I now feel as if I have no hope and I really don't want to go on any more

[Punkatheart]

Firstly - I have been drinking...although because I never drink, it is two glasses of wine...but I do feel tiddly.

In July, my OH left me. We have had a bit of a tough time...I was diagnosed with lymphoma in 2003 and our teenage daughter has been very troublesome. But I didn't expect him to be so cowardly...to simply walk away.

I have tried to be patient and kind. He has said that he has problems and now needs counselling. But today I called him to tell him that we have a very bad problem with rats in the garden...please could he sort it out. I have had so much to deal with and I really feel at the end of my tether. We have animals and a house to maintain - I am finding it all too much.

Basically, he told me that he is going away for the weekend. My daughter is also going out on New Years Eve to a sleepover. I have decided really that I have had enough. Thinking about it carefully, I think Beachy Head would be the best option.

I know that I sound pathetic - but I heard today that my blood test results are also not good and that I may have to come off my drugs, that have really been helping.

I have tried.....but the thought that he has put himself first...he was once such a lovely man, so unselfish.....

I feel so alone.

Punk-how are you doing today?

Hello lovely people. Well my daughter has been so sweet and attentive. I hide the worst of things from her - which is why, when she went away, it seemed to all come out in such a sense of desperation.

I know that a lot of people said don't engineer a meeting, but as he and I live ten minutes away, an accidental meeting is not impossible. I just met him in a shop and he asked us if we wanted to go for a coffee. My daughter was OK...a little sulky, but not traumatised. I know her and it did not break trust, as she simply assumed he was there by chance.

I told her in front of him that dad was unwell and would be going into counselling. Our time spent was warm and it felt like a family. He can now carry that into counselling, connect us with good things.

Another rule I broke is the 'don't show him you are weak'...the old 'be strong'. I am not and I cannot lie, so on the phone to him earlier (completely out of earshot of my daughter) I told him how desperate I was on New Year's Eve. But I then said that of course it was not his problem. He contradicted me and was upset. 'It is. I want it to be.'

I know this may be according to how most people would 'play' things but after 20 years together, we know each other. I must see hope or at least a resolution and if these things help us all, then I must do them. My daughter was fine when she came back and we sat together watching Endeavour.

Thank you all again for your support and your kindness. I can honestly say that it has really helped and if any of you ever reach this sense of darkness, please talk to me. I am so used to helping other people and I feel uncomfortable about being down here in the gutter. Most friends have said that I have been too kind to my OH and words like arsehole have been used frequently, even by my heavily religious neighbour. But he is a sad man, he looks rough and he does indeed want some resolution to this. It is limbo that is disturbing much more than a final separation. The memory of how lovely we have been as a family and the frustration of knowing how we could be again. Now it is in the hands of the professionals.

I take a deep breath and think of life now one minute at a time. Listen to me - I think of life.

I think of life.

I think you did a really wrong thing there tending to your ex's wishes instead of your daughter's, and it sounds like engineering a meeting so you could see him and pretend that things are OK. How do you know you haven't broken her trust? Just because you've hidden it from her doesn't mean the trust isnt' broken. This sort of high-handed behaviour by parents does actually cause rifts, even small ones, in relationships between parents and children.

I also think you should listen to the words of the people around you about your husband. Your kindness and lack of anger towards a man who has done you an enormous amount of harm has caused you to be driven to the brink of suicide. This is not a good way for things to be.

Sorry to be harsh but you are still putting him first, in front of yourself and in front of your daughter. He doesn't deserve it, and you need to be sensible.

He's not mentally ill, he's a prick. Add that to your list of things that people have said in assessment of him. If I sound angry, it's at him, putting on this poor-me act, to gain your sympathy so he can treat you like rubbish and you'll feel sorry for him for it.

I clearly haven't expressed myself well - he hasn't put a poor me act on at all. I can see his pain, but he has not tried to us it as an excuse. I also have been very very angry at times. I can assure you I did not arrange the meeting for him alone and I did not pretend that all was OK. But it was a pleasant afternoon.

A mother knows her child and I know mine extremely well. Her only comments was 'I hope he gets better soon' and 'He's chosen some horrible shoes again, mum.' Last night she slept better and she actually mentioned him this morning. Trust has not been broken at all. I do not consider it high-handed to do my best for all of us, if there is ever a chance of us being a family once more. If it made us all feel better, where on earth is the harm?

Whatever happens, it is important that she have a relationship with her father. Yes he has been a prick and very cowardly - but he has been an exceptional man and father for 20 years who has worked his backside off to look after us, so he does have some goodwill stored up. He has had a breakdown and sorry, but I WILL help him, if I can.

Relationships are complex and not many people have a 20 year relationship - it has its own difficulties and joys. There may still have an unpleasant end of course and yes, I may be left completely bereft. But if I didn't try? That would be worse.

If you want to try, then do it between you and him, and don't use your daughter as a means to see him.

Who was the afternoon pleasant for, you said your daughter was sulking.

I feel for you. It sounds like both of you are suffering here. It isnt impossible for both people to be ill at the same time, but it is obviously going to make it so much harder to resolve. It seems you both need someone to lean on at the moment, and while you want to do it together, his reaction seems to be to pull away and be unable to cope. It doesnt mean he is a nasty or cruel man, and I can understand where you are coming from.

It is a lot for a 14yo to be able to cope with, life in general is bloody hard work for most of us at that stage in our life, without the pressure of both our parents being unwell.

Are there any other family members around who can help out?

She is a teenager..so the head down and shoe shuffling is normal. But she relaxed after a while....it was just awkward initially.

It's a tough time and I do have family, but far away.

I do not use my daughter to get to see him...you are completely wrong. If I want to see him, then he would be here like a shot. There would be no need for deception. He has said repeatedly that he loves us very much. But he cannot cope and feels trapped...that he why he needs a counsellor.

My daughter has had an exceptionally close and loving relationship with him in the past. It is important that she doesn't grow up with fury and bitterness in her heart. God God, that's what I am trying to avoid...I am not some selfish needy woman desperate to see my man at all costs.

A bit of fury at this juncture is absolutely reasonable for her and for you.

I'm sorry to press this punk but you were suicidal at the way he'd treated you, yet you still aren't angry at him and are talking about supporting him, and talking about fury at his behaviour as if it's the worst thing possible. It isn't. Killing yourself over what he's done would have been though.

You can't support someone who is actively doing you harm as he is. It will damage you even more. You have to put your interests and your daughter's interests first, the way he is putting his own interests first.

But he wouldn't come 'like a shot' Punk. This is how your thread started, when he said he wouldn't come because he was away for the weekend. I asked you where he was, but you haven't said.

You haven't responded to Vicar either, who has made so many carefully worded and thoughtful posts to you about getting help for your mental health, which is sound advice from someone with her skills and experience - and is the normal advice even a layperson would give someone who tells us that she is on the brink of suicide.

A lot of us who've responded are in relationships of longer duration than yours - and also have teenagers. Therefore we understand the dynamics of long relationships and also how difficult it is for teenagers and parents to navigate these years in their lives. Not one person has agreed that it was a good idea to dupe your daughter into seeing her father - it is a breach of trust and her boundaries, which were there for a reason.

I don't think you'll get anyone either who thinks that someone who is genuinely suicidal should carry on without professional help for her mental health. Is it that on reflection you feel that you weren't suicidal after all, or is it that you think people are wrong to give this advice?

To the last two questions: Of course I was suicidal. I was quite offended that you would think otherwise. Good grief, how could anyone lie about such a thing? I am still very blue but clouds are clearing slowly. I do not ever think it wrong that others give advice...but no one can blindly follow all the advice of a number of people. There has to be a knowing - of yourself, of the situation that is weighed up.

Yes, he didn't come to me when I was low...but then I was talking about rats, not desperation. He felt that it was a practical matter and that he could sort it out when he came back. He later apologised for not seeing between the lines...men are not the best at this and of course, he is more self-involved than normal at the moment.

I find it odd that some have laboured the point of where he was. He was at his stepsister's house and her family and surely there is nothing unusual in being invited there for New Year? There is no other woman, if that is the implication.

I know that the point I reached was horrendous and yes, it says something for my mental health at that point. Sadly, one of the side effects of my drug (Interferon) can be depression. I have now made an appointment to see my specialists in London, for a review and also to see their counsellor. It will be instant, rather than 12-16 week waiting on the NHS. These are positive steps and I am doing them for my daughter. A GP is not the answer....I have actually tried them in recent past and provision has been poor and slipshod. I called my GP several times and left messages to call about anti-depressants...no one called back and I was in such a sorry state that I saw it as a sign that I was not worth helping. I can see now in retrospect that was the depression and not the reality. But it can fog things. My specialist team need to ascertain if my depression is reactive (understandable) or clinical as a result of the chemo.

Sorry - but she is my daughter and I can see the pain she is in without her father. She hasn't been sleeping or eating properly. It helped her yesterday and we have now have had a good talk about it. I really cannot see how bumping into her father in the Oracle in Reading - when we both live less than ten minutes away from it - is a major trauma. I even took her to one side and asked if it is was OK at the time...if she had said no, then I would have marched away immediately.

Of course I am listening to the people who have taken the time to talk to a random stranger and give advice, worry and step away from their busy lives to offer help. I could kiss them all and would help all of them right back, in a heartbeat. But I am puzzled that I am now being attacked for trying to deal with the situation the best I can, knowing all the participants as well as I do. Yes, I know that one of my major flaws is to give too much, to leave myself vulnerable. But that is me and I will never be hard, no matter what happens. It does not make me a martyr or an idiot I think.

Protecting your own interests and taking care of yourself when someone is harming you isn't being hard, it's a basic skill that every human being needs to have. It's a shame you've decided to view it in such a negative way, punk.

If it was only you to worry about, then I would support your choice to continue down this path, as in the end it's your life and only you can live it and experience it. However you have a daughter. Your approach to this has a) made you suicidal and thus put your daughter at risk of losing her mother (I believe you were serious) and b) is setting your daughter a very bad example about allowing men to treat her badly. It is not a morally superior approach to allow someone to hurt you and keep supporting them, it's the opposite.

Your daughter is actually showing you the right way to behave here, by cutting off from her father when he is behaving like this. Could I suggest you follow her lead.

punk I am a serial lurker but your thread has made me so sad.

It is easy to make judgements about a relationship from outside. As you have said, after 20 years together, things are much more complex than you can possibly convey and my feeling is that only you will know what is right and wrong with regard to how you interact with your OH and DD.

I am delighted to have got to the post where you say you think of life.

I hope you will continue to be able to take each minute, hour and day at a time. I know it's a tired old cliche but focus on the fact that you have come through such a lot and raised a caring young lady who adores you.

Also, if I may hijack vicarinatutu is one wise poster.

Punk, I just wanted to say how glad and relieved I feel to see you posting again today and that you feel the clouds are clearing slowly. x

I don't necessarily think that being hard is a negative thing, thunder. It is just that I am rarely capable of it. A flaw perhaps but my trait nevertheless.

Thank you spud and Doc. Until the death bell tolls for our relationship, then I must do the best for us as a unit. There are a lot of issues to consider, so much more complicated when one person is physically unwell. Bloody illness.

Punk... I'm glad you're feeling better. You're not being attacked here, there's nobody posting who doesn't want a good outcome for you. That doesn't mean that people will nod their heads at everything you say and do and it wouldn't be at all useful if they did.

I'm in agreement with ThunderboltsandLightening about your daughter and the deception you've used in your tactics to make your family 'whole' again. I'm actually saddened on your daughter's behalf. If you know her so well and know what's best for her... why the deception? Why not just ask her to come with you to meet her father? You can't know that your daughter didn't mind, she might have been upset but willing to do anything and put up with anything for your benefit. Your daughter is 14, not stupid. She has the right to her feelings and you should have respected them.

Your husband didn't exactly need to 'read between the lines' given how desperate you were at the weekend. If he had wanted to, he could have put aside his own problems to come and spend time with you, even if he couldn't fix the rat problem. He might well be an exceptional man but his behaviour towards you hasn't been at all exceptional and there are no excuses for that, you needed him and he knew it. No wonder your daughter is angry.

I hope that he will be there for you in the future as that seems to be what you want more than anything else. I personally think that some 'insurance' for you in the form of a coping strategy should he leave again, would be of benefit - as would some real life professional help with the way you are feeling.

I wish you well, Punk, truly.

i am glad that you are at least acknowledging that you have depression and that you are taking steps to see someone for this punk. That is absolutely the right thing to do. It may need to be medically managed.

I also really dont think you are being attacked, and its a shame that you feel that way. All is see when i read the posts that you may not agree with, is a wealth of well intentioned and sensible advice.

I also have a 23 year relationship, which has produced two children - my DD is the same age as yours, my son is 20. I understand the desperation to hang on in there, but what you have done is invested the whole of yourself in your husband. He shouldnt be your reason to live, or not.

You still appear desperate to please him, desperate to defend him, when he has for what ever reasons, done wrong by you. He has chosen one hell of a time to go and find himself in counselling....of course he will have had his own pressures and problems to deal with, but he hasnt done any of this the right way. Not many people just bail in such a cowardly way, with no warning. correct me if im wrong. This is why his actions have prompted such reactions from others, your friends, your neighbours - you are the only one reluctant to acknowledge it because you still want to defend him.

I understand why you felt desolate. This time of year is a bugger for anyone with depression, and you do have depression, which like you say, is understandable. The important thing is that you acknowledge why, recognise it, get treatment for it.
It wont make all the bad things go away. But it will restore a sense perhaps of some perspective.

You seem "scared" to allow yourself any anger in your husbands actions. Do you think that if you tow the line, be a good wife, simper and soothe him he will come back? (ask yourself) You should be allowed some anger at him. Anger would be normal.

what about couples counselling? i think you both need to be honest with one another - and i dont think thats happened yet on either side.

I am truly glad that you have found some resolve to keep on living, being a mother to a daughter who needs you. You are so much more than just his wife.

We have already had relationship counselling - or at least we started the process and it was unproductive. He could not answer the question: What could be done to make this better? He simply kept asserting that he wanted to be alone. At that time, I was very very angry. I have expressed myself to him very clearly and in assertive terms - told him that he is cowardly and selfish etc. I have not held back. It is a completely false impression of me that I am simpering or trying to please. I have asked him to go into counselling - it took a long time to persuade him that he was screwed up but he has at last accepted that something has snapped. It was also something his daughter wanted him to do, to 'make him better.'

The anger has been expressed for month after month on my part and now is time for sensible and intelligent action on his part. He cannot be honest with me in the sense that he doesn't know why this has happened - so singular counselling is the right path at this stage. But if later, it requires us to go in - then that is what we will do.

The difference is, I am now talking about the future......what needs to be done in the future. That crept up on me.

I am not a wife. I have never married him. I am not keen on marriage. So your image of me in a pinny (perhaps) is entirely wrong. I am not trying to please but I would like to give this a chance. If it fails, then I cannot control that and I will grieve long and hard. It is terrifying, but will have to be faced.

If anyone who knew me heard you say 'simper and soothe' they would laugh....I have never done either in any relationship. I am a fiery person and usually very independent. But I am lower than at any time in my life and undertstandably vulnerable. That is not a male-female issue - but one of the human condition. I have told him that both my daughter and I will step away to let him have professional help. If he needs to talk about issues in counselling, then he can talk to me if he feels the need, by email or phone. The meeting in town was something for him to hold onto, to let him see what he will lose.

I have been deeply honest with him but he is still too locked down to understand himself. Let someone else do the unpicking. The limbo is inevitable but I have already set the boundaries: I do not want him as a friend. It is all or nothing. I do want to get on with my life and I have things to achieve that do not involve him. I have perhaps developed co-dependency in certain ways and this does often come with serious illness, when one partner at periods has to step in as carer. It has altered the balance of things and has been a source of great frustration. We have been less equal than we should.

I will be the bigger person now. I have not been passive but now I must concentrate on keeping well mentally or physically, looking after my daughter and maintaining a purpose.

What's your financial position like punk if you split?

Hey punk

False hope is not good but I thought I would tell you my dh left me after 23 years of marriage. There was another woman involved but...the primary cause of him leaving was inability to cope and depression. Unfortunately I 'took to my bed' for a good few months and life was grim (I had various physical difficulties as well that the over whelming depression exaggerated). Throughout I told everyone that he was a good man who was making a bad mistakes, poor choices, and that he was depressed and unhappy.

Well, he is back now. Sorry to say it is not all roses but perhaps one day things may be good.

While he was away I also manipulated my teenagers into seeing their dad. It was wrong, you and I both know that manipulating a teen to do something they really do not want to do is the thin end of a huge wedge. But, even now a few years down the line I am glad I did it. It was the tentative building of bridges between them and him that began with these meetings. One thing I am sure of, it would not have been as 'easy' for him to return had they not accepted him in the small ways I 'organised'. The eldest I think would have just carried on not seeing him for ever - he is nearly as stubborn as me!

Punk, I think we have both done things wrong - but I truly understand where your actions and thoughts have sprung from.

BUT, NOW THEN! .

When are you seeing these drs? What steps are you taking to keep yourself safe until you see them? You need to consider having a another utterly black spell...what will be your strategies to survive it? You must use this spell of clearer thinking to plan you know. That deep black pit will not disappear overnight - shame!

Perhaps instead of dwelling on what has been past people here could help you plan for the future? The immediate future anyway.

xx

Hi Punk,

Hope you are feeling a bit brighter.

I am just a bit worried that you are basing your whole being on your man. I think your feeling happier because you saw him and feel you might get back together but maybe you should be prepared for him letting you down again and not clinging so hard to him.. If he gives you no hope what them? Please try and concentrate on you and your daughter. Then if he turns the light off you will not feel as bad as you have done.

If he has had a breakdown then I can see why your trying to help him. You love him and it's a natural thing to want to help somebody you love. Do you know it definitely is a breakdown? What has brought it on? What job does he do? Could there possibly be another woman?

Sorry, Punk, just got a bit worried as this disappear out of my active post, so just posting so I can find the thread again.

Hope that you are doing ok today?

I am OK thank you, OhGod. Spending time with my daughter and animals, making the best of things.

Hi punk. Glad you're hanging in there. Whilst our situations are very different I'm seeing my DH in your descriptions of your partner. Sad to see someone in a similar situation but nice to know I'm not alone. X x

Thank you Lady Medea. Both of us seem to be involved in something of a Greek tragedy, but you have a lovely name! Yes, my OH is very keen now to go into counselling on his own - but in pursuit of my sanity, I must detach for a while. My daughter detached some time ago.

I send you hugs across cyber space.

xx

Punk, I think there are a lot of people out here thinking about you and wishing you strength to get through all of the shit you are going through just now. You will manage.