I really want this to work.

[Marie229]

I'm going to start from the beginning. I started dating my boyfriend 3 years ago when he and his now ex-wife were separated. I know he went through a lot of trauma/hesitation deciding whether he made the right decision to separate/divorce because of his young son. I've always seen him as a very involved and sensitive father.

He ultimately decided that divorce was his best option. The way he described it to me was that he felt like he couldn't be himself in the relationship. He felt he married the wrong person. He was very unhappy and not-at-all in love. There was constant fighting and friction. He felt that his son would ultimately benefit from the split.

I know, believe me I know, that I shouldn't have gotten involved with him while he was still married to his ex wife. I regret it deeply (hind sight is truly 20/20). The only thing I can say is that I fell in love with this man. It was a love unlike anything I'd ever experienced (I'd only had one other boyfriend that lasted 8 years.) He was highly intelligent, very good looking, sensitive, receptive, and so many other things. What I adored most, though, was how we both viewed relationships. We both felt relationships should come first-- before parents, kids, jobs, passions, everything. We felt that the relationship was the foundation for everything else good. For example, if the husband/wife were happy and in love, then the children would be happy and well-adjusted. We had similar views on so many of life's questions. I felt it was a soul-to-soul meeting. I know that sounds silly, but I was truly head-over-heals for this guy. I ruined my reputation by dating him (because he wasn't yet divorced), and it didn't matter to me at all. I felt I needed to follow my heart.

Three years have now gone. I don't know what's going on anymore. I've only met his parents once, and I've only met his son once (about a month ago). I've asked (nearly begged) to be a bigger part of his life. At one point he told me, "What did you expect fooling around with a married man?" Another time he told me, "I can't introduce my son to some girlfriend." It feels like the only times he acknowledges my feelings is when I break up with him. When I try to talk to him, I feel like he gets angry. When he gets angry, I feel mistreated, and I break up with him. I've broken up with him numerous times. It's probably been three dozen times. Every time we break up, he apologizes, and I truly believe he means it. But then I get told that it's my fault that the relationship hasn't progressed because I break up with him every time there's a problem. Maybe I am being unrealistic. I can't tell anymore. I know that I don't feel heard, and that I feel uncared for and unloved when I try to bring something up. Maybe I should just understand that he'll react defensively. I've also reacted defensively.

Let me go into detail about the last few times we've argued....

I only see him on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays, and Sundays because he has his son on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays. I don't always get to see him on my days, though, because his son is involved in Boy Scouts, soccer, baseball, and church. He is an awesome dad and rarely misses anything. I also can only see him until about 7 or 7:30 at night S-TH because he gets up at 3:30 AM to work out for two hours before work. Well, I look forward to Friday evenings with him because he stays a little longer. He doesn't stay that much longer, though, because he likes to go grocery shopping Saturday mornings around 6am before anyone gets there. OK, so this particular Friday evening, he decided to skip his son's soccer practice. Our relationship had really been suffering, so he felt we needed the extra time together. It made me feel like he was really making an effort for us, but I felt badly about him missing soccer practice. This was only the second time in three years that he missed a soccer practice, and he has never missed a soccer game. I made stuffed chicken and had wine, and we were really having a nice time together talking and connecting. At about 6:00, his ex-wife texted him telling him he was an awful father for choosing his girlfriend over his son (she used a lot of curse words and name calling, too.) He read the text to me and sat down on the couch. I could tell he was questioning whether there was truth in the text. He asked me if he was a bad father, and I told him that he wasn't. The whole mood of our evening shifted from that point on. I felt guilty that he missed soccer practice and because he was questioning whether he was a good dad. He completely disconnected from me, so we just started watching TV together. He calls his son every night at 8PM to tell him goodnight. Every night, he can't get a hold of his ex-wife. Sometimes, I think she does it on purpose to tick him off, and sometimes I think she's just really scatter-brained. Anyway, he gets furious every Friday night at 8 when he can't get a hold of his son. This particular Friday night, he was pacing the floor, criticizing his ex, and redialing about every 30 seconds. This happens every Friday night. I can tell you that leading up to 8 PM, I start to feel sick because I'm dreading the goodnight call. I don't know if his ex is going to answer and they're going to start yelling at each other, or if she's not going to answer, or if he's going to be disappointed when his son only wants to talk for a few minutes. Also, he gets angry because his ex and their son are usually always out, and he feels they should be at home getting ready for bed at 8PM. So, on this Friday night, after he finally did get to talk to his son, I calmly suggested that he stop the 8pm goodnight calls. He looked offended. I went on to explain how it always seems like a disappointment to him. He's either getting angry at his ex or angry because his son isn't at home in bed. I also explained how it's not really a bonding experience since his son is always ready to get off the phone after a couple minutes. I told him how it makes me feel like our time together is ruined and how much I look forward to our Friday nights. Well, you would have thought I slapped him in the face. He was furious with me. He felt I wanted to limit his time with his son. He was offended that I implied that I was the only one who looked forward to our Friday nights. I started crying. He stormed out of my house angry. He hates when I cry. He told me in the past that my crying is a form of manipulation. I broke up with him the next morning because I felt so hurt and uncared for. I told him how his anger and bad moods are affecting our lives, and how I don't want to live the rest of my life in his misery. He emailed me and texted all of these wonderful insights and promises, and we got back together after two weeks apart.

The first night we're back together is another Friday night. We talk and laugh and connect. I feel like everything is going to work out after two weeks apart. We make love. He gets up to leave immediately after. I'm hurt, and he asks why I'm hurt. I tell him that I don't want him to leave. I ask him to stay. He tells me he never expected to make love our first night back together, and he didn't plan on staying. He tells me he's confused by why I wanted to have sex in the first place. He leaves. I'm angry because we've had this same situation a number of times in the past, and he knows I'm hurt by it. The next morning I tell him I was hurt. He's defensive. He points out to me again that he had no intention of staying. He doesn't want to be out that late because he gets up early to go grocery shopping. He points out that I never stay at his house. He points out that I like to sleep in until 8, and he likes to get up at 5. All of these things are true. But I just feel like they're stretched. The reason I don't stay at his house is because I have a little dog, and it's not allowed at his house. I can't abandon my dog over night all alone-- especially after being at work all day long. He says that's an excuse I have. And the sleeping in until 8 is not true. I usually get up at 7, but I would happily get up at 5 with him and make breakfast. He makes me feel unloved when he does this, and then he gets angry at me for feeling that way. He says I imply that he only uses me for sex. I know he doesn't use me for sex. I truly believe he doesn't. He just really is obsessive about the schedule he keeps. I just don't understand how he doesn't recognize that his behavior is hurtful to me. So, again, I got angry with him and told him to leave me alone. We got back together, this time, the following Sunday.

On Sunday, I went over to his house. We were lying on his couch holding each other talking about our lives. I expressed discontent with my current job (we have the same types of job). I told him how I've been thinking about going back to school. I told him about how I really search for meaning in our jobs. Before I said any of this, I told him that I didn't want to offend him because I knew he liked our jobs. We talked openly and nicely. I felt wonderful after our talk and time together. Later that night, he called me put me down for talking negatively about our jobs. He asked if I could ever respect him since I wanted a different career and he was satisfied in the one we had. He said he was insulted day after day by his ex because she didn't have any respect for our jobs, either. I reassured him repeatedly that this was my issue, and that I loved that he loved his job. He kept questioning me and questioning me. I kept apologizing. Finally, I just hung up on him. The next morning, he didn't call me like he usually does. Around lunch time, I texted him that I was sorry and tried to explain things again. That night, I called him and apologized again. He told me I was hypocrite. I didn't understand. He went on to explain how I had broken up with him for two weeks because of his anger and discontent with how his ex wife treats him. He told me I'm a hypocrite for telling him that he should accept things and be happy when I'm not happy in my own life. He just kept putting me down. So, I told him to leave me alone again. We tried texting last night, but he, again, told me I was a hypocrite and asked why the things I tell him don't apply to myself. I don't think I'm being a hypocrite, but maybe I am?

I'm so confused. I really love him and want this to work.

Op please take notice of all these posts and cut your losses ith this man. You are young and this is going nohere. You deserve a decent relationship and ther opportunity of a stable relationship and family. It won't happen with him

Oikopolis, I read your post earlier today, and I've been thinking about it all day/evening. I've not rolled an eye, nor have i thought you were on some higher moral ground. Your responses are strikingly thought-provoking. I feel I need to reexamine so many of my choices and thoughts now.

I was in counseling for four months (I just recently abandoned it). My boyfriend said he would go with me, but never did. I felt like I was working on a relationship single-handedly.

I'm somewhat overwhelmed with all of the support and time people are giving me on this forum. I've felt so alone and confused for a long time.

Ive read quite a number of books on BPD, relationships, and self-meaning. You, oikopolis, though have put things in perspective personally for me in a way I've not experienced. Specifically, I've not had BPD so succinctly explained. You described my mother to me. My mother does believe her feelings are reality. She even makes up lies about reality to support her feelings. I've never in my life been able to explain why my mother is a pathological liar. I understand it now! She has to lie to support her feelings which are her reality.... Unbelievable. I feel so sorry for her now. I don't think I can feel angry again when she lies. I'll feel pity instead.

You see, I'm still a firm believer that people are not inherently bad. I try to understand why behavior occurs insteading of just labeling someone as a jerk. I see that everyone on here is right, though, that regardless of what's intentional or unintentional, my relationship is unhealthy. It's true that I'm feeling intense heartache over losing the relationship, though. I dont want to let it go. My bf texted me three times today telling me he missed and loved me. I'm heart broken. I miss him, too. I love him.

You said abusive people lack the skills and insights necessary to make better decisions. Can't he learn them, though? What if he would agree to counseling and be open to change? Do you truly believe I'm running on fumes even if he would be open to growth?

I go back and forth. I do idealize love. If I look at his actions, he's been extremely selfish. I've spent holidays, birthdays, and weekends alone because he had his son, and I wasn't allowed to meet his son yet. When I expressed sadness over not being together (meaning he, his son, and I), he told me he wasn't ready to bring more disruption to his son's life. Then, I would feel guilty for putting my needs before what he felt was best for his son. After three years, though, I can't justify this anymore. Swallowedafly, you mentioned you became exhausted in your relationship. I've used those same words. I get headaches and can't sleep. I go back and forth, back and forth. I just want to feel at peace in my decision. I guess what I'm realizing is that I have to change these stories I've told myself about Love.

I need to read more about the effects of BPD on children. I do see love as all-consuming. I get lost in it. I do find myself believing my heart is telling me the truth. I don't think I know how to be in a relationship. I'm 30 years old, and I feel like I know nothing and have everything to learn.

Thank you all for taking an interest in my life. I mean that more than I could ever articulate.

Oik, you didn't come across badly, quite the opposite! Maybe a bit irritating to br quoting all her posts back to her and pointing out where she was wrong snd you've got it so right

Not that I begrudge you that (good on ya! ) and not that everything you said wasn't right. Far from it

Just that if I were the op, by now I would've rolled my eyes and poured a large drink

I really believe things can and will get better if I could learn to deal with his insecurities better and not take them personally

Honey - fuck his insecurities! The only insecuritiesyou need to deal with are your own and once you've resolved them, you won't fall victim to any man who tries to jerk your chain and make you feel bad about yourself because you haven't cut him enough slack, or turned yourself inside out and compromised your needs and your values for him.

As for 'love', it's a chimera and it's what you make it; it's what each of us personally choose to believe it is - or not, as the case may be.

Check out the lyrics to Joni Mitchell's 'Both Sides Now' and look at love that way.

The bottom line is that if a relationship doesn't enhance your life and make you feel that you can be all that you want to be and more, it's not worth having.

Why settle for second best when you deserve the best?

There's no shortage of decent, honest, caring, respectful men in the world. If you embark on the quest for your prince among men now, I doubt that you'll be looking for long.

My bf texted me three times today telling me he missed and loved me

Talk is cheap, Marie. He loves you so much that during your 3 year relationship he's let you spend holidays, birthdays, and weekends alone waiting for him to flick you the next crumb off his table.

FWIW, I'm not interested in your life; I'm interested in you because I know that when you have developed a sense of self-worth and when you begin to truly value yourself, your life will become satisfying and fulfilling and you'll easily be able to rise to any challenge it may bring.

He really isn't into you ..... Walk away whilst you can.

Leverette, how did you go about reconstructing yourself?

Garlic butter, I keep re-reading your post, too. I am trying to change him, and I fantasize a lot of what-ifs scenarios..... He was that man in the beginning, though. I know it's naive to believe the initial part of love is real. I am a clinger. I'm not being fair to him, either.

Swallowedafly, you asked a while ago if I still wanted children. I do, and that's been one of our ongoing arguments. In the beginning of our relationship, I asked right away about marriage and children. I worried that it wouldn't hold as much importance to him since he'd already been married and had a child, and since he was older than I. He reassured me that he loved that a family was so important to me. He told me, "Children are great no matter how old you are."

Last summer, he dumped me for a whole month without warning. He said he didn't want any more children. He said he was too old. He told me that he should matter most to me. I felt so guilty because he does matter so much to me. I go back and forth about whether having kids is something that maybe I just thought/think I wanted/want.

He and his ex had fertility issues, and she blamed him for it and was obsessed with getting pregnant. See how he takes his baggage from his ex and uses it against us? That's why he flipped out over me wanting to change jobs. His ex always made fun of his job. I see how he jumps to conclusions and let's fear rule his good sense because of insecurities. I guess this goes back to the fact that it doesn't matter whether the hurt is intentional or not, though.....

I really don't believe having children is a priority to him in life.

I feel so ridiculous. I'm crazy. I type these things out and realize how futile this relationship is.....

You are not going to change him ....

If you had a daughter who was in a relationship like yours wouldn't you tell her to run for the hills? Your dp is not there for you now and NOtHING is going to change that. Don't fool yourself. Make today the first day of your life and get rid of him.

Izzy, TY.

I didn't even make it through the whole op, let alone the thread. But just, dump him. Just do it. For good. You sound like a drama queen and he sounds like a complete fuckwit.

Last summer, he dumped me for a whole month without warning. He said he didn't want any more children. He said he was too old. He told me that he should matter most to me. I felt so guilty because he does matter so much to me. I go back and forth about whether having kids is something that maybe I just thought/think I wanted/want.

How selfish and nasty. He moves the goalposts about a massively important thing, that you had always been upfront about, and which is very normal and understandable, then makes it your problem? You should be happy with just him? Yeah right. And he's not even offering a proper relationship, a chance to be a step mum, anything!

There is nothing wrong with wanting children, it is anatural and loving desire to have a baby with the man you love, it is also natural to want the experience of being a mother. Do not let this selfish specimen convince you that you don't want this, just so he can keep you in the background for when he deigns to see you! What a lonely life you will have if you stick with him. Imagine being 50 with no children or grandchildren and no chance of them, and still not having 100% of this guy. Or if you break up and find you have missed your chance?

He is massively selfish, I wish you would see this.

3 years on still not letting you have a normal relationship with his son and be a part of family life is cruel and ridiculous and kind of degrading isn't it? don't you feel like some kind of dirty secret or bad thing that must be kept away from the purity of his family? it's cruel and totally unjustifiable. and frankly rather weird to have his life separate and secret from his son too.

as to wanting children really i hope this can be part of the fuel you need to find the oompf to get out of this horrible circle. you're 30. you're too old to be fannying around with men who are never going to commit to you and will wile away your years realistically. i can't see him suddenly after all this time deciding he wants to live together - he doesn't even want you as a real part of his son's life let alone as the mother of a new child. it sounds like he likes his compartmentalised life just fine and has no incentive to integrate its parts. i don't see this changing and by the sounds of it you've always wanted a family - surely it would be madness to sacrifice that to a man who gives you so little and frankly makes your life miserable a lot of the time regardless of the relieved good bits in between?

i'm 36 and have a son who is nearly 5. i'm single and have been since early on in the pregnancy. personally i wouldn't have wanted to leave it much later - i'll be 50 when ds is 19 as it is and i want to have time to enjoy a second burst of 'me' life (did loads when i was young and had a lot of freedom for a long time but would still like to have more adventuring to come later if i can find the energy). i wouldn't trade my son for my obsessive love of younger years. nor would i trade the independent, resourceful person i've become with my needy, clingy, younger self trying to get strength, love, worth from other people.

ime my lovely grandads love for me as a child and my love for my son are the only unconditional loves that i've known. the rest have all proved to be conditional and it has been how people, and i, have acted and treated others and how able they have been to recover from past hurts and angers that have put limits on love - not some transcendent variable, just simple choices and capacity to be loving in actions.

this is turning into a waffle sorry - keep getting distracted by supermario - wil come back.

Take the first step towards a better future by binning this knob, OP. Then take the second, and most important of all, which is promising yourself a whole year without dating or looking for a partner. You need to prioritize you, not some man and certainly not some ridiculous misguided idea of the vital importance of romantic love. Romantic love is simply not that important. It's nice if you find someone nice to do it with, but life is fine without it. And until you can accept that, you will go from one arsehole man to another, desperately optimistic and always getting hurt, because women who think romantic love is the most important thing in the world are a total magnet for shitheads - and actually off-putting to nice, sensible, decent men, who know that it's not such a big deal.

OP there is a very helpful thread, the Stately Homes thread, where people with difficult childhoods caused by their parent support each other. Why not have a read?

OK, glad i'm helping and not annoying you. fwiw i am quoting you just for the sake of clarity. i tend to go on a bit, so i'm using your words to order my thoughts.

You see, I'm still a firm believer that people are not inherently bad.

I agree with you, there are no "bad people", perhaps with the exception of born psychopaths who have no concept of empathy.

What I do believe is that every person wants security, acceptance and love.
Problem is though, a lot of people out there are taught utterly bizarre things about how to obtain them. For example: many abusers learned to obtain security by crippling their partner so badly that they can never "abandon" the abuser, because they no longer have the will to live/escape/etc. (! imagine staying in a r/s like that because the abuser "isn't a bad person"! and yet people do so all the time)

Now people can change the way they seek these things. But the number of people who manage to do so is tiny.

Usually this is because the extreme intensity of the abuse cycle (abuse -> honeymoon -> abuse -> honeymoon) is highly addictive, and "normal" love just doesn't cut it. Just like how for a heroin addict, normal life may be so crushingly dull that they just don't wish to bother with it. (Think about this from your own perspective too. This might be part of your addictive cycle.)

What I'm saying is, yes, everyone wants love and security; no-one is inherently bad. But not everyone tries to obtain it in a way that is sane, healthy and good. Whether they are "bad" or "good" is immaterial. Instead, the relevant question is: "is the way this person treats me going to build me up, or crush me over time?"

YOU are your own responsibility, and when someone is injuring you, you have a duty to yourself (and to the children you dream of, frankly), to remove yourself from their reach. No-one else is going to do it. And the intentions of the other person are actually not important; they may think they are being "good", but you will still end up crushed by them. The end result is the same, regardless of intention.

(Did part of you think, when you read that: "well that's what love does, it consumes you, it crushes you, that's what makes it so fearsome and beautiful"? if so, that's your mum talking, and her words are not true)

Can't he learn them, though? What if he would agree to counseling and be open to change?

It's like being with an alcoholic, love. Unless he takes himself off to the counsellor all on his own, under his own steam, and then works very very hard for a number of years, he will not change. All you can do is ask him to get help... and you've already done that, you've even gone to get help for yourself, and he hasn't moved a muscle. That really says it all.

Also bear in mind that when addicts are in recovery, most counsellors will tell them to break off any romantic relationships, and never resume them. Usually the advice is, wait till you've been sober 12 months, and then try again, with someone who never knew you before.

This is because abusive patterns are utterly utterly entrenched in these sorts of addictive, abusive relationships. You've already talked about how this man transfers his hate for his exwife straight onto you. Think about that! You are faceless to him. You are just another addictive substance, the same substance that his wife was once. Your heart, your intentions, your identity are meaningless to him. How utterly awful that is!

I am not saying this to hurt you: I can't see any hope for this guy, he is not going to be able to love you properly, not after what he has already demonstrated to you. He doesn't even see you as an individual: how can he change?

Personally I would advise you to go straight back to counselling, preferably with someone who has extensive experience of personality disorders and their fallout, and focus on yourself alone, not on the relationship. So many of your difficulties have to do with the things your mother taught you, and not necessarily with him. This post is already long, but I promise you I could go on for pages about the things I see in you that are a result of your mother's influence. The "good intentions make it OK" stuff, the wish to save and heal, the hope of redemption after making sacrifices, the lack of boundaries... all of it... i've been there, i've done it all in therapy and i'm still doing it today. There's light at the end of the tunnel, if you turn your gaze onto yourself.

When you are happier and a little more whole, things will start to fall into place. I really feel you need to detach from this man, and focus on yourself. Your life is so precious and so so brief. You deserve more than this horrid, exhausting misery.

Oikopolis,

I know I hold onto the hope/belief that my bf will recognize how the manner in which he seeks love is hurtful. It's been years now, though, and nothing has changed. I was hopeful that professional, objective help would shift things. My instincts tell me you're right, though. This forum has reinforced a lot. My fear now, though, is.....how will I change or shift my views on love? How will I ever be ready for marriage or children? Solidgold commented that I need to take a whole year working on myself. It seems it might be wise to abandon the vision I always had of myself as wife and mother. I guess I should just trust that things will work out? I guess I just have to take one thing at a time?

I know it sounds as though I'm addicted to the on-again, off-again romance. I am in love with the romance, but I really don't think I get something out of the on-again, off-again cycle. I feel beaten down and stressed, and it's definitely not a high, nor a highlight in my life. Im quite embarrassed of my behavior, actually. Someone called me a drama queen. My previous boyfriend and I started dating in high school, and we broke up in our mid-twenties. We broke up once. The similarity in the two relationships is truly my warped view on making love last and clinging to it. How clearly you've brought that to my attention!

Within this relationship, I've suspected and considered how my mother has influenced me. Up until the past few days, though, I failed to recognize the depth of that influence. When I was very a little girl, I had a shoebox under my bed of possessions I thought to be adult-like. I had a coffee mug, some Christmas ornaments, etc. My plan was to collect as much as I could so that I could move out at 18. I did move out at 18. I put myself through college and graduate school, and I bought my own house at 24. You see, I thought I overcame my dysfunctional childhood and succeeded! My definition of succeeding has been as naive as the shoe box under my bed.....

You said I'm faceless to him- that my heart and intentions and identity are disregarded by him. My goodness, you've validated my experience! Someone asked me a while ago what I expected from my post. I think what I wanted was for people to either validate my experience or to discredit it. I feel like I'm going crazy. One minute I feel like I deserve better and that things will never get better and that I'm wasting my time. The next minute I'm wondering if this experience could help me grow and be a more loving and understanding person. I think about how much I love him and can't bear the thought of letting him go. I go back and forth between wanting out and wanting to make it work.

Oikopolis, who, in your life, suffered from BPD? If you're ever bored, please feel free to go on about BPD..... I'm very interested.

I'm going to look for a new therapist tomorrow. I havent responded to my bf's texts or emails. I'm so sad. I get on here and re-read all these posts every time I'm tempted to respond. It feels impossible for me at times to believe that what I have/had with him is wrong. We really enjoy each other tremendously when the issues are ignored. I know you're right when you say that that means that the relationship isn't strong. But I think of his smile, his quirks, the way he handles himself (outside of quarrels), the way we both find the same sorts of things funny, how we both enjoy our private lives, wine, time on the couch, working out, books, tv shows, the way he thinks, his intellect, the way he walks, smells, the way he teases me, holds me, his nicknames for me, how wildly attracted we are to one another. I want to keep all of those things. I really do love him, and this is so hard to accept. I really don't want or wish this drama on anyone.

Swallowedafly, i have felt like a dirty secret. A part of me felt that i needed to be patient with him, though. I entered into the relationship while he was still married. Sometimes I feel that because I chose to stay with him through his grief (and before he was ready for a gf), that it means that I should understand and be compassionate about when he feels ready to take the next step. I did meet his son (finally) mid january. He says he now wants to include me as a bigger part of his life. Like you, I question how long this next "phase" of the relationship will take, though. I've been angry and bitter about the amount of time it's taken him to even slightly integrate me into his life. This is an example of how I've wondered if this relationship can help me grow. I'd like to hear the rest of your story.

I've shared my experience with only two close girlfriends-- one whom i trust completely and the other whom I just relate with. I've shared the most with the former. No one in my family knows my struggle. I'm terribly private. This is the first time I've ever posted anything on the Internet. I'm not even sure how I found this forum. I didn't even realize it was for British mothers (to which i am neither) until after I created a username. Ty all again.

Btw, Ty, mynameisnt, for linking your post. Also, I'll check out the stately home posts tomorrow....

Marie, I think that finding this forum and posting on here will be the start of something very good and very real. The ladies on here know their stuff.
Having come from a very unstable background myself, I know what it is to find it very hard to deal with stability. It is a cycle and I think right now, you are at the low point where you really really want it to end.
The problem I always have is when I reach somewhere stable, I find myself looking for ways to liven things up a bit cos I'm so unable to cope with it.
Oik, what you said about feelings not being reality, I've been in dbt for four months and they have totally failed to convey what you just did in one sentence.

that veering between this is awful i have to get out and actually maybe i should be more compassionate, stronger, more patient, loving etc.... does that in itself remind you of your childhood and relationship with your mother? was there a swinging between seeing she was a nightmare and feeling guilty for feeling that way about your own other?

thing is a child needs it's mother, needs to love her and believe she is safe in order to survive emotionally and not be paralysed with terror at her own vulnerability. so the child learns to over ride it's instincts in a way i guess, learns to love in the face of abuse or neglect or crazy behaviour. there's also that defense of splitting that children employ seeing goodmum/badmum almost as two different people and loving the idealised version whilst treating the real bad stuff as separate and other.

there's something of an echo in all of this in your relationship with this man.

there's also the simple reality of being trained in the act of loving someone who gives you very little and being used to love feeling difficult and either totally unreciprocated or reciprocated in a strange and selfish way.

my two year drama relationship was, in retrospect, very much a re-enactment of my relationship with my mother (trying to get blood from a stone springs to mind) and the intensity with which i wanted to make it work, wanted to make them see that they were not being fair, were hurting me etc, the wishing they could change and hanging on to that hope - it was all just like my relationship with my mother as a child in many ways.

sometimes we reenact things with all the intensity of that first relationship with the desperate desire (albeit unconscious) that this time we will get a different outcome, this time we can make it work, we won't fail this time and we'll get the prize.

i do think that there are lessons or patterns we draw into our lives over and over until we learn from them and realise what we've been doing and choose to stop.

you're doing a lot of valuable reflection now and figuring things out. things really can get better.

as for giving up your dreams of being a wife and mother - no you don't have to do that. say you did end this relationship and take a year off getting to know yourself and breaking the cycle of this relationship reenactment. at the end of that you'd be 31 and if you wanted a relationship you'd be in a good position to chose a good one. and you know even if you don't find the right man there are still options for having children - you are in a strong financial position and you're aiming to get yourself into a strong emotional position too. if it came to it and you wanted to you could have a child on your own, or you may decide you don't want children. the future is open and there are so many options and possibilities once you free yourself of this situation and start putting you and your healing first.

yes there is a sense of that in reading your posts and even the thread title - that you're still trying to attain the unobtainable and love is some prize that is hard to get to and requires wading through difficulty and holding out hope and wishing and hoping... that's a child with an emotionally unavailable mother speaking. that view of love surely comes directly from that relationship. imagine your mother had been loving, stable, easy to access and you never had to doubt her love as it was just a free, easy, given you grew up in. would you feel the same way about love? would you be with this man?

There's a whole lake of therapy issues going on here. Marie, I'm glad your thread has attracted strong and wise replies :) Perhaps it signifies a point, for you, where you'll be able to make the very most of your forthcoming therapy; recognising the depth of parental influence is perhaps the hardest step. Once you understand it, therapy can take on a new dimension. It's a bit like choosing a course of learning: instead of a degree, or a pilot's licence, this course leads to a rounded & balanced, adult personality and the future that goes with it.

You got your degree; your career; your house. You are amazing! You've done this - and maintained it - despite the shifting, unstable, foundations to your life which would have left many others flailing on quicksand. You absolutely do have the right to fulfil the rest of your dreams, with joy and confidence. The right therapy will provide the tools you need to build your 'house'. 30 is by no means too late

Just going back to Oiko's point about feelings: I learned a little three-point evaluation tool for feelings. To use it, you must accept that you're not obliged to act on any feeling immediately. People can wait for a response; you can wait. You've already got that.
Once I've named a strong feeling, I ask myself: Is it logical? Is it appropriate? Is it helpful? Only when it scores a full three does it deserve action. Otherwise, I recognise its worth in telling me something about myself and the situation but I don't do what it seemed to demand. Not sure if that'll make sense to you on reading it, but perhaps you can put it in your toolbox for future reference.

You're coming across as a really lovely person. Please do start putting yourself first so you come to love, respect & admire the person we all see in your posts.