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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Have a go at Dadslib.... ...pillock!

361 replies

dadslib · 02/12/2003 13:04

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motherinferior · 02/12/2003 13:09

DL, I will think. I do sympathise. It sounds v tough. Do you know what she feels, though?

Twinkie · 02/12/2003 13:12

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motherinferior · 02/12/2003 13:13

Oh, and I have such a hopeless relationship track record I wouldn't listen to me

Original poster
dadslib · 02/12/2003 13:15

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Original poster
dadslib · 02/12/2003 13:16

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WSM · 02/12/2003 13:16

Why did you give this thread that title ? It is a very unkind title. I don't really know what advice to give, apart from maybe give counselling another go. If it 'sort of' worked before then there is a chance that it may again.

zebra · 02/12/2003 13:17

Brave Chap you are, Dadslib.
How much less would you actually see your DS?
Could you & your DW agree to make a split as painless as possible for your DS, always putting his feelings before yours and hers?
Sex life plummeting is par for the course, post-children. Not always best way to judge future prospects of a relationship.
Do you 2 beat each other up in front of your DS? Very bad example for him, if so.

fio2 · 02/12/2003 13:19

poor you dadslib. I can honestly say the first year of both of my kids lives were the hardest on my and dh's relationship. Its bloody hard work when you are getting no sleep and have no social life anymore. You are right, you do have to work at things. I wouldnt just leave if I was you. How about a trial seperation to see how you both feel? It looks like you have tried most other things

simplesimon · 02/12/2003 13:19

Believe it or not DL I wish I could help.

norma · 02/12/2003 13:19

Dadslib,
Do you know 'why' you don't love her so much, or often don't fancy her?
It would be tragic to throw away your family and benefits of such a long shared history if there were any way of getting to the root of the problem and starting to solve it.
I speak as someone who sees the pain and heartache of my own Dh, who left his wife and family for me. He says that leaving her was the best thing he ever did as ALL love and respect had gone long before I arrived on the scene. But the distress of his daughters and him is sometimes unbearable.

M2T · 02/12/2003 13:21

DL - I think alot of your feelings are quite normal after a baby comes along. Especially the "not doing it" very often.

DH and I fall out at least once a week. We've just decided that that is the nature of our relationship. We used to be voilent toward eachother, but since my PND has subsided that has stopped thankfully!
If you went ot RELATE before then why can't you try it again??

Never stay together just for the sake of your child. BUT DO try everything you can to save your relationship before throwing in the towel. Don't you find that you have spells that are worse than others?

DH and I went through a terrible time for about 6mths. I despised him (or thought I did)... he told me he didn't love me, I slapped him, I even found myself starting to fancy someone else!!!! However, I soon realised that it was a bit od rebellion on my part at settling down. Yeah yeah yeah it's supposed to be the bloke that has committment issues....

I stopped looking for the greener grass and stopped treating DH like he was something I just put up with as he was hadny to have around!

I'm afraid I talk to DH the way your wife talks to you... dunno if its a teacher thing..... more of a mother thing.

I think its time you bit the bullet and told her everything and stop giving in for an easy life. At the end of the day IS it making your life easier?? Or hers??? No it isn't... it is adding more resentmeny and hostility to your relationship.

HTH,,,, its a bit rambling! FWIW I don't think by the sound of it you ahve reached the point in your relationship where you should leave.

WSM · 02/12/2003 13:21

But ultimately both partners hearts must be in counselling for it to work. My DH went through years of Relate with his first wife but ultimately he realised that the sessions could only be a success if he really wanted to stay in the marriage, he didn't. There is a part of him that will always regret that the seperation of the marriage also meant that he did not have his 2 boys 24/7 (we have them 50/50), but he realises that if the marital relationship had continued it would have been detrimental to his children. It really is a rock and a hard place situation and a question to which only you know the answer.

Original poster
dadslib · 02/12/2003 13:22

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lilibet · 02/12/2003 13:23

Very difficult Dadslib, loads of sympathy.
Many of us on here have lived in situtions where we have wondered 'do I stay or go'. I think that you need to talk to dw and maybe think about having another shot at relate. Is she happy with her life the way it is, and how does she react to your violent temper? What will you do if you one day cannot control yourself andd go too far? Not that slapping and pushing isn't too far but one day something may happen and it might not stop at that. Perhaps counselling on your own for your own problems?
My big deciding factor on whether or not to leave my ex was the 'children learn what they live' theory and I never wanted any of my children to think that what they saw at home was a normal relationship and the sort of thing that they should expect and the way that they should behave when they are adults and in a relationship with someone. I know that your son isn't old enough yet to copy his parents behaviour and accept that it is the norm, but if your relationship continues in the vein that is what he will grow up knowing
You are presuming what will happen with ds if you leave, you don't know.

sorry must cut this short - at work!!

fio2 · 02/12/2003 13:23

M2T my dh says I treat him like a child too!...well if he will insist on acting like one

miranda2 · 02/12/2003 13:23

Poor all of you. The only thing I can think of is to say try the counselling again - you say it helped last time, so it may do again. Also, the fact that for so long in your relationship you were depressed maeans it might be worth giving it longer now you are on the medication to try and rediscover teh relationship? Its impressive that you';ve both stuck with it for so long, I'd guess there may well be something good there that it might be worth mining for and polishing up. Will pray...

WSM · 02/12/2003 13:24

P.S. Twinkie, I think that comment was a little harsh given that DL has just spoken about something so personal.

3GirlsMum · 02/12/2003 13:33

Dadslib sorry to hear about your problem. In my honest opinion far better to get out now than to carry on for years being unhappy with the continous arguing. My parents did it when I was a child and it left me very insecure and I was forever paranoid they would break up anyway. In hindsight I wish they had done it when I was a lot younger as to be honest your DS wont be so affected at this age.

However saying that it sounds as though you DW has issues that she needs to deal with. Her threatening to leave is probably just an act to provoke you and to get you to show how much you love her and want her to stay, insecurity issues maybe steming from her childhood of previous relationships.

Its not acceptable for either of you to be hitting each other as invariably these hits will get harder and harder till one day you will really do something you will regret. Stop it now, take a step away from her when she upsets you or leave the room/house in order to calm down.

Has your DW's behaviour got worse since the birth of your child or has it always been this bad, and also has your behaviour worsened as well? If you really think there is something worse saving then go and see relate and take any help thats offered.

If after that the relationship continues the same you know that you have tried. Good luck.

Janstar · 02/12/2003 13:37

Hi dadslib. I think things are not bad enough for you to give up yet. It sounds as if you could mend the relationship, but it will take a lot of effort from both of you.

I would definitely go back to Relate, as a first step.

Does your dw know how much it upsets you when she speaks to you like one of the kids? Maybe it is a habit she hardly notices any more, and needs you to take some time to really get across to her how much damage this is doing.

Also the slapping and pushing each other - I would make it a top priority to agree that this habit must stop. Every time one of you does this you are damaging your relationship. Each little push or slap is going to kill a little of your love for each other.

If in the end it is hopeless, and you do give up, you need to feel that first you tried as hard as you could, and that it really was impossible, if you can't do this for yourselves, do it for ds.

dsw · 02/12/2003 13:37

We all seem so full of advice for the female mumsnetters - but when it comes to you we are all a bit stumped.
I think you should speak to DW and try and discuss where things have wrong to see if you can get them back on track, but you have both got to stop hitting each other. Things do change when you have a child - that little person becomes your main focus and you do lose sight of other things that are just as important. You should take time out to be with each other - maybe go for dinner, or a few drinks and see if you can make friends - before you really work out what it is you both want.
I am not really very good at giving advice, but am really sorry you feel like you are in this "rut". I hope all works out for you - whatever happens. Keep us posted - we are a nosy lot really!! Take Care. (())Big Hugs

Original poster
dadslib · 02/12/2003 14:00

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lazyeye · 02/12/2003 14:04

Hi Dadslib - brave man I think for admitting all this.

I can only echo what some others have said. I think, without a doubt, the early years with children are a very big strain (as well as a joy). We have 2 under 3 with another on the way. We often fight, seldom do 'it' and have fallen into the trap of not appreciating each other. It is so, so difficult to take a step back and remember what it is attracted you in the first place. I think all my friends with young children have felt like this at some point. The trick is working out if this feeling is here for good or just a prolonged bout of ennui. I don't know how you find this out. Try very hard to talk honestly, honestly, honestly? Set yourselves a time limit - 6mths down the line, try hard & then see if you still feel the same??

Don't leave just now. Sounds like you still have something to fight for & best of luck.

dsw · 02/12/2003 14:06

DL - At least you seem to be making an effort to save your relationship - by attending these classes and things - is DW putting in as much effort, she obviously has some anger that needs dealing with aswell - like the others have already said - you should try some counselling if everything else has failed.

Wish i could be more helpful....

ThomCat · 02/12/2003 14:19

Dadslib - I don't have anything new to add but wanted to echo admiration for being so open and honest and for doing so much already to make things better for your home life. I'm so sorry you're unhappy, that everyone at the dadslib household is. All I can say to you is this - my parents fought and fought and I don't ever remember seeing any affection between them and knew, from an early age, this wasn't how it was supposed to be. Nothing ever happened to scar me for life, there was no violence or anything like that - they just weren't right for each other. When they divorced, when I was 16, it was the best thing for us all. To live in a house where an unhappy atmosphere lingers around under the aroma of the Sunday gravy wasn't nice. My dad is a a much happier man now as is my mum. I have a wonderful, amazing stepfather who I adore and a great stepbrother and sister. My dad has become one of my best friends and I never thought that would be possible - I hated him when we all lived together - he was always so anngry. What I'm saying is if you really can't make the home happy, you and your wife, then perhaps you'd be more use as a father living seperatley from his mother (sorry don't mean that in the way it may come across). i hope you know what I mean, i'm not putting you down in any way or anything, just telling you how it was for me. Good luck Dadslib, I really feel for you and hope it all works out for the best. Love Thomcat xx

Blu · 02/12/2003 14:51

oh, Dadslib, poor you, people had picked up that you were having a bad time with DW, I think, so good to get your thoughts clearly.
A ragbag of responses that occurred to me: Do you ever talk about your relationship away from the context of a row...i.e not in the aftermath, but out of a GOOD initiative, at a time when you are both feeling o.k with each other? Do you think your DW might be experiencing some depression? Is she back at work f/t? I was working f/t quickly after our DS was born, and our relationship has taken a big blow since then. I was much more 'up for it' before I went back to work, but the exhasution gets the better of both of us, and also, IME, women enjoy a sort of all-day-foreplay run up to sex, thinking about it, talking, casual touching during the washing up etc etc, all of which goes out the window in the baby-owning household. And did I read somewhere recently that the birth of a child and emergence of fatherly felings actually has a scientific dampening effect on men's libidos?

Some q's about hitting each other (and I do recognise a difference between a couple who take a wild mutual swing at each other in the heat of a row, and domestic violence which is used by one partner to control and destroy the other). Do you always lash out first or is it ever her? Does she hit you in retaliation or from her own feelings of frustration - or in self-defence? Do you know how she feels about these fights: is she frightened? (Not proud to admit it, but my DP and I have had the v v occasional mini-fisticuffs, as we are quite tempestuous beyond a certain point, but we're both equally ashamed, I'm not frightened of him, and have usually started it. If he did, I'd be very frightened, I think).

It seems a shame to be experiencing things so negatively now, when you have sought help for your depression and temper, and have had a good experience with Relate. Did you say recently that you were feeling v insecure about your job? How are you feeling about that? How is SHE feeling about that? You have referred in the past to your regret that you both need to work, and some pretty last-century (or the one before) stuff about women in the job market...is this preying on your mind as you approach job insecurity?
It would be very very sad to see things dissolve at this point....Do any of these q's suggest a jumping off point for a new line of communication with yourself and/or your DW?

I do wish you well in this.