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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I really want this to work.

186 replies

Marie229 · 01/03/2012 19:33

I'm going to start from the beginning. I started dating my boyfriend 3 years ago when he and his now ex-wife were separated. I know he went through a lot of trauma/hesitation deciding whether he made the right decision to separate/divorce because of his young son. I've always seen him as a very involved and sensitive father.

He ultimately decided that divorce was his best option. The way he described it to me was that he felt like he couldn't be himself in the relationship. He felt he married the wrong person. He was very unhappy and not-at-all in love. There was constant fighting and friction. He felt that his son would ultimately benefit from the split.

I know, believe me I know, that I shouldn't have gotten involved with him while he was still married to his ex wife. I regret it deeply (hind sight is truly 20/20). The only thing I can say is that I fell in love with this man. It was a love unlike anything I'd ever experienced (I'd only had one other boyfriend that lasted 8 years.) He was highly intelligent, very good looking, sensitive, receptive, and so many other things. What I adored most, though, was how we both viewed relationships. We both felt relationships should come first-- before parents, kids, jobs, passions, everything. We felt that the relationship was the foundation for everything else good. For example, if the husband/wife were happy and in love, then the children would be happy and well-adjusted. We had similar views on so many of life's questions. I felt it was a soul-to-soul meeting. I know that sounds silly, but I was truly head-over-heals for this guy. I ruined my reputation by dating him (because he wasn't yet divorced), and it didn't matter to me at all. I felt I needed to follow my heart.

Three years have now gone. I don't know what's going on anymore. I've only met his parents once, and I've only met his son once (about a month ago). I've asked (nearly begged) to be a bigger part of his life. At one point he told me, "What did you expect fooling around with a married man?" Another time he told me, "I can't introduce my son to some girlfriend." It feels like the only times he acknowledges my feelings is when I break up with him. When I try to talk to him, I feel like he gets angry. When he gets angry, I feel mistreated, and I break up with him. I've broken up with him numerous times. It's probably been three dozen times. Every time we break up, he apologizes, and I truly believe he means it. But then I get told that it's my fault that the relationship hasn't progressed because I break up with him every time there's a problem. Maybe I am being unrealistic. I can't tell anymore. I know that I don't feel heard, and that I feel uncared for and unloved when I try to bring something up. Maybe I should just understand that he'll react defensively. I've also reacted defensively.

Let me go into detail about the last few times we've argued....

I only see him on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays, and Sundays because he has his son on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays. I don't always get to see him on my days, though, because his son is involved in Boy Scouts, soccer, baseball, and church. He is an awesome dad and rarely misses anything. I also can only see him until about 7 or 7:30 at night S-TH because he gets up at 3:30 AM to work out for two hours before work. Well, I look forward to Friday evenings with him because he stays a little longer. He doesn't stay that much longer, though, because he likes to go grocery shopping Saturday mornings around 6am before anyone gets there. OK, so this particular Friday evening, he decided to skip his son's soccer practice. Our relationship had really been suffering, so he felt we needed the extra time together. It made me feel like he was really making an effort for us, but I felt badly about him missing soccer practice. This was only the second time in three years that he missed a soccer practice, and he has never missed a soccer game. I made stuffed chicken and had wine, and we were really having a nice time together talking and connecting. At about 6:00, his ex-wife texted him telling him he was an awful father for choosing his girlfriend over his son (she used a lot of curse words and name calling, too.) He read the text to me and sat down on the couch. I could tell he was questioning whether there was truth in the text. He asked me if he was a bad father, and I told him that he wasn't. The whole mood of our evening shifted from that point on. I felt guilty that he missed soccer practice and because he was questioning whether he was a good dad. He completely disconnected from me, so we just started watching TV together. He calls his son every night at 8PM to tell him goodnight. Every night, he can't get a hold of his ex-wife. Sometimes, I think she does it on purpose to tick him off, and sometimes I think she's just really scatter-brained. Anyway, he gets furious every Friday night at 8 when he can't get a hold of his son. This particular Friday night, he was pacing the floor, criticizing his ex, and redialing about every 30 seconds. This happens every Friday night. I can tell you that leading up to 8 PM, I start to feel sick because I'm dreading the goodnight call. I don't know if his ex is going to answer and they're going to start yelling at each other, or if she's not going to answer, or if he's going to be disappointed when his son only wants to talk for a few minutes. Also, he gets angry because his ex and their son are usually always out, and he feels they should be at home getting ready for bed at 8PM. So, on this Friday night, after he finally did get to talk to his son, I calmly suggested that he stop the 8pm goodnight calls. He looked offended. I went on to explain how it always seems like a disappointment to him. He's either getting angry at his ex or angry because his son isn't at home in bed. I also explained how it's not really a bonding experience since his son is always ready to get off the phone after a couple minutes. I told him how it makes me feel like our time together is ruined and how much I look forward to our Friday nights. Well, you would have thought I slapped him in the face. He was furious with me. He felt I wanted to limit his time with his son. He was offended that I implied that I was the only one who looked forward to our Friday nights. I started crying. He stormed out of my house angry. He hates when I cry. He told me in the past that my crying is a form of manipulation. I broke up with him the next morning because I felt so hurt and uncared for. I told him how his anger and bad moods are affecting our lives, and how I don't want to live the rest of my life in his misery. He emailed me and texted all of these wonderful insights and promises, and we got back together after two weeks apart.

The first night we're back together is another Friday night. We talk and laugh and connect. I feel like everything is going to work out after two weeks apart. We make love. He gets up to leave immediately after. I'm hurt, and he asks why I'm hurt. I tell him that I don't want him to leave. I ask him to stay. He tells me he never expected to make love our first night back together, and he didn't plan on staying. He tells me he's confused by why I wanted to have sex in the first place. He leaves. I'm angry because we've had this same situation a number of times in the past, and he knows I'm hurt by it. The next morning I tell him I was hurt. He's defensive. He points out to me again that he had no intention of staying. He doesn't want to be out that late because he gets up early to go grocery shopping. He points out that I never stay at his house. He points out that I like to sleep in until 8, and he likes to get up at 5. All of these things are true. But I just feel like they're stretched. The reason I don't stay at his house is because I have a little dog, and it's not allowed at his house. I can't abandon my dog over night all alone-- especially after being at work all day long. He says that's an excuse I have. And the sleeping in until 8 is not true. I usually get up at 7, but I would happily get up at 5 with him and make breakfast. He makes me feel unloved when he does this, and then he gets angry at me for feeling that way. He says I imply that he only uses me for sex. I know he doesn't use me for sex. I truly believe he doesn't. He just really is obsessive about the schedule he keeps. I just don't understand how he doesn't recognize that his behavior is hurtful to me. So, again, I got angry with him and told him to leave me alone. We got back together, this time, the following Sunday.

On Sunday, I went over to his house. We were lying on his couch holding each other talking about our lives. I expressed discontent with my current job (we have the same types of job). I told him how I've been thinking about going back to school. I told him about how I really search for meaning in our jobs. Before I said any of this, I told him that I didn't want to offend him because I knew he liked our jobs. We talked openly and nicely. I felt wonderful after our talk and time together. Later that night, he called me put me down for talking negatively about our jobs. He asked if I could ever respect him since I wanted a different career and he was satisfied in the one we had. He said he was insulted day after day by his ex because she didn't have any respect for our jobs, either. I reassured him repeatedly that this was my issue, and that I loved that he loved his job. He kept questioning me and questioning me. I kept apologizing. Finally, I just hung up on him. The next morning, he didn't call me like he usually does. Around lunch time, I texted him that I was sorry and tried to explain things again. That night, I called him and apologized again. He told me I was hypocrite. I didn't understand. He went on to explain how I had broken up with him for two weeks because of his anger and discontent with how his ex wife treats him. He told me I'm a hypocrite for telling him that he should accept things and be happy when I'm not happy in my own life. He just kept putting me down. So, I told him to leave me alone again. We tried texting last night, but he, again, told me I was a hypocrite and asked why the things I tell him don't apply to myself. I don't think I'm being a hypocrite, but maybe I am?

I'm so confused. I really love him and want this to work.

OP posts:
Leverette · 01/03/2012 19:42

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PfftTheMagicDraco · 01/03/2012 19:44

You both feel that relationships should come ahead of the children?

oikopolis · 01/03/2012 19:49

he sounds like a knob. you sound confused and insecure.

your bond formed at a time when he was under huge stress, and when he was still disengaging from his wife. you were compared favourably to her, so he gave you his best side, and that strengthened the feeling that your relationship was "special" and deep and all that jazz.

now you are the "main girl", so the favourable comparison no longer works out for you. you are now probably experiencing the same behaviour and attitude from him that caused his marriage to break down.

he understandably puts his son before you, but he also puts other quite bizarre things before you... including working out and grocery shopping... he sounds like a dirty arguer, petty, immature and prickly. he sounds awfully judgemental of you, telling you you were messing with a married man etc.

he must have been a nightmare to be married to. you are now seeing the "whole" man and not just the emotionally charged bits from the beginning of the relationship. this is the real him, this is what he thinks of you.

you say that you had the same views about relationships, that they come before anything else (which seems odd when there is a child involved! but anyway); well, he has clearly changed his mind about that. you two are not on the same page.

you might want to make it work, but you don't sound that important to him, tbh. if he wanted to put you first (barring his son), he would. if he wanted to deal with arguments in a compassionate way, he would. etc.

when someone shows you who they are, believe them.
get shut of him, you can do better.

chocoraisin · 01/03/2012 19:58

So let's put that in brief... he said a lot of things that made you think he was your soul-mate when you got involved, but he was still married. Presumably he must have said all kinds of similar things to his ex-wife before they married and had a child together that led her to believe that they were going to be life partners too. When he stopped getting what he wanted from that situation he found someone else... and that was you.

I think you know really that the great big giant red flag was (and I do offer my apologies for being blunt) him leaving his wife and child so that he could be with his new 'soul-mate'. That is, by any reckoning, an astonishingly selfish thing to do. So that rest of his frankly, astonishingly selfish behaviour... shouldn't really be a surprise? I'm not going to dress it up because I can see you really, really want to still be in love with him. But he makes you feel like crap, right?

Sounds to me like he is good at saying the right thing to the right person when he wants something, but is clearly not good at doing the right thing when he's expected to follow through.

I'd cut your losses really. After all, he's not treating you as special or different... so if you persevere against all the odds to have a future with him, you might just find yourself as his next XP with a little DC who you have to chivvy into daily 8pm phonecalls no matter what. Does that life sound appealing to you?

izzyizin · 01/03/2012 20:00

O lucky you - you've got a dog! Take your canine pal walkies regularly until you meet a loving and caring fellow dog owner who'll make you their first choice instead of second rate and second best.

The twat you're mooning over doesn't give a shit about you. He's a selfish and self-entitled manipulator who will always make you doubt yourself, always make you feel as if you're not 'good enough'.

Happily your 'relationship' with this twat would currently seem to be in the 'off' position and you are truly, honestly, really best advised to keep it that way.

You may think you 'really love' him, honey, but, as sure as eggs is eggs, he doesn't love you.

ImperialBlether · 01/03/2012 20:05

Oh god, OP, you are too close to the situation to see it clearly, but this man is AWFUL!!! How can you bear it?

It's not just that he's not into you, he puts himself first at every opportunity. He's not thinking of his son when he left home, he doesn't think of his son when he phones - it's just a battle between him and his ex and he is determined to win.

And anyhow - the man's a lunatic! He gets up at 3.30 am to exercise? He goes grocery shopping at 6 am on a Saturday, when he could be in bed with you? He's barmy, seriously.

ImperialBlether · 01/03/2012 20:05

He didn't think of his son when he left home, I mean.

Busybusybust · 01/03/2012 20:29

I didn't even get to the end. OP - he really just doesn't love you. Dump him and find a man who does.

He is treating you appallingly and you keep going back for more. I think all you are to him is easy sex. 3 years you have wasted on this tosser!

You need to find someone who is worthy of your love.

suburbophobe · 01/03/2012 20:33

told him how I've been thinking about going back to school. I told him about how I really search for meaning in our jobs. Before I said any of this, I told him that I didn't want to offend him because I knew he liked our jobs. We talked openly and nicely. I felt wonderful after our talk and time together. Later that night, he called meput me down for talking negatively about our jobs. He asked if I could ever respect him since I wanted a different career and he was satisfied in the one we had.

Why on earth would he put you down for wanting to change careers and take personal offence because he happens to be in the same type of job as you?? He should be encouraging you to follow your dreams!

I kept apologizing. Finally, I just hung up on him. The next morning, he didn't call me like he usually does.

He sounds like a control freak (also in the strict timing of everything in his life).

I think you deserve better, he's always going to make you suffer and bend over backwards to his tune.

Tell him to take a permanent hike out of your life and get thee back to school! Grin

SorryMyLollipop · 01/03/2012 20:34

I don't understand. Why can't he stay at yours and still get up early to work out/go food shopping? Why would he not want to spend a night cuddling with you?

It sounds like a lonely existence for you and it sounds like he is using you. Time to move on.

Portofino · 01/03/2012 20:35

He sounds like a selfish knob. HTH.

CurrySpice · 01/03/2012 20:46

He can't stay later than 7pm at your house on a Friday night because he gets up at 5am on a Saturday to go to the supermarket....really? Am I the only one going hmmmmm?

He's not your soul mate OP. He's a selfish, self-absorbed twunt

And you are over-amalysing and over-thinking everything in a way that you would never have to with a soul mate. It sounds like such hard work

And what's with all the breaking up and getting back together...areyou 15?

Seriously, this isn't a relationship, it's a head fuck :(

AnyFucker · 01/03/2012 20:55

Speechless

Really, this bloke is a dick and you have some sort of Romeo and Juliet/love against the odds fetish

It will be the undoing of you

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza · 01/03/2012 21:01

"We both felt relationships should come first-- before parents, kids, jobs, passions, everything"

Even if this were a wise set of priorities (it isn't btw) he lied to you. Relationships don't come first for him. He comes first for him. Ahead of you, his son, his ex, his marriage, you name it.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza · 01/03/2012 21:03

Also how "separated" was he when you got together? Did they live in different houses, was the separation public?

Cos if not I'd bet you were the OW, possibly unwittingly.

If he'd really been separated how could your reputation be ruined by dating him?

Mumsyblouse · 01/03/2012 21:05

I have a really simple rule in relationships where no-one is committed (by marriage or children): keep going if it's working, get out if it is not. This is not working. Why would you want to live like this? (and he is not really much of a catch, what with his rigid adherence to a very dull schedule).

As for relationships first, everything else second, now you are finding out the hard way what happens if you prioritise some type of romantic idealised relationship over the actual reality of it, or other people.

AnyFucker · 01/03/2012 21:09

Relationships come first before everything ...believing that is quite simply a recipe for allowing yourself to get used by a selfish and manipulative fuckwit

Rindercella · 01/03/2012 21:12

Why do you really want this non relationship to work OP? I don't see that you get anything out of it other than stress during the very few hours (Curry, you were not alone) that you spend with him each week.

You have no other ties. Get shot and go & walk your dog Wink

MooncupandPizza · 01/03/2012 21:23

That was exhausting to read and must be even more exhausting to live.

You have broken up with him 3 dozen times?! In 3 years? So once a month?

You need to get out my dear, it doesn't sound like a very nice relationship for either of you.

CurrySpice · 01/03/2012 21:23

I strongly suspect there is someone else in his life

oikopolis · 01/03/2012 21:32

+1 to the idea that he's seeing someone else

solidgoldbrass · 01/03/2012 21:40

He's a nob but you are just plain desperate. FFS! Bin him and get a life, and lose the idea that a couple-relationship is the Most Important Thing Ever. It's not. It's a luxury, not a necessity, and if you persist in thinking that couplehood is the only thing that matters, all you will ever attract is selfish bellends like him.

CurrySpice · 01/03/2012 21:44

After reading quite a few similar threads today I very much would like to hug my DP and thank my lucky stars I have a kind, supportive, straightforward, even-keeled man as him. I couldn't live at this pitch of emotion all the time, I really couldn't

swallowedAfly · 01/03/2012 21:49

he's an utter control freak. you're not allowed to cry or have emotions or opinions or needs or requests. if you do have those things? he gets angry and abandons you.

you're stuck in stalemate because you won't totally give in being a human being (re: not have emotions, needs, etc) and he won't treat you like a human being, so you get human he storms out, you realise you have to be a human being and end it, he comes back and you get back together till you need to be a human being and on and on ad infinitum.

and those 8'o'clock calls are all about control - he expects his ex to be there to take his call every evening, she understandably resists that and he gets angry at his not being in control.

the only cure is to end it and stay ended. this isn't going to change. you're right in knowing that you're a human being btw, we have to have feelings, needs, opinions etc. he doesn't see you as one though sadly but just another 'thing' in his life that should be what he wants and needs and ask nothing back and be given nothing back.

this is no way to live.

izzyizin · 01/03/2012 21:51

Your dp sounds worth his weight in gold Curry but 'kind, supportive, straightforward, even-keeled' men are not in short supply Marie - as you will rapidly discover if you put all thought of this manipulative twat behind you and get out there with your canine pal.