Have a go at Dadslib.... ...pillock!

[dadslib]

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Perhaps if you substitute rational for black and white!

I just think you are being very kind to yourself about the way you behave. If the way you communicate here is typical of the way you communicate at home I am not surprised that you have heated arguments. What I am surprised at is that you end up thumping your wife. That is a big no, no as far as I am concerned. You are a grown up, you should be able to control yourself.

Of course, you have absolved yourself of any need to control yourself, because you see violence as being part of life - i.e realistic. I do not. I have never witnessed violence in a domestic setting nor would I think it was in any way normal, usual, realistic, typical etc to do so.

The reason for focussing on the violence thing, and not the relationship thing, is that until you accept that you must and need to control yourself then you will not make any relationship work. Very few woman will stay in an abusive relationship in the long term. Just see the threads here to see how it destroys lives.

Please, don't let your young child's life be blighted by this behaviour. Give him the best start in life that you can. He deserves much much more than this!

I didn't pick up anywhere here that Dadslib thumped his wife. I picked up that in the heat of another massive row he has been know to push her and unfortunatly slap her too. I also picked up that he's not proud of this and feels shit about it and is trying to do something about it. He's not condoned his slapping and pushing and I think we should ease up a bit with talk like carting him off to prison. Please girls lets try and be supportive. None of us like the fact that he gets aggressive with his wife when in an argument with her but lets try and help him, can't we? I think perhaps if there isn't a positive side to your post it may be better not to post at all?? Freedom of speech and all that I know and if we were having a debate about domestic violence then fair play, but this isn't about that, it's about supporting Dadslib at his request. He came on here asking for help and has been honest in saying that he has been known to push and slap her. I'd hate to see this turn into a lets all beat dadslib up verbablly thread. Peace and love - Thomcat

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No stressy head you put it just as well, just differently.

jmg - I dodn't think dadslib has absolved himself becasue he sees it as part of life - I REALLY don't think that's what he has said / is saying. What he feels (I think), and I agree, is that sometimes when people are angry and have had months / years of rows that get more and more heated, SOMETIMES that person gets so frustrated they just want to lash out, not beat their wife to a pulp, just push her in anger and frustraion. I believe there is a difference. However I AM NOT CONDONING THIS IN ANY WAY.

but dadslib - if you hit out and are aggressive it's a massive turn off isn't it iykwim. Why would she want to sleep with you and have cosy chats when she's still so anngry that you raised your hand at her in anger? That will not be easily forgiven. Show you can control yourself and be nicer and calmer and hopefully everyhting else will follow?????

I have to leave now - not deserting you - will be back tomorrow morning.

Be calm, be strong. Good luck - xx

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DL: no, I don't think that violence alone is the problem in your marriage, or the only important thing. The other things are VERY important, but if your DW has identified it as a factor, and said that she is frightened when it happens, then it does seem one of the good starting points to be able to do something constructive - as you seem resolved to do.

Aloha made a really good point on another thread about people sometimes needing to think not "what do I need" but "what does the RELATIONSHIP need at this point" and even if you don't feel as if you are the one who has been out of order, you could look for an answer that begins "WE need to.." or "I need to..." rather than "she needs to..."

What other issues - as well as the fights - do YOU think are the most crucial to tackle together to save this relationship?

"No, honestly darling, I've been talking with other women, trying to save our marriage..."
Byeeee!

dl I knew you would get no end of hassle for the slapping stuff and not so much help for the marriage thing.

Oy! The 'hassle' starts about half way up Coddy, lots of advice about all the other aspects, and that's what we're trying to get back to.

I agree with one of the other posters that I think the treatment that DL is getting on this thread is completely different than if he were a woman - had to get that off my chest.

Always threatening to leave you might also be a defense mechanism, the fact that she has said it often and never done it would support that I think. Afterall everyone wants to be the dumper not the dumpee. And like another MNer said, she is probably just insecure and looking for reassurance and is not really cognisant of how debilitating (sp?) it can be on you.

The great thing that my dh has taught me is that even raising my voice is not acceptable - which he reminds me of as I start to get wound up. Having to speak at a normal pitch calms me and prevents our rows from getting out of hand. I would recommend it as a strategy, DL, for preventing escalation of disagreements and hopefully leading to calm discussion which acknowledges the pettiness of the argument in the first place. You might try it without swearing as well. Do you do any sport or workout? I think that this could help stabilise you as well.

Re doing 'it'. I think the first year with a baby is incredibly draining and distracting from that action. I was relieved when my interest finally came back. It is all relative. For all we know you might be getting it once a week and be disappointed because you want it every second day, when once a week with 9mth old IMO is not too bad.

Don't give up yet - it seems such a pity after such a long time together and having a baby together. But you need to make a new start that includes not throwing things in each others faces about the past etc. It does sound to me like you probably both believe you are always right - a tough one to resolve. My DH and I use humour and when I find out I am wrong about something I am always diligent about apologising and my dh apologises in his own way - which is not necessarily verbal.

HTH Good Luck!

PS I recently got shot down for a post I made on another thread and know how bad it feels so you have me sympathy on that. I think we can all have differing opinions without personally attacking each other, understanding that tone is difficult to convey over the internet.

But, hold on, isn't hitting other people just plain wrong? Whether you are a man or a woman?

Dadslib, my advice would be: do you love her? If yes, then maybe you can save things. If no, then perhaps you should think about moving on.

Nothing meant against you Blu - I dozed off int hte middle aof the thread as it seemed to be a competition inmoral outrage..

BTw Dadslib - My dh used to try the teacHer line with me

My response was that If he takes the money at the end of the month he puts up with it.

Actually I think he was just overawed by my powers of "debate"!!

Not sure my advice will be meaningful because the only person I've ever lived with who has slapped me is dd!

BUT, slapping/pushing in the heat of an argument is usually because you feel you can't communicate any other way. From what I've seen of you so far DL, you're pretty good at communicating in writing so perhaps you should try stepping away and writing down all your hurt and anger instead (and either giving it to her or binning it).

I know you'll be surprised to think so, but look back at the simplesimon thread. There was sone really good advice about communicating (from you too) that might help.

You are hugely opinionated and it's both charming and annoying which probably brings out the teacher in your dw - can you try and listen (not argue with) dw's opinions instead for an hour/evening/week? She'll appreciate it, I promise.

One of the things I have been very impressed with you on MN is your tenacity under fire. You went through an induction of fire here and, like M2T, you survived and became a better poster as a result. I've got faith you can do the same with your marriage if you want to enough.

DL you do seem to have been jumped on here a bit. I have been in a relationship where I was hit, yet if my DH of the time had shown remorse for his actions, as you have, it would certainly have gone some way towards making me think we had a future together still.

You have recognised the problems that you yourself are causing in the relationship and maybe they are having a direct result on the way your DW behaves towards you. Maybe you need to take this all one step at a time, how about an Anger Management course (for both of you if needed), certainly relate and also making time for yourselves again (get someone to babysit DS).

You have to both be prepared to put a lot into this relationship if you want it to work, which I believe you do otherwise you wouldnt have bothered posting about it. Next time your DW winds you up to the point of you wanting to hit MAKE yourself walk away, it may be harder to do to start with but you can do it. Good luck and take care. x

Have just spent ages reading the rest ot this thread and feel quite disturbed by it. At first I thought that the fighting was six of one and half a dozen of the other. But when you said, dadslib, that your wife says she is frightened of you, I saw it in a totally different light.
If she announced she was definately going for a divorce and wanted you out of the hpouse, how would you react? with violence? Does she feel trapped by fear in this marriage?
Or is it more a case of you having both got into a pattern of argument and violence that seems acceptable within your marriage, even though you are both aware that ist is destructive and would not be tolerated in any other social situation?
If it is the former then you are a bastard.
If it is the latter then you both need to get help to learn to break the cycle and respect eachother again.

Hey Dadslib, can I add my tuppence here? It's not so critical so don't worry! You say your dw can be provocative, let me tell you what provocative is! When I was going through pre-natal depression I was EXTREMELY provocative. I would call dh something rotten! I would hit him with my fists, I would scream at him, I would smash things, I would say horrible things about the baby inside me, I would tell him I hated him and that I was leaving him, etc, etc. At this time neither of us knew what was going on and at times I did get him very angry, angrier than I've ever seen him. But not once did he raise his hand to me. He pushed me a couple of times, mainly to stop me from hitting him, but he NEVER retaliated - and I sure gave him just cause to do so!

Of course people have come down heavy on you here. You are posting on a site that is mainly frequented by women - some of whom have been (or still are) victims of domestic abuse and they have listened to their partners tales of remorse, and they have been accused of being provocative. But you know, really, there is no excuse for violence. I had no excuse to be hitting dh, I had no excuse at all. Luckily this time things haven't been that bad, but I have still threatened to leave and I have still tested his patience beyond endurance. I love him all the more that he has stuck with me and seen this thing through to the end.

Please do go and see someone. Your local hospital will run anger management courses. If you find it difficult to deal with your wife, I am wondering how you deal with your son, after all toddlers can be just as provocative can't they? If you manage not to hit him, then surely you can apply the same strategies to your wife.

You are not a bad person, I can see that by the posts you write. But you do seem to be under a lot of stress and it is contributing to the way things are now. So don't let it spiral, don't wait until your dw leaves you taking your ds with her. Take action now. You've been saying that to SS, now is the time to take your own advice!

Best of luck.

That's a great post, Rhubarb

You know dadslib, I have really been thinking of you tonight. I have popped back on to the board with a worry about DS, but was just thinking about how passionatly you once defended your DW in her work as a teacher, and how proud you sounded about her. Just do a SWOT analysis about her as a teacher, and maybe the 'tone' she uses won't seem so bad!
Anyway, hope you didn't go home feeling all combatitive after your afternoon on mN, and that you and she had a good evening.......