men do confuse love and sex

[simplesimon]

Sneaking out of the shadows I suppose I am asking the Dads something although I can see it is a topic that has been covered before.

I love my wife she loves me but we have not made love in 6 years.

I think what scares me is the idea that she does not fancy me. More than that perhaps she is seeing someone else.

Help.

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Its probably not 'personal' , i.e probably not a question of not fancying you anymore, its probably more to do with a seriously depressed libido ...(which probably has a psychological basis, or it could be hormonal i.e. too little testosterone which is a recognised problem in the USA but not here...and yes I said testestorone, since this is present in females too)

I talk from experience - I don't want sex either, and if Richard Gere walked in and was prepared to drop his standards to make a sexual offer to a nondescript 35 year old (moi), then I would tell him I had a headache.

You say she is unwilling to talk about it - well I think you have to force the issue. You've been very patient (6 years!!) and she at least owes you a discussion. My dh and I have talked from time to time about it and at least he understands the scenario and we do 'do it' occasionally.

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DL - The internet will collapse tonight with all our dh's trying to find out about how to get us those injections!

My dh has the opposite problem, he wants sex and I don't! We haven't done anything for 4 months now because I'm pregnant, I don't feel at all sexy, even though he tells me that I am. He says all the right things and everything, but I just feel so uncomfortable and sore that sex is out of the question. When we have tried it has hurt and that puts me off even more. However I'm not that bothered about missing sex, but he is! I think once you get into that way of thinking, and celibacy becomes a routine, it's very hard to bring yourself out of it again.
I've also been very depressed, which doesn't help bring back the old libido either.

Simplesimon, I would say woo your wife, don't pressure her into sex or even mention it. Just cuddle her and kiss her but try to go any further. If she feels that you are just cuddling to get into bed, she'll be put off. Be attentive to her, compliment her appearance and her clothes. Be patient, in time she will initiate it herself, but it does have to be on her terms I'm afraid. And when the time comes, don't rush, do everything slowly and let her guide you.

Mine will have to wait until the baby is here and probably a few months old! He does complain every now and then, but I'm not going to have sex simply to satisfy him. He hasn't given up boozing or smoking during this pregnancy, so he can sacrifice this instead!

SS

I agree with a lot of what Flamingo has said as well. We don't have a lot of sex which peeves my husbad. I think my sex drive is low, but I also know that a lot of the problem is just the kind of mad life we lead. He seems to be able to switch off the maddness and turn on to sex. We don't talk half as much as we used to about all sorts of things and I can't just jump into sex with someone, who in a way, I feel I'm losing touch with in other ways.(We have 2 small kids, I'm pg & we both work, me p/t)

So, I would say follow a lot of Flamingos very good advice & get to know her again in other ways first. Hope this isn't presumptious.....maybe you are very close in other ways!!

Though I was not going to reply again but you all seem to have points I need to think about. I think I tell her I love her and try to show her.

I think I woo her as far as I can or she will let me.

I think I have tried to talk to her about this and about our relationship generally and not got anywhere.

I do not think I am squeamish about sex although I may have forgotten how to do it. Some of my fantasies about her are driving me spare but they are always about her. The biggest fantasy is that we are lovers again and I do not just mean sex.

I do think I may have left it so late because I am so afraid of ruining what we have left.

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SS

Please be brave and print out and show her this thread. It might make her reflect a bit more, and she can't fail but be moved by what you have just written.

Yes - print this thread out SS and show it to her. If I were her I would be thrilled that you cared enough to ask for advice. She may not know just how much it is affecting you. If you leave it for her to read, it will have much more of an impact than if you talk to her about it. Sometimes talking about sex can be embarrassing and she might feel 'got at'. You come across as a really caring bloke and I don't see how she can not be moved by reading this thread. You obviously can't go on as you are, so now is the time to grab the bull by the horns so to speak. Best of luck, please let us know how it all turns out.

Rhubarb and Handle thank you.

If it were that simple then that is exactly what I would do but they are only words. Words are not enough.

I do not know if there is any way that we can talk about this anymore. Maybe that is the problem although I have no idea how we got to this stage as I never stopped loving her or wanted her to forget that I stopped loving her.

Looking at some of the other suggestions I was in a position recently where I could have had an affair or at least a fling and I did not. I can not think of anything that would do more damage to her.

You say words are not enough, well maybe not but surely they are better than nothing? It's a start is it not? Every marriage goes through a rough patch, it's up to you whether or not yours survives the storm. The greatest killer of all relationships is silence. You might think it is too late, well then you have nothing to lose. Do you want to carry on like this? Any change is better than none at the moment, surely?
You are trying to get inside your wife's head, anticipating what she is thinking, but you cannot do that. Only she knows how she feels. You cannot tell what her reaction would be if she read this thread, she might be annoyed, or astounded or saddened. In any case you simply have to make your feelings known to her, she is no more of a mind-reader than you are. She might think that you don't mind things the way they are, she might think that you are no longer interested in her, she might think that you are having an affair yourself. One thing is clear on this thread and that is how much you love her. So whatever way she chooses to read what you have said, she cannot deny that much. Your love for her rings out true and clear. At least if you show her this thread, the ball is then in her court. It is up to her how to use the knowledge you have given her.

It will probably be a rough ride for you both. If she is suffering from depression and low self-esteem, it could take her a while to open up to you, she might be afraid of laying her feelings bare, but if you start the ball rolling it may encourage her to do that. She could be waiting for you to make the first move.

I agree, words are not enough, they need to be followed by actions. If she reads this, then make sure you book a nice meal for you both afterwards so you can sit down and discuss it, decide what you want to do next. She might ask for a bit of space, if so you must respect that and give her all the room she needs. It worked for FatBoySlim, whatever his name is. But if you do nothing, then the situation can only get worse and she may think that you don't care. Be brave. If the relationship does dissolve, then it would have happened anyway. But you need to fight to keep it, and she will respect you more if you do fight for her.

I think I am frightened that because she really does not want to talk about it then i will begin at a disadvantage. Just being in the same house as her is better than not being with her.

Pathetic aren't I?

You're not at all pathetic, but you have lost all confidence by the sounds of things. You've really got to try something, you know, if you are going to get any change.

Interesting you say words are not enough. It's amazing how important words are for a woman to feel sexy - it's very much in the head for us, you know. And I don't mean porn-movie dirty talk. 'You look gorgeous in that outfit' 'I love the way you smell' go a long way. Maybe even better by text or email.

I agree, for us women communication is everything. If you carry on as you are, what's to say that she wouldn't leave anyway? Then you'd be beating yourself up for not trying hard enough! You are not pathetic, I can sort of understand where you are coming from. And you are right, it might prove to be the ignition that lights the flame. But really, if the relationship is that bad, then nothing you can do will make it any better. But if it does all fall apart, at least you will know that you tried.

I really do hope that it doesn't all end in tears, that perhaps reading all of this, will give her an insight into what you've been feeling and fearing all this time and she will collapse into your arms! It is scary doing something like this, something that has potentially such huge implications. But you know that it is inevitable really. We are always here for you to support you no matter which way it goes. One good thing is that she is still with you, she could have left a long time ago but she is still choosing to be with you, so perhaps things won't be as bad as you fear?

To give yourself a bit of ammunition, could you not speak to one of her girlfriends first to see if they know anything? She must have someone that she talks to. If you had an idea of how she felt you would know best how to approach her.

Best of luck mate.

I just wonder why 6 years have gone by with things the way they are? This is a response from a man! Seriously just wonder.

I've read all the advice about speaking to her etc but its six years on from when this started (stopped?).

You say how much you love her - but it doesnt seem to bother her that there is no sex? your life together (other than sex) must be ok to have gone through the last six years?

I wonder why she doesn't want to speak about it. She must realise that it is causing problems for you.

I hope there is a solution for you - sorry i have asked more questions than i have provided answers!

Hi, I just thought I'd check in again, no change, and feeling especially upset about it, and can't help but think I'm being selfish, but I really really miss her.There are lots and lots of threads a bit like this from a number of different perspective, but no one has an answer.

I don't think you will get an answer until you talk to her about it again. What does she say when you bring the subject up? I think you will have to bite the bullet and say straight out - are we ever going to have sex again? If not, why not? You are going to have to be blunt. If you get a negative response, then you both need to consider your positions re the marriage.
I'm sorry for what you are going through, but I think your wife holds all the answers.
Good luck.

I don't think anyone else has said this, but can you think of any reasons why she might be unwilling to get close to you? How are the household chores split? (You'd be surprised what effect that can have one one's libido!) Also, what happens when you initiate sex? Does she turn away from you or make an excuse verbally, or do you just sleep in separate beds? Also, what time of night do you initiate it? because if my DH wants me after 11 oclock, when he has finished watching all he needs to on TV, etc, I take it as a bit of an insult - if I'm worth that kind of attention, I won't be an afterthought and there needs to be a bit of a build-up.
Just some inane ideas.

It's not "sex" as such (although obviously that would be jolly nice) it is any kind of intimacy or interest in me as a partner as opposed to a flatmate.

As for the chores, I try to do what I can, but I would do more if she would let me. My Job means I do not get home at a sensible time and i think the idea of waiting for me to get home to do the hoovering would piss her off somewhat.

When do i initiate sex? ho ho ho, last time was July.

Simon, I think the problem might be that she does drudgery stuff all day, doesn't see you until late, by which time she doesn't feel as if she has a partner as such - just someone who appears when everything is done and hasn't had a hand in any of it. I appreciate that none of that is your fault - those are just the facts of how she will feel, as I felt like this when my DH worked silly hours.

Might not be anything to do with that at all, of course, but it sounds likely.

BTW, I get the impression from the subtext that you sound too far gone to make any changes if they are needed. Not being rude - you just sound as if you are waiting for her/us/fate to sort it and this is just one of those things that has happened to you, like an accident. I'm sorry if the situation has made you feel hopeless. I think that long hours notwithstanding, you and your partner ought to try and work as a team a bit more, somehow, because you sound like two separate people - flatmates is an apt description. Have you thought about Relate?
Is there anything you can think of that you could do for each other in the evenings? I don't mean hoovering, but there must be plenty of stuff left other than that (I know there is in our house!). Could you offer to do a bit of something (laundry, sorting clothes, etc) and at the same time, ask her if she would help you with something for you? That might lead to the two of you doing things together, which might lead to some kind of intimacy.
The only other thing I can think of is an evening out, a long walk, nice meal, long talk, followed by kissing BEFORE YOU GET HOME. It has just occurred to me that home might be associated with housework etc. If you started kissing her somewhere else it might be more romantic. Come to think about it, I don't think there is anywhere less romantic than home once you've had kids and bed is definitely for sleeping.

And what happened in July? I'm not being nosy, but if we are to get to the root of the problem you need to tell us more than half a tale, because in my imagination, she is pushing you away/has already gone to sleep/ has slapped you/has burst into tears/pretends to be asleep.......... do you see what I mean? It's a mystery.

Just to say Simplesimon, please take heed from what Droile has said - I agree with every word.

And if you really want to change things it is a plain, inescapable fact that you will have to 'force' her to talk about this

I couldn't agree more. Your wife does hold all the answers SS and the longer you put off talking to her, the more miserable you are becoming. We don't know your wife so can only guess at why she is like this, we can't go in there and sort your problems out for you. It could be that sex is not the problem, just one of the symptoms, so try talking to her about something else. Ask her if there is more you could do. Arrange a babysitter and book a restaurant for you both. Take the initiative in little things like this and she might just open up more and tell you what the problem is.

Trouble is, if you're not getting home until late, she might feel distanced from you. You may have become just a flatmate in her eyes because you aren't paying her the attention. You say you haven't tried initiating sex with her since July, you don't talk to her about it because you're frightened of her response, so what do you talk about? Do you take an interest in how her day has gone? Do you do the little things for her that mean so much to us? Do you hug her for no particular reason? Do you make an effort to see each other outside the home? You see, she could think that you simply aren't interested in her anymore.

Sometimes we expect our partners to be mind-readers, which isn't really fair on them. If something is up we expect them to ask us about it, to just 'know' how we are feeling and we get very sulky if they don't!

Perhaps you should leave the Mumsnet site address next to your pc, then maybe she'll log on and we could find out what's up!