Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I really want this to work.

186 replies

Marie229 · 01/03/2012 19:33

I'm going to start from the beginning. I started dating my boyfriend 3 years ago when he and his now ex-wife were separated. I know he went through a lot of trauma/hesitation deciding whether he made the right decision to separate/divorce because of his young son. I've always seen him as a very involved and sensitive father.

He ultimately decided that divorce was his best option. The way he described it to me was that he felt like he couldn't be himself in the relationship. He felt he married the wrong person. He was very unhappy and not-at-all in love. There was constant fighting and friction. He felt that his son would ultimately benefit from the split.

I know, believe me I know, that I shouldn't have gotten involved with him while he was still married to his ex wife. I regret it deeply (hind sight is truly 20/20). The only thing I can say is that I fell in love with this man. It was a love unlike anything I'd ever experienced (I'd only had one other boyfriend that lasted 8 years.) He was highly intelligent, very good looking, sensitive, receptive, and so many other things. What I adored most, though, was how we both viewed relationships. We both felt relationships should come first-- before parents, kids, jobs, passions, everything. We felt that the relationship was the foundation for everything else good. For example, if the husband/wife were happy and in love, then the children would be happy and well-adjusted. We had similar views on so many of life's questions. I felt it was a soul-to-soul meeting. I know that sounds silly, but I was truly head-over-heals for this guy. I ruined my reputation by dating him (because he wasn't yet divorced), and it didn't matter to me at all. I felt I needed to follow my heart.

Three years have now gone. I don't know what's going on anymore. I've only met his parents once, and I've only met his son once (about a month ago). I've asked (nearly begged) to be a bigger part of his life. At one point he told me, "What did you expect fooling around with a married man?" Another time he told me, "I can't introduce my son to some girlfriend." It feels like the only times he acknowledges my feelings is when I break up with him. When I try to talk to him, I feel like he gets angry. When he gets angry, I feel mistreated, and I break up with him. I've broken up with him numerous times. It's probably been three dozen times. Every time we break up, he apologizes, and I truly believe he means it. But then I get told that it's my fault that the relationship hasn't progressed because I break up with him every time there's a problem. Maybe I am being unrealistic. I can't tell anymore. I know that I don't feel heard, and that I feel uncared for and unloved when I try to bring something up. Maybe I should just understand that he'll react defensively. I've also reacted defensively.

Let me go into detail about the last few times we've argued....

I only see him on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays, and Sundays because he has his son on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays. I don't always get to see him on my days, though, because his son is involved in Boy Scouts, soccer, baseball, and church. He is an awesome dad and rarely misses anything. I also can only see him until about 7 or 7:30 at night S-TH because he gets up at 3:30 AM to work out for two hours before work. Well, I look forward to Friday evenings with him because he stays a little longer. He doesn't stay that much longer, though, because he likes to go grocery shopping Saturday mornings around 6am before anyone gets there. OK, so this particular Friday evening, he decided to skip his son's soccer practice. Our relationship had really been suffering, so he felt we needed the extra time together. It made me feel like he was really making an effort for us, but I felt badly about him missing soccer practice. This was only the second time in three years that he missed a soccer practice, and he has never missed a soccer game. I made stuffed chicken and had wine, and we were really having a nice time together talking and connecting. At about 6:00, his ex-wife texted him telling him he was an awful father for choosing his girlfriend over his son (she used a lot of curse words and name calling, too.) He read the text to me and sat down on the couch. I could tell he was questioning whether there was truth in the text. He asked me if he was a bad father, and I told him that he wasn't. The whole mood of our evening shifted from that point on. I felt guilty that he missed soccer practice and because he was questioning whether he was a good dad. He completely disconnected from me, so we just started watching TV together. He calls his son every night at 8PM to tell him goodnight. Every night, he can't get a hold of his ex-wife. Sometimes, I think she does it on purpose to tick him off, and sometimes I think she's just really scatter-brained. Anyway, he gets furious every Friday night at 8 when he can't get a hold of his son. This particular Friday night, he was pacing the floor, criticizing his ex, and redialing about every 30 seconds. This happens every Friday night. I can tell you that leading up to 8 PM, I start to feel sick because I'm dreading the goodnight call. I don't know if his ex is going to answer and they're going to start yelling at each other, or if she's not going to answer, or if he's going to be disappointed when his son only wants to talk for a few minutes. Also, he gets angry because his ex and their son are usually always out, and he feels they should be at home getting ready for bed at 8PM. So, on this Friday night, after he finally did get to talk to his son, I calmly suggested that he stop the 8pm goodnight calls. He looked offended. I went on to explain how it always seems like a disappointment to him. He's either getting angry at his ex or angry because his son isn't at home in bed. I also explained how it's not really a bonding experience since his son is always ready to get off the phone after a couple minutes. I told him how it makes me feel like our time together is ruined and how much I look forward to our Friday nights. Well, you would have thought I slapped him in the face. He was furious with me. He felt I wanted to limit his time with his son. He was offended that I implied that I was the only one who looked forward to our Friday nights. I started crying. He stormed out of my house angry. He hates when I cry. He told me in the past that my crying is a form of manipulation. I broke up with him the next morning because I felt so hurt and uncared for. I told him how his anger and bad moods are affecting our lives, and how I don't want to live the rest of my life in his misery. He emailed me and texted all of these wonderful insights and promises, and we got back together after two weeks apart.

The first night we're back together is another Friday night. We talk and laugh and connect. I feel like everything is going to work out after two weeks apart. We make love. He gets up to leave immediately after. I'm hurt, and he asks why I'm hurt. I tell him that I don't want him to leave. I ask him to stay. He tells me he never expected to make love our first night back together, and he didn't plan on staying. He tells me he's confused by why I wanted to have sex in the first place. He leaves. I'm angry because we've had this same situation a number of times in the past, and he knows I'm hurt by it. The next morning I tell him I was hurt. He's defensive. He points out to me again that he had no intention of staying. He doesn't want to be out that late because he gets up early to go grocery shopping. He points out that I never stay at his house. He points out that I like to sleep in until 8, and he likes to get up at 5. All of these things are true. But I just feel like they're stretched. The reason I don't stay at his house is because I have a little dog, and it's not allowed at his house. I can't abandon my dog over night all alone-- especially after being at work all day long. He says that's an excuse I have. And the sleeping in until 8 is not true. I usually get up at 7, but I would happily get up at 5 with him and make breakfast. He makes me feel unloved when he does this, and then he gets angry at me for feeling that way. He says I imply that he only uses me for sex. I know he doesn't use me for sex. I truly believe he doesn't. He just really is obsessive about the schedule he keeps. I just don't understand how he doesn't recognize that his behavior is hurtful to me. So, again, I got angry with him and told him to leave me alone. We got back together, this time, the following Sunday.

On Sunday, I went over to his house. We were lying on his couch holding each other talking about our lives. I expressed discontent with my current job (we have the same types of job). I told him how I've been thinking about going back to school. I told him about how I really search for meaning in our jobs. Before I said any of this, I told him that I didn't want to offend him because I knew he liked our jobs. We talked openly and nicely. I felt wonderful after our talk and time together. Later that night, he called me put me down for talking negatively about our jobs. He asked if I could ever respect him since I wanted a different career and he was satisfied in the one we had. He said he was insulted day after day by his ex because she didn't have any respect for our jobs, either. I reassured him repeatedly that this was my issue, and that I loved that he loved his job. He kept questioning me and questioning me. I kept apologizing. Finally, I just hung up on him. The next morning, he didn't call me like he usually does. Around lunch time, I texted him that I was sorry and tried to explain things again. That night, I called him and apologized again. He told me I was hypocrite. I didn't understand. He went on to explain how I had broken up with him for two weeks because of his anger and discontent with how his ex wife treats him. He told me I'm a hypocrite for telling him that he should accept things and be happy when I'm not happy in my own life. He just kept putting me down. So, I told him to leave me alone again. We tried texting last night, but he, again, told me I was a hypocrite and asked why the things I tell him don't apply to myself. I don't think I'm being a hypocrite, but maybe I am?

I'm so confused. I really love him and want this to work.

OP posts:
Portofino · 02/03/2012 15:07

lisaro, yes I have noticed that too.

Smellslikecatspee · 02/03/2012 15:50

Seriously have you so little self respect?

I have been banging my head against a wall re: 2 of my friends current crap relationships, but this one...........Wow.

A little less hand holding and talking about feelings and a bit more common sense and self respect. Stop bloody chasing him around, he treats you like crap and everytime you run after him you're telling him you see no value in yourself.

Oh and I fully agree with above; you are the back up date, chances are he got some other poor fool wondering why she can only see him on Tue/Thur/Sat. . . .

KatieScarlett2833 · 02/03/2012 15:51

You know what they say, when a man marries his mistress he creates a vacancy?

But to him, you are not even worth marrying.

He is a control freak loser, get rid.

izzyizin · 02/03/2012 15:54

Maybe that's because they are American, lisaro Grin

oldwomaninashoe · 02/03/2012 16:20

The OP is so blinded by "love" that she fails to see the reality of this relationship, in short it is not a relationship, she is NOT a girlfriend or partner to him she is just a convenience and from the "schedule" it seems that he may have other "conveniences" dotted around!

Get a grip please OP you are living your life by his timetable, his rules and at his convenience.
Next time you break up, go out with a friend let your hair down, live a little have some fun,just pretend he doesn't exist, you know you might find it liberating.

You are probably reading all the responses on here are they are upsetting you because they are all critical of your boyfriend and your "relationship".
Think very hard the MN'rs are all unrelated strangers on the internet that have read your post and have in the main come to the same conclusions.
That should tell you something.
For your own sense of self worth, please do not let this continue.

VeryLittleGravitas · 02/03/2012 16:54

'Tis the language of the internets, lisaro

MardyArsedMidlander · 02/03/2012 17:55

I don't know about feeling guilty for being a marriage breaker... if his wife had any sense, she'd hung out the bunting the sexond he moved out.

Grocery shopping at 6am on a Saturday morning???? Sulking because you want to change jobs???? He is one sad inadequate fucker.

LeBOF · 02/03/2012 17:56

I lost the will to live before I got to the end. Which is sort of a metaphor for the whole situation.

Portofino · 02/03/2012 18:01

Do you have any dc, OP? I am a bit curious and always wonder why people find MN for these kind of threads - it is a parenting site after all.

LeBOF · 02/03/2012 18:03

Yes, it would be interesting to know, wouldn't it? There are so many agony aunt sites on the web, especially in America.

Rindercella · 02/03/2012 18:13

Has the American OP come back yet?

Portofino · 02/03/2012 18:22

Nope - only the OP. She is probably still at work.

schobe · 02/03/2012 18:34

It's nice that you keep 'connecting'. What is that? Is it something rude?

He sounds like an arsehole though. Gets up at 3.30am to work out??? That's all I would need to know.

Marie229 · 02/03/2012 19:02

To answer some of your questions......

It's just so hard for me to believe that he's selfish. It seems like to me that maybe he just has poor ways of dealing with conflict, so he blames me for things he can't own up to.

I do feel like I can't take it anymore. I know the way he reacts to me is unhealthy. I feel such sadness about leaving the relationship, though. Someone said I have a Romeo/Juliet complex. Maybe I do. I like to think that love should stick in there. I really believe things can and will get better if I could learn to deal with his insecurities better and not take them personally.

I do break up with him repeatedly because, in the moment, I feel like I can't take the emotional pain. I do act like I'm 15. Shouldn't I try to improve my own coping skills? Couldn't this relationship help me grow?

There is no other woman. I'm sure of it. When he leaves my house, he calls me and tells me goodnight every evening, and he calls me every morning. I can and do call him at different times. I know he gets up and works out every morning for two hours-- his body shows it. Also, I show up at his house in the mornings sometimes just to surprise him and have more time with him while he's getting ready for work. I catch him as he's coming home from the gym drenched in sweat. I know he goes grocery shopping every Saturday at the break of dawn; I've gone with him numerous times. He asks me to go with him so we have more time together. He truly is that obsessed with time management and having a schedule.

He is 10 years older than I am. I'm 30; he's 40.

I am American.

My previous relationship that lasted 8 years ended because I was so unhappy. He had this hobby of racing that took up half of our income (we lived together), and he spent at least two weekends out of every month on his hobby (out of state). He spent a lot of evenings during the week on his hobby. I paid all the bills. I wanted to get married and start a family. He told me he might want to get married and start a family in 5 years (we were 25 at the time). He told me he imagined getting a rv and traveling to races together as a family. I just couldn't imagine a life with him anymore. I felt taken advantage of emotionally and financially. Plus, there was no passion.

I really don't believe that people are inherently bad. I see all of your points-of-view, but I don't see him as a jerk or a manipulator or selfish. I feel badly for him.

The way he portrays is ex-wife to me, I see her as similar to him in that she has poor coping skills and blames her problems on others. The two of them together were like fire and gasoline. They were also violent in that they threw things and broke things and fought and cursed and called names. It seems like it was an awful relationship. I don't see him as selfish for wanting out. Also, the ex does the 8:00 goodnight call, too, when he has their child. He always anticipates the call, and that's why he sees her as so disrespectful.

I know I do things wrong, too. I have a bad habit of telling him how he should handle things differently. He tells me I think I know everything, and that I don't like anything about him anymore. I feel horrible. I can see how I come across that way to him.

OP posts:
Portofino · 02/03/2012 19:13

Well you just need to dump him, basically. He is not doing you any favours. Sorry.

oikopolis · 02/03/2012 19:26

It's just so hard for me to believe that he's selfish.

It's hard to believe that you can't see his selfishness. You strike me as the sort of person who listens to words instead of watching actions. Actions are the indicator of selfishness... this guy sounds like he has little time for you, and like his emotional fuckwittery is waaayyyyy more important to him than your happiness. That means he is selfish.

It seems like to me that maybe he just has poor ways of dealing with conflict, so he blames me for things he can't own up to.

This is a massive danger sign, rather than a reasonable explanation of his behaviour. Someone who has poor coping skills and who blames you for their problems is extremely ill-equipped for a relationship.

In fact having this sort of issue is a warning sign for abusive behaviour... men who can't cope usually become men who victimise others in order to release their stress.

I like to think that love should stick in there.

"Love" isn't this holy, sacred thing that exists as an idealistic principle to be striven for.

Infatuation and its later incarnation, attachment (the feeling that you are bonded with a person), are chemical things; they can happen (and frequently do happen) even between partners who are completely unsuited to one another. If you are attached to someone who is idiotic, it is foolish to continue seeing them. Breaking it off (despite the withdrawal symptoms, which again are chemical things and not an indication of anything) is the best thing to do.

Love, on the other hand, is a much more practical thing. If you are healthily attached, you will usually care for one another meticulously and respectfully over a period of years. That meticulous, habitual care creates good feelings, which strengthen the attachment and keep it healthy. Which creates a positive cycle of care -> attachment -> care -> deepening attachment. This is love, and this is what we mean when we say "their love grew stronger" and so on.

It sounds like you two are very unhealthily attached. Your bond is volatile and miserable, which is also why you frequently try to give up on it. Love is not something that can grow between the two of you; all there is is a miserable sort of addictive cycle with lots of guilt, shame and blame. which keeps you unhealthily attached. because you suffer from the illusion that "sticking to it" will make it better. sadly you are wrong.

Shouldn't I try to improve my own coping skills? Couldn't this relationship help me grow?

Yes you should, and no, this relationship will not help you do that.

When you are unhealthily attached to someone, the overwhelming negativity that results means that you will find it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to improve anything within yourself. All your attention is focused on him, pleasing him, "making it better". There is no room for you in this relationship, imo.

That is also why you say things like:

I really believe things can and will get better if I could learn to deal with his insecurities better and not take them personally.

I have a bad habit of telling him how he should handle things differently. He tells me I think I know everything, and that I don't like anything about him anymore. I feel horrible. I can see how I come across that way to him.

That's tosh. You two are just poorly suited, and make one another miserable. Move on. You sound beaten down and miserable, and if a man makes you feel like that, then you should not be with him. Sorry.

oikopolis · 02/03/2012 19:29

He was in a physically abusive relationship with his exwife. He then jumped straight into a relationship with you.

Can you see how this was never going to work?

The same things that made his marriage abusive are now making your life hellish. The common denominator here is him, not you. He needs to seek help and change himself... this has nothing to do with you. And you can't make it better.

Once a man with an abusive past has started acting out the same stuff in the next relationship, sorry, it is too late and things are only going to get worse.

There is absolutely nothing you can do for him, besides leave the situation and hope that he does better in his next relationship.

swallowedAfly · 02/03/2012 19:29

you clearly don't want to hear it OP but it's an awful relationship. you have nothing and you're throwing away yet more years on ANOTHER man who won't commit to you and puts everything ahead of you. do you still want to have children?

swallowedAfly · 02/03/2012 19:32

great post from olko

SorryMyLollipop · 02/03/2012 20:00

OP did you actually post on here expecting people to respond with e.g. "If you can learn how to shut the fuck up deal with his insecurities, this could be a perfect, wholesome, emotionally healthy relationship. All you need to do is . .blah blah . etc"?

I just don't understand why people post on here and then don't listen to the unanimous responses from very experienced people who have taken the time and trouble to respond.

OP please, please listen to the collective voices of the wise women of MN.

I know its a shock to face up to the harsh reality of being in an abusive relationship. I know it takes time to adjust your perceptions and remove your rose tinted glasses. I know that you must have doubts about your relationship to post on here in the first place and that you have taken a brave first step on the road to happiness and recovery. We are here to help and support you. Please, please listen.

CurrySpice · 02/03/2012 21:37

I go back to what I said earlier OP - you are over-analysing and over-thinking everything in a way that you would never have to with a soul mate. It sounds like such hard work. He sounds like hard work. The relationship sounds like hard work

And totally joyless

Marie229 · 02/03/2012 22:16

I don't know what i expected,SorryMyLollipop. I just feel so heart broken. All of what you are all saying is what I tell myself as I'm breaking up with him. I do believe the relationship is unhealthy.....I do feel beaten down.

Some of you repost my words, and I sound so ridiculous. I don't know how this is me.

I don't know how this happened, or how I can still feel so in love with him.

When there isn't conflict, we are very happy together. I love so much about him and we enjoy each other's company. I just don't know how this happened.

I still don't think my boyfriend is aware of how he handles conflict so negatively; I can't bring myself to believe his behavior is purposeful.

Do you believe in passionate love, oikopolis? Or do you feel that true love is more of a deep attachment where passion fades and companionship increases?

I feel like I don't know anything anymore. I was so certain about this relationship. I've ended up being so terribly wrong.

OP posts:
StarRose · 02/03/2012 22:42

Marie I can understand where you're coming from. I can see elements of both my previous and my current relationship in the things you've described. I'm struggling at the moment to come to terms with the fact that my dp may actually be controlling and abusive (even though he is also the most loving, caring, wonderful boyfriend at times) and that I really need to end it and move on with my life. It's just so hard to let go when you've invested so much. I do agree with everything people are saying, that you really shouldn't be in this relationship. And I can see that also means I shouldn't be in mine. I hope you can find the strength to break free, and that you find peace and happiness without this man dragging you down all the time. And I hope I can do the same.

oikopolis · 02/03/2012 22:43

Do you believe in passionate love, oikopolis? Or do you feel that true love is more of a deep attachment where passion fades and companionship increases?
True love = strong infatuation -> strong healthy attachment -> a cycle of positive acts of care -> stronger and stronger attachment.

The feelings of "passionate love" are usually a feature of the infatuation stage just as it's tipping into the strong attachment stage. Though in many relationships, the "passionate love" feeling returns at intervals during that cycle of positive acts stage

Basically, after a certain time of positive acts of care, the partners might well up with emotion/appreciation/memory of the heady initial infatuation, and that causes the passionate feelings to bloom for a time.

Then normal life catches up for a while, positive acts of care continue, and after a time, same thing -- passion blooms up. What I'm saying is, it's cyclical. Other wise we'd all be running around permanently on heat for one another, and never get anything done Wink

I do think that many people, simply due to their personalities, don't get the "passionate" thing happening to them. But many people do, and it's lovely when it happens.

Do you love that passionate stage? I think you do, don't you? That's why the break-up cycle is so addictive for you. When you get back together, the passionate feelings return because you're both trying so hard to connect again, to attach again. I think that feeling is illusory though. You're manufacturing it with the breaking-up tactics.

When there isn't conflict, we are very happy together.
This means that your relationship is not strong at all. There is always going to be conflict and unless you have a gameplan for it, you are stuffed frankly.

when DH & I got together, we stormed and argued mercilessly for about 18months (we are v v v different and it was a culture shock frankly, plus we were quite young.)... and then we attached securely, and found our feet together. Now arguments are not a big deal. They happen maybe once every 2-3 months? Really no more than a blip on the radar really. That's how it's meant to be.

I still don't think my boyfriend is aware of how he handles conflict so negatively; I can't bring myself to believe his behavior is purposeful.
I understand that you think this means you should stick with him. Right? Because he "doesn't mean it", etc.

I need to shatter your illusions here, I apologise. It doesn't matter if he doesn't mean to do it or not. What matters is, he does it, and it is extremely damaging and painful for you, and makes you feel like utter shit.

I can guarantee you that most abusers out there would actually prefer not to be abusive. They would actually prefer to be happy, if that was something they felt was available to them. But they lack the skills and the fundamental insights necessary to make better decisions... and there is nothing anyone can do about that.

Staying with a man who has no idea how to manage his emotional life will not help him, and it will certainly not help you.

As long as you are there perpetuating the cycle of fuckwittery, nothing can get better for either of you. The loving thing to do is to leave a man who is incapable of healthy interactions. He has a lot of thinking and changing to do if he is ever going to be happy, and you can't help with that.

I feel like I don't know anything anymore. I was so certain about this relationship. I've ended up being so terribly wrong.
Your poor lamb, you sound distraught. I know this is very hard, and for that I am so sorry.

I really think you need to move on, for your own sanity. You deserve peace, if nothing else.

WhereMyMilk · 02/03/2012 23:02

Bloody bloody good post Oiko ;)

Swipe left for the next trending thread