Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

As a modern man I feel conned

428 replies

DadIsSad · 26/05/2012 15:08

Amongst the negative thoughts running around my head at the moment (maybe I should be starting this on the mental health forum?) I just thought I'd start by sharing this one. I think I'm a fairly enlightened modern man - I'm posting on here for a start - do lots of childcare including going with kids to things where I'm the only bloke, most of the cooking, and plenty of other stuff around the house. I don't pester DW to have sex, or do anything she doesn't want. Though I'm still in the dark ages because I told her I like the way she looks naked and the meals she cooks when she does something special (I do lots of boring cooking, she does the more interesting stuff - is that also a gender reversal?) - apparently this means I see her as a woman who cooks, cleans and looks good, which is so last century.

But I've read a few women's magazines - and yes I do appreciate that a lot of them bear little resemblance to real life - and followed a few threads on here. Apparently modern woman is supposed to enjoy sex just as much as men do, and not just see it as something they're obliged to do to satisfy their men (until they no longer feel that obligation) and to have children. I've been conned - at least if I was a cave man I might not care what she felt and just get on with it.

We've just had our last session of relate counselling (which is where her reaction to what I thought was a compliment came out). If you've followed my previous thread you might have seen me mention thinking about suggesting sexual counselling - well I bottled it. I could just envisage her reaction that there was nothing wrong with her, so why should she - she doesn't seem to think there's anything at all abnormal with having no interest at all in having sex with your partner, or that she's missing out on anything. For the record she has never had an orgasm, and I suspect she has never masturbated (I recently found the sex toy she bought at an Ann Summers party still wrapped in the original packaging hidden away in a cupboard).

Not really sure what anybody can say to help - just feeling rather depressed today that this is as good as it gets (unless I take a drastic decision - one described as an ultimatum when mentioned as a potential solution during our sessions). I would have carried on with Relate, but not convinced it was getting us anywhere new and DW wasn't keen on taking more time off work for it. Oh, and DW is still reluctant to admit how directly my depression is related to our lack of relationship - I tried to really spell it out to her how my moods changed depending on how it was going and how much I was thinking (generally negative thoughts) about it. But I'm still not sure she took it in, and whether she'll be surprised that I'm down again today - I'm sitting here over 24 hours later after her saying she would make more effort, and she's yet to even touch me, yet alone kiss me.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 26/05/2012 15:26

If sex was absent but there was plenty of affection and loving behaviour on both sides, it might be worth carrying on. If there's not only no sex but no affection either, if sex is far more important to one partner than the other, and if it doesn't look like anything is going to change, I think you call it a day on the grounds of a fairly fundamental incompatibility. Maybe she doesn't enjoy sex, never has and never will. Maybe it's just you she doesn't enjoy having sex with. I'm simplifying to make a point but the choices are either to condemn yourselves to a miserable existence as you wait to find out, or you give yourself (and her) a chance at happiness by going your separate ways.

HereIGo · 26/05/2012 15:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

misty0 · 26/05/2012 15:33

What a sad post OP. I havnt read your other thread/s but as a gut reaction i must agree with Cogito. Maybe it is time to call it a day?

It sounds like you have opened up to your wife.

You sound totally at odds at a basic level, sadly.

And miserable.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 26/05/2012 15:33

I agree.... the fact that you tick all the boxes cooking, cleaning, caring for children and whatever, whilst all very commendable, does not make a bit of difference to whether your partner finds you sexually alluring. You don't pass the 'good husband exam' and then.. pow... become irresistible.

TheCrackFox · 26/05/2012 15:34

Are either of you actually happy in this relationship? It might be that the relationship has run it's course?

Huansagain · 26/05/2012 15:38

This sounds like too much hard work, you'd be happier single.

poshbird1 · 26/05/2012 15:45

This reply has been withdrawn

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

RandomMess · 26/05/2012 15:46

Have you ever had the courage at a session to say how you feel, as in

"I feel rejected that you don't want any physical relationship with me"

That kind of thing?

To me it sounds as though you both make the required practical contribution to family life but the "us" a happy marriage needs doesn't not exist and both of you are too frightened/reluctant to deal with that issue.

ProcrastinateWildly · 26/05/2012 16:00

Do you actually like each other? It doesn't sound like it. Life's too short to spend being miserable.

beccabubbless · 26/05/2012 16:00

dont be afraid to tell women how you feel, we arnt psychic guys!!!
if she isnt a very sexual person then she probably isnt even aware that there is a problem? that might just be how she is, and as she doesnt know any different, shes happy? :/

ChangingWoman · 26/05/2012 16:05

It sounds sad and hurtful. Others will give better advice than I can on the relationship itself.

I just wanted to note your problem has less to do with "modern men" or "modern women" per se and everything to do with you and your wife as individuals.

It's so easy when relationships go wrong to fall into the "All men/woman are X" mindset. Your partner or ex was X. Why project this onto the rest of their gender?

I married and am divorcing a feckless alcoholic who ruined his health and screwed us financially. His behaviour says something about him and my toleration of it says something about me. In itself it says nothing about other men and women.

EggWhiteOmelette · 26/05/2012 16:11

The whole 'I've been conned thing' is a load of self-pitying twaddle and a lot of what you say sounds like its has come straight off the pages of some particularly crap bad chick lit BUT... you do sound very sad, and I do think your feelings need to be addressed and acknowledged by your wife.

If Relate hasnt worked, and she still doesnt really hear what you are saying about how you feel...has the relationship run its course?

I think a frank but calm discussion is needed pronto.

solidgoldbrass · 26/05/2012 16:40

Look, your options are a) accept that your wife is not going to have sex with you again and learn to live with celebacy or b) end the marriage. There is no button you can press to make her want sex with you.

There is the other option that most people won't countenance, of course. Have you discussed the possibility of remaining in the marriage while getting your sexual needs met outside it? Or is that something you would find unacceptable so you don't even want to mention it?

Actually, does she even want to remain married to you? What is she getting out of the marriage? What are you getting out of it? If it's broken, it's best put an end to.

likeatonneofbricks · 26/05/2012 16:53

unless you aer ancient and expect your sexual desires to disappear in couple of years, I think you should leave. You could insist on sexual counselling but if she genuinely isn't interested, then just leave. She sounds like a tough and inconsiderate character - telling at relate that you see her as a cooking cleaning woman when you do a lot of work and she's not sahm, plus ridiculous overdramatics over tha 'naked' compliment is manipulative 'smoke and mirrors' - she doesn't want to talk about real reasons, be it asexuality or not fancying you.

seeker · 26/05/2012 17:01

"Apparently modern woman is supposed to enjoy sex just as much as men do, and not just see it as something they're obliged to do to satisfy their men (until they no longer feel that obligation) and to have children" Really? Who'd-a-thought-it?

likeatonneofbricks · 26/05/2012 17:04

seeker he's being sarcastic with that, as his wife is obviously not interested in sex at all.

oikopolis · 26/05/2012 17:04

you're miserable because you allow fear of being honest (and therefore of rejection and possibly being alone) to rule your life.

you need to either get the cajones to TALK TO HER about this, with no holds barred, no bottling, no copping out

OR

you need to make an appt with a solicitor and start divorcing her.

i appreciate that you are afraid and depressed. but please understand. you are CHOOSING to be miserable because you are afraid of the alternative. you would rather be extremely unhappy than face the discomfort of dealing with this situation in a useful way.

and as such, you can't really blame your wife for how you feel.
YOU need to take responsibility here.

WitchOfEndor · 26/05/2012 17:15

I do appreciate that it must hurt if your wife has no interest in you sexually but you say that she doesn't orgasm during sex (and may never have orgasmed). Would you be interested in sex if you never orgasmed? I think whatever is affecting your wife's enjoyment of sex needs to be looked at separately but she may not want to do so. Many wives feel that if they had a bit more help around the house they would be less tired and more appreciated which may lead to better maritl relations shagging . But this is usually in women who enjoyed a healthy sex life before the reality of marriage and children hit home. I dont think any amount of housework, cooking etc will miraculously solve your issue.

DadIsSad · 26/05/2012 17:35

Thanks for all the replies. A lot of useful points to answer:

Cogito - I get that doing all the useful stuff isn't suddenly going to make me attractive to her. Just that this is one of the things she originally came up with as why she didn't want to have sex (I wasn't doing enough). I am trying hard to do more now, and address some of the things which irritate her - though it's not as if I was ever a complete slacker.
poshbird - I thought we had a good sex life when we first got together - I'm sure we had sex as often as I wanted, and pretty much every night we had together (we originally had a long distance relationship). She seems to think different though...
RandomMess - I'm sure I've said something pretty much like that several times. Was crying during the session yesterday as I described how I don't feel attractive because I don't feel that she finds me attractive.
ProcrastinateWildly - strangely enough, apart from this issue we get on really well, make great platonic friends.
EggWhiteOmelette (and others with similar comments) - it is a load of twaddle isn't it? Just a stream of what's going through my head - I admit that I suffer from depression and am currently on medication (not sure how much good it's doing)

more to come DW has come home, time to log off...

OP posts:
poshbird1 · 26/05/2012 18:18

This reply has been withdrawn

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

BizzieLizzy · 26/05/2012 18:26

It's got nothing to do with being male or female or men's and women's roles.

I'm a woman and I can identify with you - being in a loveless, sexless relationship destroys your self esteem.

You need to get out of this one; forget about whether it's fair or not, or who's fault it is. It's failing and is damaging you. You might stand a chance if your wife wanted to meet you halfway but she doesn't.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 26/05/2012 18:40

"this is one of the things she originally came up with as why she didn't want to have sex"

If an objection is raised, handled and then a new objection is raised... it's a goal-post shifting exercise. An excuse. For some reason, she doesn't want you as a sexual partner and all of these things about helping around the house or being offended about the naked comment are just hiding the real problem. And the real problem, I suspect, is that she wants to end the relationship but something... money, duty, children, appearances... is holding her back.

swallowedAfly · 26/05/2012 18:43

your problem is with your wife not woman kind conning you ffs. i found that really offensive.

incidentally we all post on here too does that make us 'enlightened'? Hmm

swallowedAfly · 26/05/2012 18:45

i do recall your last thread actually.

my advice would be if you are not happy leave. that's about all the advice can be now isn't it? she's happy as she is and has no interest in changing it - either you can put up with that or you can't and if you can't then you need to get out before you get any more bitter and twisted about women.

amillionyears · 26/05/2012 18:54

At what moment in time did the sex end, if you dont mind me asking.Did it stop for instance when you got married.