Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

men do confuse love and sex

210 replies

simplesimon · 03/11/2003 10:44

Sneaking out of the shadows I suppose I am asking the Dads something although I can see it is a topic that has been covered before.

I love my wife she loves me but we have not made love in 6 years.

I think what scares me is the idea that she does not fancy me. More than that perhaps she is seeing someone else.

Help.

OP posts:
FairyMum · 01/12/2003 14:09

I agree with Twinkie and I think she is making such a good point about how this will affect your son. Children pick up on these things pretty quickly. If you never touch her, do you never have family group-hugs? IMO, family group-hug should be a daily occurence. A child must be cuddled and must see his parents cuddle. Your child learns from you. He will learn from your arguements about how to resolve arguments and he will learn how to be affectionate. The cold war between you and your wife sounds very unhealthy.
My advise is that if you want to stay with your wife, then at least have an affair. Sounds like you need a good shag!

StressyHead · 01/12/2003 14:16

message withdrawn

M2T · 01/12/2003 14:20

SS - What do you see when you read your posts?? I see someone who is giving up before they have put up a fight. How can you expect your DW to know how serious this is UNLESS YOU PUT IT BLUNTLY!

I think she is depressed and I think there are serious underlying issues here that yhou have to deal with SS.

Now stop wasting time writing posts on here and deleting half of them.... go write your wife a letter!!!!!!!!!!

StressyHead · 01/12/2003 14:25

message withdrawn

simplesimon · 01/12/2003 14:31

I have fought and bloody fought, there is not anything that I have not tried, for maybe 2, maybe 3 years. I have tried to spend time with her, I have tried to tell her in everyway sjort of sky-writing that I love her and that I am very very confused and unhappy and that I know that she is too. I am exhausted and at my wits end. No one can fight all the time and not eventually want to give up, but I am still scared of losing.

I cannot not post because I end up offending people and being accused of being a "Troll" and if I stay I am a wimp.

Thanks this is just the support I needed.

OP posts:
StressyHead · 01/12/2003 14:38

message withdrawn

simplesimon · 01/12/2003 14:51

Stressy, I've done it, I've bloody done all of it.

I've written a letter, it acheived nothing, nothing at all. I can say that about all these suggestions - that is not me being a wimp, not me being defeatist, it is me at the end of my ideas, trying to ask for help rather than get angry, turning to some complete strangers and crying my eyes out.

OP posts:
Rhubarb · 01/12/2003 14:51

SS, we don't know you yet already I feel like walking on eggshells. When someone confronts you how do you react? Perhaps your wife feels she cannot talk to you because you get all defensive and start ranting about how none of this is your fault - so therefore it's all hers is it? If this is how you conduct your conversations I can see how she would not want to go down that road. You don't seem to able to take criticism of any kind, even when we are just trying to help you, which is what we are doing. I really do think you need to take a long hard look at yourself, and I do still think you need a counsellor.

Words mean nothing, actions mean everything. If your wife sees the changes you are making, she will be more willing to open up. At the moment she may well be too scared to tell you how she really feels because she may well get the kind of responses we are getting from you - and they are very defensive! This thread has been running for ages and people have taken time out to post personal replies to you, even offering their emails for you. But you seem instead to only pick up on the negatives and you will not admit any blame whatsoever.

I'm sorry SS, but I think I begin to see what is the problem here. You are a very hard person to talk to. Did you read Lavendar1's post? She opened her heart out to you and told how she is in a very similar situation, yet you didn't even remark on her post, you chose instead to take offence at someone else's.

I think I shall stop posting on this now because quite frankly you are driving me nuts! No doubt you will get all angry and defensive about that now! I feel very sorry for both of you. I wish you well for the future, I do mean that, I hope that you find the answers you are looking for and I hope you find the courage to look in the right places.

Rhubarb · 01/12/2003 14:54

P.S. Can I make a guess about the content of that letter? Was it all about what you have done and what she hasn't? Asking her why she is behaving in this way and what you have done wrong? Re-read your letter and try to imagine how you would react if that letter were sent to you by your wife.

StressyHead · 01/12/2003 15:10

message withdrawn

Blu · 01/12/2003 15:30

"Not least of all she does not think that there is a problem, that is all I can conclude from her total refusal to talk to me about this, or even accept a compliment from me."

I am sorry to say, SS that what I would conclude from that is that she thinks that there is a BIG problem which she herself is refusing to confront or admit, or deal with, probably through fear.

If - IF- she has fallen out of love with you, the horrible truth is that protestations of love from you probably make it worse, and probably compound her feeling of guilt, making it harder for her to talk.

Why do you think the Relate person was so emphatic that you may need to prepare for the end of the relationship? Are you sure you aren't the one finding it hard to face the truth about what has happened between you?

I do not say this to paint a picture of a doomed marriage, but because it is clear that whatever you have been trying from your current 'it must be my fault' position of the last years is not working, and it may help to step back and for you to STOP 'trying to make it nice'?

secur · 02/12/2003 11:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

judetheobscure · 03/12/2003 19:09

simon - I've just read this thread - I think you've been incredibly courageous admitting all this to strangers - your "plight" (and that of your wife) seems intolerable to me. Can I say:

You need to decide what you want out of life - do you want what could be potentially years of, to all intents and purposes, loveless marriage? If you're happy with that (you don't sound like you are) then do nothing.

If you're not happy with that then you need to take risks, including the risk of your marriage failing.

At the moment you are not getting through to your wife - her refusal to talk is the main issue. If you can get her to talk you may be able to start resolving some of the issues. If she won't talk then you may as well leave the relationship now. You should tell her this "there is no point staying together if we cannot try to resolve some of our issues". (Have you broken down and cried in front of her - does she realise how much you are hurting?) If she won't talk suggest a trial separation, maybe a week or so, until she is ready to talk.

Counselling has been suggested - together or both separately - she may feel able to talk through an intermediary as it were without you there. Do you know any friends or relatives well enough to talk with them?

Obviously top of your agenda is sex but, as many others have said, this is probably merely a symptom of some deeper problem. You mention lack of time and other commitments. My husband works 12 hours a day and a fair amount at the weekend. In addition we both have other commmitments. But it doesn't stop us having time for each other and it doesn't have to for you either if you don't want it to. Your problems sound deeper than this. I don't think you are going to get any improvement unless you are prepared to take some risks.

One final thing - does your wife have bereavement issues she is/has been coming to terms with?. These can take a very long time to "resolve".

Good luck simon - I hope you start getting some answers soon.

lavender1 · 03/12/2003 19:46

Simon,

One last message from me on the subject. I wrote the stuff about responsibilty weighing you down because my husband and I are having problems just like yours. Nothing has worked for us, he blames me for not acting like a wife to him. truth is am not some kind of sex goddess, we've been together for 15 years and there are things about him that reallt grate me...My advice would be to listen to the last message as it was good and seriously try and put yourself in you dws shoes...Spend a week on your own looking after your son, if it's possible give ehr a break and then you might be able to understand how us women feel...people think that looking after a house and home and doing a little part-time job is easy...it is not, I would be MUCH less stressed if I went into the office each day, had someone else get the children up, pack them off to school with all their things and then come in later in the evening when all has been done...Childcare is emotionally draining, please understand that she might need more freedom.

Anyway that's all I'm going to say. I sincerely hope you listen to this message and try and listen to your wifes reall angsts (my dh, complains about our sex life...yet every time I try to tell him how I feel he doesn't really take in on board)..if you clipped off a birds wings then it would not be beautiful bird of flight but a very sad and tied down bird.

Adios

Clarinet60 · 03/12/2003 19:50

a lovely, poignant post, lavender

simplesimon · 04/12/2003 09:23

Jude, thank you, and you Lavender.

I just did the long response thing again and it was all cr*p, and rather too personal to post here. Also self indulgent of course. It was all the things that I have tried, and how they failed, to show her that I love her. Some of the suggestions here are great, some have not worked, some I have not tried, and maybe could not. Some maybe I could try, but I am scared of confirming my own suspicions.

Right this second things have not got worse for a long time and to be honest a loveless marriage would be better than life without her. That could be construed as giving up, in which case feel free to criticise, but do NOT think that I am not grateful. I have wandered in here and given nothing to anyone - Having said that I would like to go for a drink with Dadslib sometime and offer him a few perspectives from some of my experiences but I do not think he would fancy the idea - and asked you for help and to an extent support, and received it.

Sex is not the biggest issue, honestly, although I do feel a bit weird thinking that part of my life is over. I think I miss being held and hugged the most.

Perhaps, if I try harder, I might deserve more and then I will have the right to moan about it.

thank you

OP posts:
dadslib · 04/12/2003 09:46

Message withdrawn

simplesimon · 04/12/2003 09:51

Is there a big difference between "coming to terms" with it and just sort of putting up with it? A fear is that I might be tempted to do something that would further damage the relationship.

The offer of a drink is legitimate. I am not going anywhere near the other post...

OP posts:
dadslib · 04/12/2003 09:56

Message withdrawn

simplesimon · 04/12/2003 11:28

Maybe we should ring up the production team of 'Wifeswap'

OP posts:
Clarinet60 · 04/12/2003 14:58

I think there's a big difference between coming to terms with it and just putting up with it. Coming to terms with it would involve both of you deciding that you had a platonic relationship, which would involve talking about it, which seems to be off the agenda for the moment.

dadslib · 04/12/2003 15:39

Message withdrawn

lavender1 · 04/12/2003 21:21

Simon, not getting personal here at all but am into astrology, what star sign are you and what is your wife? I'm pisces and don't mind people knowing. I've spent the last few years studying this highly controversial subject, and have come to the conclusion that there are definite needs of certain signs, which go across the board no matter how hard you try to pretend they don't exist.

You may be wondering why this is relevant, well if you know someone's inner needs it is easy to relate to them...Do you know any QUIET leos who don't like the spotlight, or any cancerians who aren't homeloving?

Interesting it is, reply if you like, only trying to help, not analyse anyone I don't know...Feel free to say whatever you like on this one.

lavender1 · 04/12/2003 21:25

dadslib, you've got a gsoh!

august24 · 05/12/2003 09:57

Lavender1, sorry to hijak the thread but will you tell us more about astrology and relationships? maybe start another thread?