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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Anyone seen the new MN section on surviving an affair?

273 replies

Dozer · 19/01/2012 21:18

The info on there does not accord with the advice oft given on here.

I don't like it, smacks of pleasing-your-man.

OP posts:
Thumbwitch · 24/01/2012 07:45

The whole thing (Surviving an Affair) is still there, but I think that that particular section has been taken down ("Is it ever ok to have an affair?").
Does it make sense yet?

Downunderdolly · 24/01/2012 07:51

Been following the thread as of personal interest and I believe that they have taken down some of the more 'objectionable' content but not more.

I think the problem is that when trying to pracee a very emotive and emotionally charged issue (which is by its nature individual in the sense that "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way") a very unsatisfactory piece of copy is produced irrespective and in this instance it was particularly trite and unfortunate. Given the target reader would be still reeling and trying to recover from an affair there is much danger in trotting out re-hashed and skewed advice in such short form and it ends up being very Daily Mail Lite.

I have close friends who are in the process of recovering from husbands affairs and it is a very very vulnerable, angry and difficult time - of course they know that to properly move on they ultimately need to be able to 'forgive' but it is getting over the anger, loss of what they believed they had, betrayal and sheer rage that is the tricky part even if the will is there. To suggest that they just need to forgive move on and take up a 'sport' etc is patronising and fairly offensive.

My own husband left me and my 2 year old a year ago for what turned out to be another woman. I absolutely know that I made a few mistakes in my marriage - largely down to my faith that my husband had my back and would understand and forgive my unhappiness surrounding a relocation to the other side of the world and the loss of two pregnancies in reasonably traumatic circumstances. If I could go back and change any behaviour or indeed give advice (if asked) to friends given my experience I would say that you should remember to treat your husband/partner as you would a friend and remember that there is of course an open door in any partnership and anyone of the two people involved could walk through it at any time. I accept some culpability for taking a few things for granted but I absolutely do not and would never see it as my duty in an adult relationship with young children to be a Jerry Hall 'whore in the bedroom, angel in the kitchen' type of wife lest my lovely husband be lured off by some young popsy.

The reality is that my husband chose not to talk to me about his apparent wretched unhappiness (which manifested itself by seeming...errr...var var happy), chose to develop a relationship with a colleague from the time my son was 6 months old, chose to tell me how amazing I was, chose to pretend to be a caring and lovely husband, chose to arrange an amazing 40th birthday and tell me how myself and his son were his life and then chose 4 weeks later in the middle of IVF that we had chosen to embark upon to leave me for her. So. Not obvious signs of a marriage in trouble and frankly anyone that tells me I could have prevented it by fishing out my suspenders and going surfing with him whilst pouring him a beer on his return from work would be in very real danger.

I would say, however, that before I went through this, if someone was telling me my story I would have sympathised but privately thought 'you must have known, surely, you are a smart woman, no-one's husband leaves without warning signs'. So I don't judge the few people who have alluded to this on here. I just think there for the grace of god go you as I would not wish the pain, bewilderment and pure head-fuck of being suddenly left upon anyone.

SantaIsAnAnagramOfSatan · 24/01/2012 07:57

i'm so sorry downunder! my sister's ex husband started cheating on her whilst she was having ivf that he had persuaded her to have. she found out whilst she was pregnant. i'm sure she had been difficult to be around in the previous year or so with fertility problems, the hormones of ivf, fears of never being a mother etc. does that make it her fault? no, of course not. it seems unfathomable that a man would be cheating on someone who is going through ivf at their persuasion but sadly it does happen.

to suggest to people who have been cheated on by someone that deceitful and selfish and without care for their wife or child/potential children that they could have prevented the affair is ridiculous and hurtful.

the only thing that could have prevented it was a personality transplant in the perpetrator.

Downunderdolly · 24/01/2012 08:11

Santa, thank you for your kind words and I am so sorry your sister had to go through something similar. Unfortunately I think there is a certain kind of person (not necessarily a man but often) that can compartmentalise 2 lives until a 'tipping' point or revelation. If they go the 'other way', they then have to demonise everything they had before to justify it. It does indeed seem that they have a reverse personality transplant and become this stranger who as another poster commented are dead in the eyes. In my case, this came when after having egg collection (now ex came along to 'do his bit' which I took as a 'good' sign as I thought he was having a breakdown or something and we had agreed to put any resulting embryos in freezer) and afterwards bleeding and crying in recovery in my green gown, he looked at me and said 'the problem is I just don't feel anything for you anymore so you may as well stop crying'. It was like an episode of a bad body snatcher movie when 5 days before he had been telling me how much he loved me and if the IVF didn't work my son and I were all he needed and we were his family even if it never got bigger etc etc.....

I have spent the last 15 months trying to make sense of the impossible. I am not quite there but realise I know have to accept that I will never make sense of it and that it is fruitless to waste further energy upon it. However, I suggest a basque and a date night now and again would not have changed the unfortunate outcome ; )

I hope your sister is recovering - tis a horrible horrible thing xxx

Thumbwitch · 24/01/2012 08:12

Dolly, that's terrible! Whereabouts are you "down under"?

There are some awful selfish pricks out there. :(

Downunderdolly · 24/01/2012 08:19

Hey - I'm Northern Beaches Sydney. The lovely legal system over here means that despite fact that I was only here for 2 years before he nacked off, have never worked over here (and my old profession involved knowing media contacts in depth), and have no family over here I have to stay here until son is 18.......interestingly my ex and I had agreed that we would go back to europe at end of 2012 which I know he was less keen on than me so perhaps it was an extreme avoidance tactit!! (we met, married and conceived in London but came here when 7 months pregnant which turned out to be a bit of an error but so in love was I, I didn't think to look at what would happen if we split - ; ( - sorry bit of a mini thread hi-jack xx

Thumbwitch · 24/01/2012 08:24

Have PM'd you, Dolly :)
I'm in a similar situation to you pre-split - Aussie DH, DS born in the UK, moved out here when DS was 20mo. So far we're doing ok but who knows what's around the corner!

Downunderdolly · 24/01/2012 08:49

thanks lovey - will get back to you - gosh I love mumsnet, people are so kind xx

seachange · 24/01/2012 08:57

Downunderdolly I'm so sorry, what an awful thing to have happened to you, esp in a foreign country and at a v stressful time in your life anyway. It's so hard that you "have" to stay, so far from any support. Is that so that xH can have contact with your child?

I too can pinpoint some of the mistakes I made in my marriage, but it is absolutely not my responsibility how H chose to deal with his dissatisfaction (his affair started when DC3 was 2 months old). Ego, opportunism, thoughtlessness, selfishness, deceitfulness, self-entitlement, plus a woman willing to accommodate a married man... None of these things is it possible to prevent or fix in another person, unfortunately.

Downunderdolly · 24/01/2012 09:09

Thanks Seachange and well said - I am now over a year later realising that it his personality and his choice. The problem for so many women is that it is so very hard to come to terms with the fact that the person you literally bet your life and your child(ren)'s life on is essentially 'a bad egg'. Without sounding like I have tickets on myself, I believe I am fairly intelligent, used to think I was a good judge of people, and to realise that the person I fell hopelessly in love with is a 'bad egg' is a hard thing to get my head around.

Like you, I will absolutely learn from my mistakes but whilst I hope to have another great love one day and whilst I will enter it with my eyes a little more open, I will not assume that unless I am a perfect wife/partner in every way 'he' will leave. I don't think life partners are prizes that have to be appeased and 'won'. Mutual respect and care and love is needed and I will take on board things I can do better but I will hopefully always assume they have my back and not someone other woman on their back.....

I posted this quote on another thread but there is a Hemmingway quote I think of often which is ' The world breaks everyone, and afterward, some are strong at the broken places'. I intend for my heart to be stronger both to receive and give love. Time will tell. Good luck to everyone in the same horrid situation xx

SantaIsAnAnagramOfSatan · 24/01/2012 11:07

that's a nightmare downunder! what a cruel law - man abandons, family, family aren't allowed to return to home country where the mother has support - it's shocking - like being a hostage.

hope you can enjoy your life there when things have settled down from the fallout. if my sister is anything to go by there is a lot of fallout - so gutting when you thought your life was going in a certain direction and have made the choice to have children based on that only to have it totally blown apart and be left to pick up the pieces. she had a hell of a lot of anger and resentment and hurt and sense of injustice to process.

your attitude sounds great Smile i'm sure you'll come out stronger, wiser and happier at the other end.

AnyFucker · 24/01/2012 11:47

Is anyone thinking the posts on this thread alone are worth 1000 times more than the so-called "guide" ?

AnyFucker · 24/01/2012 11:47

anyone else

foggyandcoldoutthere · 24/01/2012 12:09

Me! - Have only posted once, but wanted to say that if what my fuckwit, lying tw-t of a partner DH was missing was a 24-yr-old escort, not sure (short of life threatening plastic surgery) what I could have done about it - I am in my 50s and 5ft nothing! Of course, if I took to going with to the football, I am sure all would come right Hmm

caramelwaffle · 24/01/2012 12:10

Yes, Anyfucker, me.

PeppermintPasty · 24/01/2012 12:15

Well AF, perhaps MNHQ have played a blinder and it was all a double bluff to get MNetters to write the REAL guide!

Grin
AnyFucker · 24/01/2012 12:20

You might have it there, PP !

dang it Grin

seachange · 24/01/2012 13:22

I wonder if MN have pulled their punches wrt this section, as there are many women on this site who have had affairs, and they don't want to alienate them? There always seems to be a few "I'm really sad my affair has ended, help me get over OM" type threads.

Probably not that much thought went into it, but I can see why MN wouldn't want to say it's not your fault, all people who have affairs are selfish bastards, etc etc.

PeppermintPasty · 24/01/2012 13:23

Hmmm. No, I don't think so either...

GeraldineMumsnet · 28/01/2012 13:40

Hello, wanted to flag that we've amended the emotional affairs page and republished it, and that work's in progress on redoing/expanding surviving an affair, but that it won't be republished until next week earliest. Will post again once it's live.

Thanks to everyone who has posted here. And a general and belated apology: responsibility for commissioning and editing the Relationships content was mine. To say this thread, and the others, have given me pause for thought about how I misjudged the tone/content in the affairs articles would be a massive understatement.

Clearly, we'll be more vigilant in double - and triple - checking that our content properly reflects the wisdom and tone of the Talk boards. That, despite these articles failing to do so, is our overriding intention.

I've been off work for the past week - minus laptop - hence my delay posting. And I'm afraid I have to post and run now. But will, of course, check this thread at some other point this weekend, or latest Monday.

VirgoGrr · 28/01/2012 16:18

Anniegetyourgun I think your "vacillating twit" comment was on my thread (nced) from New Years Day about my now TBExH deciding he wanted some 'space' and many reasons why I was inadequate. Along with all the other fantastic support, it really helped pick me up from devastation and bolster me for a fresh start.

I didn't read the 'advice' but from a freshly separated pov, I think it sounded like a load of balls. TBH, I think by the time you've worked yourself up to posting about a potential breakup, you've kind of decided, you just need a bit of a push. I've moved and doing ok, many positive plans for the future. Smile

VirgoGrr · 28/01/2012 16:27

Have now located that quote on the 'Emotional Affair' page, so it's kind of quoting Annie out of context, I think.

GeraldineMumsnet · 30/01/2012 09:31

@VirgoGrr

Have now located that quote on the 'Emotional Affair' page, so it's kind of quoting Annie out of context, I think.

Morning, we've removed that quote.

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