I really want this to work.

[Marie229]

I'm going to start from the beginning. I started dating my boyfriend 3 years ago when he and his now ex-wife were separated. I know he went through a lot of trauma/hesitation deciding whether he made the right decision to separate/divorce because of his young son. I've always seen him as a very involved and sensitive father.

He ultimately decided that divorce was his best option. The way he described it to me was that he felt like he couldn't be himself in the relationship. He felt he married the wrong person. He was very unhappy and not-at-all in love. There was constant fighting and friction. He felt that his son would ultimately benefit from the split.

I know, believe me I know, that I shouldn't have gotten involved with him while he was still married to his ex wife. I regret it deeply (hind sight is truly 20/20). The only thing I can say is that I fell in love with this man. It was a love unlike anything I'd ever experienced (I'd only had one other boyfriend that lasted 8 years.) He was highly intelligent, very good looking, sensitive, receptive, and so many other things. What I adored most, though, was how we both viewed relationships. We both felt relationships should come first-- before parents, kids, jobs, passions, everything. We felt that the relationship was the foundation for everything else good. For example, if the husband/wife were happy and in love, then the children would be happy and well-adjusted. We had similar views on so many of life's questions. I felt it was a soul-to-soul meeting. I know that sounds silly, but I was truly head-over-heals for this guy. I ruined my reputation by dating him (because he wasn't yet divorced), and it didn't matter to me at all. I felt I needed to follow my heart.

Three years have now gone. I don't know what's going on anymore. I've only met his parents once, and I've only met his son once (about a month ago). I've asked (nearly begged) to be a bigger part of his life. At one point he told me, "What did you expect fooling around with a married man?" Another time he told me, "I can't introduce my son to some girlfriend." It feels like the only times he acknowledges my feelings is when I break up with him. When I try to talk to him, I feel like he gets angry. When he gets angry, I feel mistreated, and I break up with him. I've broken up with him numerous times. It's probably been three dozen times. Every time we break up, he apologizes, and I truly believe he means it. But then I get told that it's my fault that the relationship hasn't progressed because I break up with him every time there's a problem. Maybe I am being unrealistic. I can't tell anymore. I know that I don't feel heard, and that I feel uncared for and unloved when I try to bring something up. Maybe I should just understand that he'll react defensively. I've also reacted defensively.

Let me go into detail about the last few times we've argued....

I only see him on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays, and Sundays because he has his son on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays. I don't always get to see him on my days, though, because his son is involved in Boy Scouts, soccer, baseball, and church. He is an awesome dad and rarely misses anything. I also can only see him until about 7 or 7:30 at night S-TH because he gets up at 3:30 AM to work out for two hours before work. Well, I look forward to Friday evenings with him because he stays a little longer. He doesn't stay that much longer, though, because he likes to go grocery shopping Saturday mornings around 6am before anyone gets there. OK, so this particular Friday evening, he decided to skip his son's soccer practice. Our relationship had really been suffering, so he felt we needed the extra time together. It made me feel like he was really making an effort for us, but I felt badly about him missing soccer practice. This was only the second time in three years that he missed a soccer practice, and he has never missed a soccer game. I made stuffed chicken and had wine, and we were really having a nice time together talking and connecting. At about 6:00, his ex-wife texted him telling him he was an awful father for choosing his girlfriend over his son (she used a lot of curse words and name calling, too.) He read the text to me and sat down on the couch. I could tell he was questioning whether there was truth in the text. He asked me if he was a bad father, and I told him that he wasn't. The whole mood of our evening shifted from that point on. I felt guilty that he missed soccer practice and because he was questioning whether he was a good dad. He completely disconnected from me, so we just started watching TV together. He calls his son every night at 8PM to tell him goodnight. Every night, he can't get a hold of his ex-wife. Sometimes, I think she does it on purpose to tick him off, and sometimes I think she's just really scatter-brained. Anyway, he gets furious every Friday night at 8 when he can't get a hold of his son. This particular Friday night, he was pacing the floor, criticizing his ex, and redialing about every 30 seconds. This happens every Friday night. I can tell you that leading up to 8 PM, I start to feel sick because I'm dreading the goodnight call. I don't know if his ex is going to answer and they're going to start yelling at each other, or if she's not going to answer, or if he's going to be disappointed when his son only wants to talk for a few minutes. Also, he gets angry because his ex and their son are usually always out, and he feels they should be at home getting ready for bed at 8PM. So, on this Friday night, after he finally did get to talk to his son, I calmly suggested that he stop the 8pm goodnight calls. He looked offended. I went on to explain how it always seems like a disappointment to him. He's either getting angry at his ex or angry because his son isn't at home in bed. I also explained how it's not really a bonding experience since his son is always ready to get off the phone after a couple minutes. I told him how it makes me feel like our time together is ruined and how much I look forward to our Friday nights. Well, you would have thought I slapped him in the face. He was furious with me. He felt I wanted to limit his time with his son. He was offended that I implied that I was the only one who looked forward to our Friday nights. I started crying. He stormed out of my house angry. He hates when I cry. He told me in the past that my crying is a form of manipulation. I broke up with him the next morning because I felt so hurt and uncared for. I told him how his anger and bad moods are affecting our lives, and how I don't want to live the rest of my life in his misery. He emailed me and texted all of these wonderful insights and promises, and we got back together after two weeks apart.

The first night we're back together is another Friday night. We talk and laugh and connect. I feel like everything is going to work out after two weeks apart. We make love. He gets up to leave immediately after. I'm hurt, and he asks why I'm hurt. I tell him that I don't want him to leave. I ask him to stay. He tells me he never expected to make love our first night back together, and he didn't plan on staying. He tells me he's confused by why I wanted to have sex in the first place. He leaves. I'm angry because we've had this same situation a number of times in the past, and he knows I'm hurt by it. The next morning I tell him I was hurt. He's defensive. He points out to me again that he had no intention of staying. He doesn't want to be out that late because he gets up early to go grocery shopping. He points out that I never stay at his house. He points out that I like to sleep in until 8, and he likes to get up at 5. All of these things are true. But I just feel like they're stretched. The reason I don't stay at his house is because I have a little dog, and it's not allowed at his house. I can't abandon my dog over night all alone-- especially after being at work all day long. He says that's an excuse I have. And the sleeping in until 8 is not true. I usually get up at 7, but I would happily get up at 5 with him and make breakfast. He makes me feel unloved when he does this, and then he gets angry at me for feeling that way. He says I imply that he only uses me for sex. I know he doesn't use me for sex. I truly believe he doesn't. He just really is obsessive about the schedule he keeps. I just don't understand how he doesn't recognize that his behavior is hurtful to me. So, again, I got angry with him and told him to leave me alone. We got back together, this time, the following Sunday.

On Sunday, I went over to his house. We were lying on his couch holding each other talking about our lives. I expressed discontent with my current job (we have the same types of job). I told him how I've been thinking about going back to school. I told him about how I really search for meaning in our jobs. Before I said any of this, I told him that I didn't want to offend him because I knew he liked our jobs. We talked openly and nicely. I felt wonderful after our talk and time together. Later that night, he called me put me down for talking negatively about our jobs. He asked if I could ever respect him since I wanted a different career and he was satisfied in the one we had. He said he was insulted day after day by his ex because she didn't have any respect for our jobs, either. I reassured him repeatedly that this was my issue, and that I loved that he loved his job. He kept questioning me and questioning me. I kept apologizing. Finally, I just hung up on him. The next morning, he didn't call me like he usually does. Around lunch time, I texted him that I was sorry and tried to explain things again. That night, I called him and apologized again. He told me I was hypocrite. I didn't understand. He went on to explain how I had broken up with him for two weeks because of his anger and discontent with how his ex wife treats him. He told me I'm a hypocrite for telling him that he should accept things and be happy when I'm not happy in my own life. He just kept putting me down. So, I told him to leave me alone again. We tried texting last night, but he, again, told me I was a hypocrite and asked why the things I tell him don't apply to myself. I don't think I'm being a hypocrite, but maybe I am?

I'm so confused. I really love him and want this to work.

garlicbutter, I'm glad you caught share-itis....I hadn't heard that explanation of PD before. Yes, it made sense.

See, I've always understood my mother to only see "black" or "white." If she felt that someone did something to hurt her, she would turn against them. As a child, any slight misbehavior would result in me being deemed "the worst regret of her life." I was a devil-child, and she'd put me on the prayer list at our church. She told me I should have been aborted, that I was a brat, a bitch, ungrateful, etc. She said I had no respect for her-- that she sacrificed so much for me. And then, hours later, it would be time for dinner, and she treated me as if nothing had happened. I was her angel-child again, the best thing that ever happened to her. She'd tell me that all she ever wanted in life was a little girl to love. It was complete and utter madness.

My bf is nothing like that. I think that's why I never identified the parallel.

Here's something I've been struggling with, but I think maybe you've touched on it, garlic. I'm having a hard time accepting that I can grow and become more whole and work on overcoming emotional issues from my childhood. Yet, it's not likely that my bf can change and grow and become more empathetic and understanding in relationships. Oikopolis explained it to me in a post a while ago, and it made sense. But, again, how can I have such high hopes for myself but such low hopes for my bf? I never saw him as having a PD, but I do see him as having a very rigid personality, so maybe that explains it? I can't help (please forgive me) but to feel that it is somewhat contradictory to believe that I can improve, but that there's no hope for my bf. Do you see the paradox I'm experiencing? I realize I'm being difficult. I just need to understand this better. I'm going to go back and read some of your posts. Thanks again, garlic.

yes but you can only improve by your own self awareness, desire for growth and will to work at it. he lacks that. it's not a journey that you can take for someone or drag them along.

i also think there are people who are happy being dysfunctional because it gets them what they want iyswim, they don't feel they are suffering and have no desire to change, instead they just want to change and control other people. they project their problems onto other people rather than own them.

Ah. Compassion, as SAF and Oiko have mentioned, is a more powerful thing than what your boyfriend demands (which is more like "indulgence") and more complex than what you may have understood when your therapist spoke about listening with love.

Compassion has all of its roots in empathy, then grows to strength and wisdom. When I hear someone ranting about how dreadful I am, I understand that their extreme reaction isn't about anything I've done or am - it's about them. Some aspect of the occasion has triggered a raging despair in them. It's not my duty to know what it is, and I'm powerless to help them with it. The best I can do for them is hear them out. I don't bother answering their points (unless I've done something wrong and need to apologise) and I certainly don't try to change their perceptions. I don't apologise for things that were not wrong. I never interrupt. When they are spent, I might offer them a cup of tea but that's the full extent of my indulgence.

I distance myself from people who rant or 'poke'. I don't need their problems in my life. Before therapy, I felt obliged to take criticism on board and try to correct any misapprehensions. I was compelled to explain myself. I was hurt by their accusations, and angry at their injustice. Now I realise their rants are not about me or, indeed, anything in the world beyond their own mind. I am always angry at injustice, but the ranter is not my judge or jury so I may ignore them.

Your boyfriend keeps pushing and poking you because he wants you to blow. This will feed his need to believe you are unstable, crazy and rejecting. He probably believes all women - or all the ones he could love - are thus. I suspect that, even if you'd never broken off with him at all, he would still insist you had. There's nothing you can do about that. The nightmare in his head is personal and only he can change it, if he wished. He very likely won't, though, because then he would have to take a proper look at it.

It's very very hard to observe the rant of a loved one without feeling wounded. My therapist taught me some tools; yours might have done too? I learned to take deep, slow breaths and to count before responding. Both of those really do help. She taught me to build an 'invisible shield' - mine's made of blue light, but you can make yours from anything you like, even furnish it if you wish. It shrinks and grows as needed, always comfortable and protective. People can see and hear you through your 'shield' but, safe inside, you're immune from harsh words and bad feelings. They bounce harmlessly off your shield! Sometimes I like to imagine they bounce right back at the speaker Later on, this therapist did 'cord cutting' with me to strengthen my detachment.

Have a look here: www.outofthefog.net/Disorders/NPD.html, with particular reference to this: www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/Baiting.html

I've cross-posted with a lot! Will catch up after dinner :)

izzy,

I must have misrepresented myself by the "I put myself through college and graduate school, and I bought my own house at 24" statement. I can see how I might have come across as somewhat gloating. My house is quite modest, actually, and I wouldn't describe my career as so affecting, either. What I meant to convey was that I worked hard to overcome a dysfunctional childhood. I thought I had freed myself and escaped with barely a scratch. I failed to recognize a number of deeper emotional wounds, however.

Regardless, I see what you mean about how I could apply the same sort of determination on my emotional development. I feel like I have made so much more progress on this forum than I have in years. I'm looking forward to exploring different therapeutic options. I'll look into your recommendation. It's true that my thoughts are driving me crazy. I've never tried meditation before.

i'm so sorry i'm so behind everyone. I take too long to read into what everyone says. i'm replying to things from the previous page. i'll catch up with you all this evening, as well! thank you for your quick replies and insights! this forum has been such a rewarding experiences for me......

Oikopolis,

Yes, I made a mistake saying I was "textbook." That's because until now (other than my 4 months of counseling) I've mainly attempted to gain insight by "sitting down and thinking carefully."

I bought Dancing With Wolves on Amazon this morning. I'll let you know about it....

I meant, Women Who Run With Wolves......

How ridiculous :-)

:) Glad you got the book. If it sucks, you can post it to me and I'll PayPal you , I need a new copy anyway.

BTW don't worry about not "keeping up". No-one here wants you to feel pressure to respond!! We just want to offer what we can.

About you changing vs. your bf changing.
I think you can change because your posts ooze empathy, insight, emotion and self-reproach.

I think your bf can't change because the way you describe him makes him seem extremely stunted and emotionally immature. He sounds v much like he lacks insight into himself and other human beings. He sounds really unusually selfish and self-obsessed, much like a child.

Someone who:

• Berates a loved one for crying
• Acts like you've slapped him when you offer advice or an opinion
• Does things to you over and over and over again despite you TELLING him they hurt you
• Is obsessed with his own bizarre schedules
• Would never DREAM of changing his bizarre schedule in order to spend more time with you
• (BUT berates YOU for not staying over at his, because of your little dog...)
• Was in a physically abusive r/s and then jumped into the next one without so much as a month's introspection
• Accuses you of stupid and/or untrue things just to bait you (8am wakeups, you not staying over with him etc)
• Puts you down even when you are very upset
• Judges you and name-calls you for getting involved with him (??!)
• Manufactures extremely ridiculous arguments (the job thing) and then berates you mercilessly to ensure you are an utter wreck about it
• Watches you take yourself off to counselling and doesn't lift a finger to do so himself
• Blatantly projects his issues with his ex-wife STRAIGHT onto you

... is not someone with the empathy or insight necessary to change.

You said yourself, he only listens to your feelings when you break up with him.

BUT, he punishes you mercilessly for doing the only thing that gets his attention???

Marie, I think you chose a man as volatile and unfairly demanding as your Mom. Yes, he is different to her... but I suspect he is also similar to her in many ways.

My own husband has never, ever, ever in our entire relationship EVER done ANY of these things to me.

Actually that is slightly inaccurate: my H once told me he hates it when I cry because he feels like he's not allowed to be upset with me if I cry. (I often cry when I've upset him, and he's told me, and I feel v guilty). Basically he was saying he felt manipulated by my crying.

I wrote him a long letter telling him that my crying is more about my terror that he won't love me anymore because i've made him angry. (this is all stuff from my childhood -- conditional love from parents etc.). it's involuntary, not something I do to hurt or control him.

From that time onwards, when I cry, he stops what he's saying and pulls me into his lap and holds me there while I cry and says, "don't forget I will always love you, even though i'm angry with you right now, that doesn't mean i don't love you".

then when i stop crying, he sits me back where i was before, and we keep talking about what's happened. and it goes better, because I feel safe enough to listen properly and not just react.

that's empathy hon. that's maturity, the ability to listen, take criticism, support your partner when she is afraid and unsteady. that's what you need in order to change yourself for the better. that's what you deserve in a partner.

your bf has clearly demonstrated to you over a period of years that he is not getting better, despite your attempts to communicate your needs, weaknesses, etc. and your attempts to support him.

if he's not getting it right after 3 years, really, there is no way he's going to wake up tomorrow with the will and wit to change. He likes his life the way it is. He is set in his ways, imo.

and yes, this is just my opinion. Perhaps you haven't revealed some salient information about him, and if I just knew that, i would say different. but i honestly doubt that. i don't see how someone who's racked up a list of crap like that ^ can muster up the will to change.

Wow, Oiko, what a beautiful story.
You deserve such a nice husband :)

Hi Marie - I'm sorry I have not read all of the thread as I'm off to bed but when I read your description of your relationship, I thought that your constant breaking up and going back sounded like BPD behaviour. Then I saw that your mother suffers from this so I'm not surprised that you have been conditioned to relate in this way.

Here in the UK, a recommended type of therapy for BPD is called DBT - it came from the States, developed by an amazing therapist called Marsha Linehan. Ideally people have DBT individually and go to a skills group alongside. Availability is very poor here though, no idea about where you are. Even though you do not have all of the behaviours often found alongside the relationship issues, such as self-harm, addiction and frequent suicidal ideas, a DBT approach sounds like it could really help you (mindfulness, which developed from meditation is a major part of the approach). Have you looked into it before? Here's a good website www.dbtselfhelp.com/ Sorry if this has been discussed already and I've missed it!

Oikopolis......I just had to go outside and breathe.

The part about how you cry because you feel unloved. Oh my God. Those are my feelings, my words, my fears! It's my experience! How could you also have my experience and describe it back to me like that-- with such familiarity and clarity?

You see, I've told him that I cry because I feel unloved; I've told him over and over except he's never held me or reassured me. He's never even so much as touched me he leaves me or makes me feel that I must leave. And then I can't calm myself down because I feel so abandoned and unloved. He doesn't even call when he gets back home. I cry all night long, and then he texts the next morning and asks if I want to talk. By that point I'm furious, and I tell him to just leave me alone. This pattern repeats and repeats and repeats. Here, I'd thought that it was my heart breaking, and I've been reenacting my childhood.

Your post hit me like a ton of bricks.

You are right about everything. I know it in more than I know anything.

I've questioned my intentions. I've thought, "Do I unconsciously manipulate him with my tears? Is there truth in his words?" No, I don't! I know it's not purposeful.....

You make me feel sane. There's a reason I react like I do when he's angry with me. I knew it wasn't manipulation. I couldn't understand my strong reaction to his anger before now, though. I couldn't understand why I couldn't stay present or disconnected when I was trying so desperately to stay present and disconnected. I wanted it to work so badly.

I didn't see your statement as being gloating at all, Marie. I read it as a statement of fact and, no matter how modest you may believe them to be, you should rightly be proud of all of your achievements

In drawing attention to your material success, the point I was trying to make is that you put your dysfunctional childhood to one side and got on with the task of supporting yourself while studying at college.

If you put the same degree of application into your emotional development, I have every confidence that you'll graduate with honours in the not to distant future

I share that confidence!

Marie, this isn't quite the same as you and Oiko (I'm not a crier) but I also suffered extreme anxiety when my ex got angry. He got angry a lot. Now, my father was an angry and violent man. It was clear to me and to my friends, without a minute of therapy, that my background made me extra vulnerable to male displays of temper. My ex knew this. He got angry a lot. Then he blamed me for getting distressed.

A man who cared about me would make allowances. Wanting to avoid further distress, he'd learn more adult ways of showing anger. He wouldn't belittle me for being upset. He'd make efforts not to trigger me. This paragraph, I only learned during therapy (and with help from this forum!) You see, I'd no experience with men who cared about me. Therefore, I accepted there was something 'wrong' with me - and that men would rage at me, and I would get upset.

I feel sorry for my old self, but bloody glad I'm learning a different way of life now

Oh darling. It is your childhood you're re-enacting, yes. the push and pull and sorrow and rage and terror of being stuck with a parent who couldn't ever meet your needs. i've been there, i know it all too well.

that reaction is something that's coming from a v old, v traumatized part of your mind, something that learned terror and sorrow when you were an infant. you're right, it's not a manipulation. it's a 100% understandable weak spot that was created by your mother's cruel treatment of you.

and it's utterly cruel for another human being to jab you in that weak spot. like garlicbutter says, a man who is worth his salt modifies his behaviour when he detects pain, sorrow or fear. or he mans up, and leaves the situation for good if he realises he's not helping! your bf has not done this. instead he resents your vulnerability, while simultaneously using it to hurt you!! (just as your mother may have done when you were a small child who needed her, but she didn't have the skills to care for you)

i so know that feeling of not being able to calm yourself down, or stay present. there have been times when i have literally "depersonalized" and had gaps in my memory of an argument. as if i've left my body because i can't handle how terrified and sickened i feel.

fwiw my therapist told me this is a very very common automatic coping mechanism for trauma survivors (and a bpd upbringing is just a series of traumas)... you're basically having a trauma flashback during the argument, so your brain just says "hell no" and puts you onto a sort of autopilot. unfortunately it's an autopilot where you usually keep talking, and often you say things that expose even more vulnerability... which is bad when you're arguing with someone like your bf.

Since my last post, I've been completely undone. I have been crying, not because of a sadness, but because of a long-sought and finally attained recognition. I've tortured myself over this. I finally make sense.

My ex bf (the one that lasted 8 years) and i didn't have a good relationship, either. As i said before, I had felt taken advantage of emotionally and financially. The relationship was similar in a lot of ways to the one I'm in now. I felt like it wasn't going anywhere. I waited and waited to be a bigger part of his life, I felt like my thoughts and needs were never considered, etc.

In contrast to my current boyfriend, however, my ex had a healthy self-esteem, and he was even-tempered. The two of us disagreed, but we never raised our voices or yelled or blamed. In eight years, I can count the number of times I cried over him on one hand, and we broke up only once. There was very little, if any, drama.

With my current bf, I've felt completely insane. I loved this man more than I had ever loved the former. Why, then, did I break up with him so often? Why did I cry so easily? I understood that he blamed me and had insecurities. I understood that he treated me differently/badly. I went to counseling and learned about staying present and being more compassionate and non-reactive. I learned these things, and I sincerely tried to utilize them, but i failed every time I tried. Nothing made sense. I thought, "I must be in this relationship for growth I need to learn to be more compassionate and understanding." I considered I must be manipulative or, like someone presumed earlier, a drama queen. But, why, then, was I not a drama queen or manipulative with my first bf? I was much younger and more inexperienced then. Why with this man? Blaming him for blaming me made some sense. I'd felt degraded and unheard that too made sense for my reaction. But, you see, I've always felt this awareness this "knowing" that there was more to it-- that there was something else that I was missing.

You've revealed it, oikopolis. My bf is an angry, insecure man, and his anger brings about the fear I felt as a child who wanted to be loved by her mother-- a mother who, at times, I feared would kill me in her rage.

I've felt unloved and abandoned by him when he was angry and blaming me for his insecurities. He dismissed me and abandoned me in my hurt. I broke up with him over and over, and then I felt such guilt and confusion. Ive been an emotional wreck over this relationship. I wanted it to work more than anything.

Oikopolis, I have to fly over there to Europe or wherever the hell you're from and buy you lunch and hug you and thank you for showing me who I am.

I'm being sensational, of course, but, seriously, from the bottom of my heart, thank you. I feel as though I finally get it.

Hallelujah! Seize the moment and hold that thought... you're on your way to a more emotionally enriching and fulfilling life, Marie.

But a word of caution - please don't make the mistake of thinking that you can use your newfound insight to fix him.

That won't happen, honey, and should you attempt to resolve his issues your sudden spurt of emotional growth and empowerment will be shortlived.

Oh sweetie I know that indescribable (wonderful? horrible? incredible? fantastic?) feeling of it finally making sense. The bolt from the blue. when insight springs fully-formed from your forehead!!

Write all of this down, write and write and write somewhere safe and private so you don't forget anything you found out today, so it will always belong to you. There might still be times when you need to remind yourself. And writing will bring out more too... more almost-forgotten echoes and shadows that now look crystal clear.

Thinking of you and hoping that more insights drop from the tree for you. They will you know. One by one, at the very moment you need each of them.

Agree with izzy too, never forget that this insight and energy is for YOU. If you spend it on someone else, it won't be worth anything, it won't work!! This is your time now, time for you to become whole and start living a full and happy life on your own terms. x

oik: the push and pull and sorrow and rage and terror of being stuck with a parent who couldn't ever meet your needs

that sentence really struck me and rang bells as they say. it's weird when you realise full on that actually YES it must have been terrifying for that child you were to be in that situation and then to really recognise that child is/was you is....

then you marie said about literally fearing she may kill you in her rage. i saw my mother towering over me snarling and sneering and out of control when i read that - i remembered. what you say is not over dramatic and is very wise - to a small child totally dependent that rage and madness and your own vulnerability could indeed make you fear for your life.

this thread has been so interesting and revealing and confirming and i'm really glad you started it and that it has been a support for you marie. your honesty and sharing has been a real gift for me actually and has made me more deeply understand things about my own history. so thank you

we were tiny little helpless children tossed about on the whim of the mood our mothers were in. that must have been so frightening and confusing. my mother did occasionally hit me but i never thought of her as physically abusive or counted that hitting because she didn't hurt me badly or cause any real damage. reading your words though (and have the memory of her towering over me in rage) i realise that her losing control and coming at me with slapping, lashing out hands must have been terrifying and that maybe physical abuse isn't about the amount of damage/pain caused but the terror induced and the reducing of you into a cowering ball with your hands over your head and no way to fight back.

lots of food for thought. i've always thought my mother had npd and the knowledge of that has helped me deal with her in the here and now and to stop her from being able to have power to hurt me like she used to be able to do. i think i still need to do some healing work on how the way she hurt me as a child though.

sorry to go on about me so much! i hope though, that you like me, find it helpful to know that other people can recognise stuff - i find i learn from other people in a way because my empathy and compassion is more easily aroused for them and then i can redirect some of it to me because hey i'm human too, i was a child too, this happened to me to iyswim. we do deserve to view ourselves compassionately and give time and energy to healing and repairing damage that was done to us when we had no power and when we didn't even have the mental resources to understand what was happening.

i'm not sorry you've been crying as cruel as that sounds because it sounds like that kind of healing, releasing, reconnecting crying and emotion and the relief of recognising ourselves and naming wounds.

you are amazing - the stuff you've realised and had the courage to face in the last few days is awesome. i too have every confidence in your ability to heal and move forward and have a really authentic and loving life.

No need to write it down again. Save this thread, and print it out when you need it.

Feel priviledged to have read this thread and your journeys.

This thread has taught me something, too.

All the best, Marie, keep posting when it helps. x

izzy and oikopolis,

You both read my mind and were able to apprehend me before I committed the error.

I had this incredible insight into my life, and the first thing I wanted to do was use it to fix my relationship. I thought to myself, "I can explain this to my bf, and he'll understand me now!"

I have to stop with this ridiculous idea of wanting to make the relationship work.

It truly feels impossible when I think about him, so I force myself to do something else when I start to think about him.

I know you're both right. You have to be. You know me better than I know myself at this point in my life.

I think he is seeing someone else or maybe still shagging his ex.

One of the first posts was 'he's just not that into you' have you got the book? it is essential for someone who is in a 'relationship' like you have. Really not the film though, just the book.

Leave him please, you deserve better, someone who will be just for you and not bring all of this baggage with them. It is out there and you are wasting time.

Oh dear I only read the first page, looks like I missed quite a lot. Will read the rest with a glass of wine after dinner. Sorry if my post was totally inappropriate!