnet- but that you'd think otherwise- hence not telling you?

There are all kinds of scenarios here.

I don't think you should rush off and end a marriage on this.

Talk to him- that's what you need to do.

[bendaroo]

The meeting came about because he asked her if she wanted to go with him, she said she would be delighted to join him.

After seeing email, we were chatting about his plans and I asked him who he was hoping to bump into/catch up with. He named 3 people (2 men and 1 woman- the woman I don't know myself but have no reason to feel unhappy about. I've met her once and nothing ever been hidden). Anyway no mention of the woman in question. He actually said "they are all the people i want to see".

If I could talk to him as a reassurance, I would. But once I say I've looked on his phone, that's it. He will go ballistic. And I can't see anyway past this for me in terms of trust.

So I'm existing in this horrid state not knowing if I'm brave enough to tackle it or bury my head in the sand.

[BethFairbright]

Has he ever admitted that this friendship was inappropriate?

[EdsRedeemingQualities]

Oh no, that is really hard for you. You poor thing.

How could he be so contemptuous.

You don't have to tell him you have looked at his phone. I wouldn't. Not if it meant the anger got thrown back at me...you're going through enough already without that.

What you can do is start to detach - start to think practically about what your options are, if you choose not to stay with him.

I wouldn't suggest more counselling as it clearly hasn't made any difference to him, and he's still prepared to deceive you.

What and who have you got for RL support?

[bendaroo]

Beths- no never. Throughout year of couple counselling he argued it was just a friendship. Despite them admitting attraction one drunken evening and he told me he thought she was in love with him. He still felt it was fine and I had no reason to be threatened.

Next weeks counselling is me only. Our counsellor agreed to see me for sole counselling on basis that we can't then go as a couple. No point aiming for couple.

Mediation will be our next step I imagine. Crap this, he has been my rock in the past.

[bendaroo]

Wierd day - I'm sitting at table surrounded by glue, airfix, boys doing homework creations and my 12yr old puts a song onto computer to 'cheer me up' as he thought I needed it, I suppose.

Only problem was the song was Jar of Hearts. Would have made me cry were it not for the jolly way my kids were singing the song!

[BethFairbright]

I think that's the source of the problem then. He has never been honest about how threatening this relationship was and so you've been trying to rebuild a relationship on a lie. The couples counselling sounds a waste of time and money if there was no conclusion that this was indeed a dangerous friendship.

I think if had just been that, he would have admitted to it. You'd have to be spectacularly obtuse not to see why this relationship had so many warning klaxonx going off and why its existence was so threatening and upsetting to you. Just as a similar friendship of yours would have been to him.

But I have the feeling that he thought if he ever conceded that, the whole story might come out so it was better to lie and insist that you were paranoid about it.

I think that's the behaviour that has killed the marriage actually. Instead of owning up to an affair or at the least conceding that this was a potentially dangerous friendship, he has chosen to deny the undeniable. You say he will blame you for it all too.

There's no point confronting him about this new lie then, because you'd have to reveal how you knew about it and he would punish you for snooping and turn his lies back on to you and blame you for it, claiming he had no choice but to lie as you are so possessive and paranoid.

You can therefore very calmly state that in your view, you gave it your best shot but you've realised you still don't think that friendship was innocent, but that it has been his denial of it that has broken your trust and ended the marriage. You can also assert quite correctly that you are deeply unhappy and no longer trust him.

[bendaroo]

Thanks for your time beths.

Yes I get what you are saying and you're totally right. it's all been a lie this past few years.

But if I end it on the basis of your suggestion - that I'm deeply unhappy and don't trust him - then it's me it all falls back on. You know? That the explanation to kids, family, people I care about deeply, is about me, my not being 'happy'. But he's the ones who's pissed all over our marriage. I can't think straight for upset, anger, disappointment and worry over how this is going to go in the next few days/weeks.

[BethFairbright]

If you tell people who love you and know you, these circumstances, they won't think this a knee-jerk reaction over something harmless. No-one in their right mind would think this was a harmless friendship - including him, actually. If at any time he'd said "yes, you're right, this friendship crossed the line and I wouldn't have been happy if you told me you'd told some bloke who was in love with you, that you fancied him too" you could probably have moved on.

You might even have been able to move on if he'd admitted to a physical affair, as long as he was truthful and honest about it and had learnt something.

But this? He never acknowledged the problem and is still lying to you about her. You haven't been able to trust him with your emotional health, because his first response has always been to cover his own back and deny, rather than admit he was wrong.

Also, it doesn't matter what other people think about who is 'to blame' for the end of a marriage. Being unhappy and feeling unable to trust a partner are good enough reasons on their own.

Is it these 'other people' or is it you who's having trouble accepting that you have the right to end this?

[AThingInYourLife]

Well then confront him with it, without any apology for your justifiable snooping.

Tell him you now know for sure that he has been wasting your time for two years and that your marriage is a lie.

The fact that he would prefer you didn't know he was a liar doesn't justify his lies in the slightest.

[bendaroo]

Yes I know I'm having trouble accepting that I can end it. I do have my own identity- friends, a career- but I have been submerged in my kids and marriage for 12years. Everything I do is with those as the priority. So it's very hard to collapse the whole thing for me.

I have to confront him, I know I do and this helps enormously to think of the how and the words.

[EdsRedeemingQualities]

You're not happy because he's been lying to you. I think most people would see that as a justified reason for leaving a marriage.

You can tell them how much counselling you have had, that should make it easier for them to understand that you have tried everything.

[BethFairbright]

You said that shock tactics worked before.

It's just possible I guess that they would work this time too, but only you can say whether even if he admitted the truth this time, you think this relationship's still got legs. The damage he's caused might now be too great. I do think the truth must be a minimum now, even to consider staying.

If he finally admitted that this was an affair and was prepared to do all the usual things, would you stay with him and could you forgive?

If he admitted that this was an emotional affair and told you some things you didn't know, would you stay with him and could you forgive?

If you're sat at your laptop shaking your head and saying 'he would never admit this without proof' then that's an answer in itself isn't it?

[HappyHalloweenMotherFucker]

Your husband is a liar and he has killed any trust you had in him

that is perfectly valid grounds to split

Stop blaming yourself

Who cares what other people think, they aren't in a marriage with a disrespectful and conniving man.

[HappyHalloweenMotherFucker]

no, the prioer shock tactics did not work

because he is still lying and putting his marriage at risk by doing so...if he had nothing to hide, he wouldn't hide it

he simply laid low for a while, then carried on doing exactly what he pleased

i wouldn't call that a "success", I would call it a failure and would cut my losses now

he isn't ever going to be trustworthy if he doesn't get it by now

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

Look, you agreed to "keep things open and have no secrets". He has not done that.

if you look at this quiz he has already failed questions 3, 4, 5 and 6.

I think the only way you could go forward with him (and I am not saying you should) is for him to admit it is an inappropriate emotional affair friendship, and to promise never to have any contact with her again, then to see what it is that made him give himself permission to act in this way.

But since he has already failed on the no secrets thing, is that at all likely?

[bendaroo]

Yes I know I know you're all right.

And any worry I feel over what people will think is minimal and not holding me back in any way. It's more a niggle.

The real thing holding me back is cowardice and wishing it would all go away. I can't face the confrontation, the outrage about snooping, the turning it back on me, the accusation that I haven't loved him properly for years and how I must be delighted to have an excuse. The shouting that I'm trying to prevent him seeing the kids. Then crying, upset, neither of us sleeping, me trying to work and be jolly for kids. That is my stumbling block.

He will never admit he is at fault. Just that 'we are in a mess'. I haven the energy. But I will get there, I am sure of that. Maybe not till next week but I'll definitely get there, I know I will as I can't go on like this

[EdsRedeemingQualities]

I know you have to a degree been through it before with him, so you are probably a bit reluctant on the grounds that you know what he'll act like.

OTOH, he may just accept what you say without arguing this time. If he knows that the marriage is over, no ifs or buts, no chances, no ultimatums - just that it is over - he might just cut his losses and not bother.

I hope that it will not be as bad as you think it will. The stronger you are in your mind and the more resolute you are that it is over, no question, the easier it will be for you and probably the more he will feel it isn't worth him putting up a fight.

[BethFairbright]

Everyone's right of course. The shock tactics didn't 'work' because he still didn't admit to anything. All he did in reality was throw a few crumbs by going to counselling and appearing to take you more seriously.

Didn't the counsellor ever deal with this friendship? It seems crazy that you've been paying money for a year and there was still this massive elephant in the room. Your relationship was never going to recover when there was a denied affair.

You sound frightened of your husband OP. Are you?

[clam]

Him "going ballistic" over you checking his phone is a marvellous deflection on his part. Puts all the blame on you, and he can act all outraged and mask the real issue, which is him behaving badly.