men do confuse love and sex

[simplesimon]

Sneaking out of the shadows I suppose I am asking the Dads something although I can see it is a topic that has been covered before.

I love my wife she loves me but we have not made love in 6 years.

I think what scares me is the idea that she does not fancy me. More than that perhaps she is seeing someone else.

Help.

DL - Coming from the best wind-up merchant on Mumsnet that is quite a statement! lol

MY child was immaculate!

Well it seems that I have to apologise for not having had internet access for a few days.

Yes my Son is 6 and yes he is now at school.

As for my being rude then I am genuinely sorry if people feel that where their advice was something that i had already tried or which in our particular relationship would not work I have "rudely" dismissed it.

As I said I hoped that here there would be some people who had had this issue arise in their relationship and had been able to deal with it and might want to help but to be honest having come back to this I really think that I was wasting everybodies time especially my own.

I am at work for another couple of hours tonight so here is your opportunity to insult me and call me a spineless git or whatever the next offensive remark in the queue is.

Hi Simon, nice to see your name on mumsnet again.

I am really sorry you feel insulted here (but sadly not surprised as I think some of the comments have been unkind)- must add insult to injury!

I am sorry to be full of doom and gloom, but regards your original question - have others gone through this and come out the other end on a positive note - I don't know any who have.
I do know of friends who felt their marriages went through a difficult and stale time while the kids were young, and found a renewed love for each other once the constant demands of kiddies became a bit less pressing when the kids got older. However your situation does sound a bit worse than the standard stale-when-the kids-are -young thing.

I also know of others who were in your situation and are no longer together.

Forgive me if I am statng the bleeding obvious but have you asked your wife out right
a) why she is no longer affectionate/sexual to you
b) if she is having an affair?

And have you asked yourself whether you could live forever in this sex and passion free zone if that is the way it is to be?

As someone who has been through divorce you have all my sympathies. It is a really horrible option, but then, going along forever the way things are is no good either.

Hi Simon - So sorry you feel like this after coming onto MN!!

I hope you can get your situation resolved soon. I must say that after ds was born I could've quite happily had no sex for a eyar or more! After that we had kinda gotten out of the habit and it took a real effort on both our parts to try do change that. Could it be that its just been so long that she may actually be scared to have sex again?

SS I have followed this thread over the weeks & I can se both sides to the reactions on here. I am quite a blunt person & hope I don't offend but the way I see it is this.....

You appear to be a man who is still very much in love with your wife but have not had sex & after 6 years it is getting to you a bit. You have sought advise, reassurance & a soloution from fellow mumsnetters here.....various opinions & ideas have been suggested & also things for you to think through....
you appear to have not taken any of these options on board thus creating a new opinion of yourself to other mumsnetters that you may be a troll (incase you don't know....a troll is someone who just comes on to websites, posts obscure threads that will hopefully lead to 'in house' arguments or sexual habits etc) We have had a few TROLL experiences here on mumsnet and it spoils the site for many, so you can hopefully understand why some people feel a tad annoyed, frustrated by the fact that you could be one.
The bottom line as I see it is that if you are genuine this situation is no good for you & probably not very nice for your wife either but she may find it hard to approach the issue as well as its been going on for so long. The fact that your son is 6 years old & the sex hasn't occurred for 6 years too is really pointing towards a connection. As I say to my friends who have relationship problems....someone has to make the 1st move! YOU REALLY NEED TO BE UP FRONT & ASK HER IN DIRECT TERMS. I fully understand you are apprehensive of the outcome because you'd 'rather keep what you have rather than have nothing at all' but it has to be done for the whole family's sake.
The scenerios as I see it is that you can set aside some time. Turn the tv off & just say to her "You do know that I love you even though we haven't had a physical relationship for quite some time don't you?"
That way, she straight away knows how you feel about her & you're not just dealing with the SEX bit you are also reassuring her that you love her. She may well be feeling unloved because of the past 6 years too you know.

Her reaction may be: YES OF COURSE I KNOW YOU LOVE ME to which you could take it into a further discussion......"So do you not need the physical side of a relationship to feel loved" she may reply:NO OF COURSE I DON'T...you could say "Yes but it was nice feeling that close wasn't it" then develope it from there....

She may intially reply: OH I THOUGHT YOU'D GONE OFF ME..so follow it up with "no way...I've just been unsure if you wanted that from me anymore" etc

She may reply: "I REALLY DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS NOW" so you have to be firm & say "Well I really do, I really need to discuss this, I'm worried we're both not showing the right amount of affection in this relationship to each other"

She may reply with any number of responses & you need to be prepared for any given one EVEN NEGATIVE ONES & ONES YOU MAY NOT WANT TO HEAR. But even if they are negative & not what you want to hear you can still build on it if you want to...things can be worked out if you try.....but thats the point you have to try...for your sake, your wife's & your son...You can't honestly want him to grown in an environment where love & affection don't take place...

Basically YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING...the ball is firmly in your court & no matter how much you type on here to us & get responses it is ultimately with your wife that your questions should be aired.

Good luck...and please please take someones advice...do something, not necesarily my ideas but SOMEONE'S. it needs doing....maybe your wife wants it to be resolved to but can't make the 1st move on the discussion either, so take the bull by the horns & do something...before it truly does become to late!!!!

Chin up & good luck

What am I doing at work?

Dixie, maybe I have not made things clear, I have done that, I have forced that conversation, and I could not get an answer, in fact it was not really a conversation it was me asking the questions and her simply refusing to talk about it. I tired to find out why she did not want to talk about it and she did not want to talk about that either.

Similarly I have tried very very hard to tell her I love her and she just responds as if I have tld her the milkman has been.

Maybe I am better not knowing.

I am going to go home now to sneak into bed and lie next to her not even daring to touch her. If any of you think I am making that up, well can you think of anything more pathetic?

What did she actually say? "I don't want to talk about this"? What di you reply? Did you say, "it's important to me. I am very, very unhappy because I love you?"
No, obviously sometimes you have less sex than at other times. But six years seems to say to me the relationship is in its death throes unless you do something drastic. Could you ask, 'what would make you feel more loved by me?" or even 'Is there anything I do that makes you feel loved?"

s simon, you are selling yourself short. I do not want to judge...... I know where you are coming from. You are not the only one going through this, I spent years doing exactly what you are going through, in the end I said enough was enough. You cannot live this life its not fair on any of you. You are along time dead, exactly what are you waiting for? I doubt your wife is having an affair, if she was, she would be long gone. If you need advice that is what you will get. Whether you wish to take this advice is up to you. In years to come, you will hate yourself so much, for missing on your youth, your health, and anything else you take for granted. If you do not do something now, she will leave you. Here am I living proof, do something now.... If you are still getting no-where, you are not trying hard enough. I have read and reread this thread, and only now decided to post on here. I will be coming back regulaly to check on you. Don't let us down.

Hi SS, well done for answering! Hope you feel able to keep it up. At last, a more detailed explanation from you about what happens when you ask your wife what's wrong! I hope you now understand that it's a good idea to answer direct questions from mumsnetters trying to help you - doing otherwise makes us smell a rat.

Having read your post, it sounds like your DW might be depressed. Perhaps you could ask her if she's willing to go to counselling with you, and see how things go from there. I see, BTW, that you seem to have got similar advice all over again. Hope this doesn't seem too much like Groundhog Day for you.

Hi all, on lates again.

Secur, that sounds so close to home that I think I want to cry. I feel guilty and as if i am pushing my luck if my feet touch hers, and I cannot remember when I last dared to hug her. I seem to remember it was clumsy and awkward.

you have not said what resolution if any you found and I am rather hoping that you all lived happily ever after.

Droile, Hi! You are right about the advice maybe I should start all over again but there can only be so much space in mumsnet for us menfolk I do not want to do anything that would help identify me.

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Post closed I think, thanks folks, DL is right, I am just going to annoy you all.

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SS there is PLENTY of space on mumsnet for the menfolk!

Have we got this right?
You have tried talking to her but she just shrugs you off? I agree with Droile she might be depressed , and so indeed might you.

Keep talking to her. Ask questions. Demand (in the nicest possible way) answers. ASk her if she wants out, and be prepared for the answer.
Good luck.

So you give up on your wife and you give up on us - this sounds terribly familiar! Do you give up on a lot of things SS? It sounds like you don't like taking risks in life, you would rather live with a difficult situation in the blind hope that it will get better than take a risk to change it. What has made you like this? What has happened in the past when you have taken risks? I think that maybe you could benefit from some counselling yourself. You can go to Relate on your own you know. I know you said you have no time, but it's your choice, either you make time for your marriage, or you carry on working and you lead a lonely life on your own.

I don't feel there is anything else anyone can say to you. Only one person can help you now, and that is you. Get some counselling mate, I think you need it!

SS, Was drawn to this site today when husband was out and children were winding each other up!, was feeling really low and was looking for a solution..The fact is my situation exactly mirrors yours, my dh is always and I mean daily complaining that we don't make ---- any more; the truth is though he gets an awful lot more time away from the children than I do, he goes abroad, I give them breakfast everyday, he does not realise how draining it is day in day out; draining in the sense that am very emotional person and really find the responsibility hard, reason being in the last 8 and a half years, since oldest son was born have not had more than a night away from children and NEVER had a weekend away without the children...My dh tells me I couldn't get enough before they were born...but now I reflect I realise my persona is of somebody who likes to be out of doors enjoying the fresh air, the freedom where I am not always nailed down...my drive appears when at work as outdoor job and boss attractive, although would not do the obvious with him....it's just that in the right environment your soul feels like it is getting the right treatment and you can be the person you are meant to be.

In case this doesn't make any sense, I have read ALL of the resonses tonight because it is causing serious problems in our marriage and we do not move a step forward...I can totally understand you sometimes not acting on the nights out/ cooking thing because when my dh does this it doesn't address the real issue, the thing that I would really like to ask you if I may is is your wife a staying at home type, happy doing domestic chores and working to fulfill her families needs? which I myself love doing without question...but seriously a woman needs to feel like a woman, maybe she would love a week away on her own without all the responsibility that I know too well... Put it this way all around me grandparents are in and out of the houses here, but my mother hasn't spent a night here in nearly 4 years, father passed away and dh parents too, so never get a break... If this sounds familiar then please feel free to e-mail me as quote "Spirit and Destiny" magazine said a few months ago housework makes you depressed...I never get away from it,,,would really think good to ask your dw if sge would like more freedom and less responsibility.....childcare is so much harder than going into an office each day where you get instant conversation and banter, knowing that if you roll in at 9 even 10 0'clock somebody else will have done all the emotional stuff,,

Sorry this is such a long message and really hope you read this as I feel very much pulled down by responsibilty and if didn't have this all the time would feel like a woman with her own voice and not just somebody's wife, mother ...Don't think your pathetic at all, just hard for you to understand how complicated we women really are...just want as much fun and freedom as men...all the best and try to give her some freedom.

I shouldn't have come back - I am an occasional looker, or whatever people who do not post much are called, and despite my best intentions I have looked at this thread again espite forsaking it.

And again it seems I need to explain myself although maybe not defend myself.

I try. I do all I can and yes perhaps that is not enough. Maybe I should just walk away but that ignores the fact that I still love her and I love our son.

I do not think that I am depressed but I will admit to being very very unhappy which can have a similar effect.

I am also not sure I have answered anyones question, there seem to be an awful lot of them suddenly. Maybe I do need to talk to someone rather than throw myself to the lions and maybe this is not the place to do it, taking us back neatly to where I started. I honestly cannot think of anyone I can talk to. Ideally it would be my wife but who do you talk to when that is exactly what you cannot do?

I tried relate, skiving off work to do so, and all they wanted to do was help me come to terms with the end of my relationship. I think that although that made me very very angry that was when I stopped fighting.

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That is a really frightening idea twinkie, not going home I mean. The potential ramifications are very very scary.

Our son is quite physical, but I think he is getting less so just because he is a boy. I am getting to the point where I flinch when anyone touches me, I think because of this.

As for a therapist, well I miss sex a lot, more than I should but this isn't a sex thing it's a love and affection thing.

You know when I try to reply here I write reams and reams and then cut most of it out and I cannot even explain why.

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Twink,

If I didn't go home I would be being utterly unfair to both my Wife and my son, woudn't I?

Not least of all she does not think that there is a problem, that is all I can conclude from her total refusal to talk to me about this, or even accept a compliment from me.

She would not talk to anyone else about this, no matter what their status or quaifications for any reason. Are you saying that I have a choice, leave or be miserable ad infinitum?

I will be honest and say that I can't go on, I feel unhappy all of the time. Not just some of the time. I do not want to go to work in the mornings and I do not want to go home in the evenings. I miss her when we are not together, and I feel hurt and confused by her when we are.

We row when we do not ignore each other, and when we sit there barely talking I want to go to sleep and never wake up, hoping that maybe she'll care about me more if she knows she won't have to put up with the reality of me.

I have no idea what I have done to get here, how I have let her down, how I have become such a regret to her, how I make her so unhappy and unsatisfied. I have no idea how to understand her or know what she means. I have no idea why everything she says to me seems and feels belittling. It must be as much my perception as what she does, but it seems as if she always has something to be angry and unhappy about and my best bet is just to assume I am going to piss her off if I open my mouth. I honestly beleive that I did not always feel like this - we used to be very much in love, and I still am but I do not know what changed.

I have to stop here, there is so much to say, and here is not the place to say it, and you are not the person to say it to, but I could really use a friend right now, and I do not seem to have my best friend anymore.

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SS, I apologise if this has been said already but is it possible that your wife could be depressed? does she have friends in your area? does she go out, lead a life outside the home? does she work?