"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

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It's November 2011, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

enchanted : please stop apologizing for yourself. It's such a sign that you have been made to feel insignificant and at fault since birth. You have every right to vent, to be longwinded, and to walk this earth with confidence.

Your post is heartbreaking.

Please use the links and books listed on page 1 of this thread, and consider counselling if it's at all an option for you to put to rest all these demons from the past.

You would be perfectly entitled - and doing yourself a favour - to cut your mother out of your life. That's a decision you need to come to yourself, however.

Hello. I hope MN don't mind that I will change my nickname every time I use this thread.

I have come to accept that I have controlling parents. I just read the controlling parents section in Toxic Parents on Amazon and can not believe that someone has been spying into my life (I will buy this book now). I feel like someone has finally validated how I always felt as a teen and how I feel now that I want to do something in my life that my parents don't want me to do.

I feel trapped in a cycle of anger and disbelief towards my parents but at the same time I question whether I am unnecessarily hurting them and whether I feel guilty for a good reason. I question why my brother and sister side with them if I am right. But they always have. They have never understood the problem that I have with my parents', especially my dad's, controlling behaviour. They have always gone along with everything my parents have said.

I have been in a difficult situation for a few years now. H walked out on me leaving me with a small child. I am young myself. They have been very very helpful, but now they seem to be using the relationship they have built with my DS against me. They don't want me to move on if it means that I will be away from them.

I used to want to get a job. I hate being on benefits and not in control of my own life. They have always told me not to though. Made me feel like I would be a bad mother to not be around DS 24/7. So I haven't got a job. I have stayed in a position where I need their help. I have allowed myself to use them to get some rest bite and now that is biting me in the arse.

I want to run away. I can't believe I am in this position again. I can't believe I feel like I did as a teen. 'The bad one' 'The rebellious one'

I want to start a relationship with a man. I have known him for a nearly two years now. They could not be more against this. If I ever did marry him (obviously way in the future) I would have to move. This is the ultimate sin it seems. I can't because it would mean my son not seeing my father as much as he does. My son needs my father for the rest of his life apparently (he's only little just now). Problem is, my father is controlling of my mother. My son has started repeating this behaviour towards her. I do not want him to think this is any way to treat a woman! I do not want him to be controlled by my father. My dad says he is like a father to my son (I don't live with them btw but see them 3 - 4 times a week) but actually in practice will go against things I say I want for my son, will let him get away with murder and is not helping me in that way. Because I want to date someone they don't approve of I have been told 'They are not sleeping because of this, mum is crying all the time, why would I go against my family like this?' He is a really nice guy. He is the kind of guy that mothers try to set their daughters up with. I enjoy spending time with him so much. I don't really have many friends any more. I am stuck here. I have one friend but she is a mother also and we just don't get to meet up that often, and she is married and busy. I feel like a child that is trying to please her parents all the time. Does this potential relationship sound like the end of the earth or a horrible repulsive idea? Please, tell me straight!

I feel totally lost and confused. I feel betrayed. Sorry for the massive rant but this is the first time I have started to acknowledge this stuff allowed. Or am I imagining it? Does it not sound that bad really? You ladies will know please tell me if I am being daft? To everyone out side my family home my dad seems like such a great guy and everyone sees all the help that they have given me with son. So I feel like I must be wrong.

An other example: My dad told my sister she should do something. It involved my sister's money. She is living on her own and in a good job. Someone else said 'but only if you want to'. My dad said 'No, because your daddy told you to.' My sister has said aloud that if my dad told her not to date someone she wouldn't.

Why do I feel the need to have everyone's permission to live? Is that right? I am so sorry for how big this post is and it probably makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense to me.

Do what you need to do to start detaching. The first step is awareness, so reading Toxic Parents and any of the links at the start of this thread is an excellent start.

It won't be easy or immediate, but bit by bit you will work through the feelings of fear, obligation, guilt, anger, grief, and ultimately find the way to be you, to say no, to assert your own needs and set healthy boundaries. And to do all this without any more emotional entanglement with your parents and siblings.

No, your parents won't like it one bit, and they won't make it easy. But once you've figured out who you are, what you want, and most of all, that you are entitled to be you and to assert your needs, then it will all fall into place.

Good luck

(and PS: obviously yes you should get a job if you want one, and no your son does not "need" your father. Your father probably does need him as an emotional crutch, but that is not a healthy need or one that you have to acquiesce to.)

What an inspirational thread and how good to feel after nearly 60 years that one is not alone.

My mother disowned me completely when I was 33, because I was such a disappointment to her. She told me that I had ruined her life and, I quote, shown not one shred of remorse. At the time I was a successful lawyer, pregnant with my second child. In fact I was in hospital on a drip, trying to defer premature labour when I got that letter. I still don?t know how I could have ruined her life, or why anything that was wrong with her life should be my fault.

I have made various attempts to get to grips with this over the years and am now OK day to day, but my childhood has certainly affected all my relationships throughout my life. In particular being told at the age of 18 that no-one would ever love me, and I would never have any friends ?because of the way you are? resulted in my being grateful for any attention from others and carried the toxicity forward.

I did make an attempt at therapy, but the therapist was madder than I was, so that failed.

I?ve got to grips now with the verbal, emotional and physical abuse and understand that my mother?s untreated mental health issues are behind this, together with my father?s being emotionally unavailable having had no experience of family life as a child. I can almost forgive, but not quite.
What I am looking for is reassurance and perhaps advice on one point. My parents slept in single beds at home. When we went on holiday we would have a family room with a double and a single bed. My mother refused to sleep in the double bed with my Dad, so I had to. I was between 8 and 11 at the time. I have no memory of anything specific, other than absolutely hating it and being frightened of his penis. I hope there was no sexual abuse, but I cannot be sure. Surely it wasn?t ?normal? even then in the 1960s, to make a pre-pubescent girl share a bed with her father? Especially when she was unwilling?

My father died 19 years ago. When my mother decided to disown me he went along with it. I don?t understand that either. I always thought he ran their relationship, but perhaps not.

Thanks for listening.

Thank you ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow. It is so great to hear someone validate how I feel as well. I look forward to reading Toxic Parents.

RockinD I am so sorry about what you have been through. To answer that Q, no I don't think it is right to make a girl as old as 8-11 share a bed with her father if she didn't want to.

Hi All.
I have suspected I have been bullied and controlled by my closest family with my mother as head controller forever really. I kinda recognised it and tried "manage" it over the years by keeping my distance. However as a child of a family like this it's hard not to get sucked back in, especially if the ring leader, in this case my mother, is master manipulator.
I really have little self esteem for myself, I think it was taken long ago. I have had years of problems which now I realise are closely linked to how I was raised. That's by the by, what has been done to me is done, it can't be undone,

But my child is a different matter. I will NOT have her damaged as I have been, nothing matters to me except her well being above all else.

OK there it is, yep they have started on her too.

One of mothers pawns(one of my siblings) physically assaulted me a month or so ago after I dared to stand up to them. I went straight to my parents (foolishly no doubt) and told them I had been hit. I had promoted my daughter to have lots of contact with my family daft bugger that I am. Like I said you let your guard down with people like this. :(
After the assualt I decided not to see my sibling again and limit my daughters contact with shorter, less frequent visits, with me always in supervision.
The pressure on me started to be wracked up. Why was I "driving a wedge" between my daughter and her uncle/aunty (note- I am using either or masculine and feminine descriptors as I dont want to be too obvious with descriptions of people involved). My mother started calling my phone asking for my daughter alot and then she started coming round looking for her. One day when I was out, DH not really realising how controlling mother is, succombed to her and let out daughter go with my mother. When he told me, my heart sunk. Shit I know there would be trouble. After a long working day I went to get DD from mothers.
I said "sorry I have just come for DD, I have had a very long day and cant stay." With DD watching, my mother jabbed fingers into my back and said if you walk out that door with her you are NEVER coming back. "Mother, I have no quarrel with you. I am sorry, I am tired, I need to go home. " As DD and I left she pushed us out the door. Since then DD has asked me on a few occassions why granny shouted, we were not allowed to see her any more. I just try to make like of it and tell DD grown ups sometimes say really silly things, they dont mean.

DH and I agreed that if once more DD was confused and upset that would be it, only limited supervised contact or even a total cut off would be necessary. We would not have DD hurt by my families fuckwittery. They have damaged me enough, they are not having her.

Two days later, mother was back knocking on my door, nice as pie like nothing had happened. She wanted to take DD. Ooops sorry she was just going to have a bath. Since then I have tried to gently curtail the visits. Making excuses, not being in, not answering the phone. It became a bit of a siege really, fearing a knock on the door or phone call and a potential show down.

I do not want an argument as I know any scrap of dissent will be lapped up with glee, she's a grand martyr and loves drama.

After a week of DD not seeing them I brought DD around this evening and let her stay with them for a short while.
When DD got home I asked DD to come upstairs, she could choose my PJ's and then we both could put our PJ's on, it was nearly bedtime. DD completely out of context said in a serious and upset voice, "you're a big fat rat". DD and I have a very close relationship, I was gobsmacked she said that. I said "darling, that wasnt nice, why did you say that?" She said looking really upset, "Uncle said it" She only fucking 4 years old, poor darling. :(

Thoughts anyone? My instinct now is that I am done with this situation. I have to protect DD, I will not let them hurt her again.

NowhereMum sorry to hear what you have been through. It is hard when our own DC sort of become involved isn't it. Can't advise really as I'm new here myself and struggling with similar sorts of decisions, but I hope you find a way of creating the distance and space you need and protecting your dd too.

I have been doing on lot of thinking about this this past week. I have begun to see more and more how the effects of how I was treated as a child effect my behaviour, feelings, thoughts moods etc today. So much of my difficulties are rooted in feelings of low/no self estemm, feeling I will never be good enough etc....and although I have a decent job, which I am actually good at...it's almost as if I never REALLY believe I can do it, despite good feedback from people etc....I reaqlised that actually deep down I am always thinking "I'm not really good at this job, I just seem to get away with it somehow without people noticing" It's as if I cant really ever 100% believe I can be good at anything - ever. How sad is that?
I have commited to carry on trying to work through all of this. I am also going to make big efforts this year to be kinder to myself, to look after myself more, pamper myself from time to time etc...(not easy with many small DC to look after LOL)

Now my question for tonight....I live a good distance from my parents and sister. We don't see each other very often. But we do speak on the phone once a week or so. Since begining to process this stuff, and since returning from our visit at Christmas I havent felt able to speak to them. I have basically just been ignoring the phone. But I need to deal with it better I think. I am not sure I want to permenasntly cut contact with them - havent thought that far yet, but I do feel I need to be "no contact" for a while whilst I begin to get my head round all this....but how do I explain this to them? shoud I write to them? ring them - but then I'll get sucked into a big discussion I dont want, email them maybe? I really dont feel ready to talk about this with any of them yet, but just cant go on with trying to be "civil" to them either "to keep the peace"...help...I cant keep ignoring the phone - they have rung 3 times today alone.....

Why do i feel such confudence and peace? Admittedely I purposely stat away from people as much as I can so nobody hurts me or implies I am a strange inadequate person same as I feel alone. The last few days i fel OK (ish). Might be hormonal.

To everyone that has posted recently, keep posting, reading, we;re here reading too. You are not alone, you are brave and strong x

have contacted my sister to tell her I needed some space, to do with stuff I was trying to workout...she was amazingly nice about it, said she was very worried about me, was I alright etc.... and now I feel AWFUL. I am sure she has no idea that it is stuff to do with parents and her that I am on about ......
I feel so confused....she can be so horrible, and so manipulative, but then can come across as so nice too.
What if I have got all this wrong, what if it is all me being ridiculous, over reacting etc.... I was feeling quite positive over last couple of days and now feel rubbish again. I have no idea what to think. Now I need to decide what to tell my parents....have a million messages from my mother sounding wounded and hurt at my not answering her calls....oh god, it's all such a muddle......

Raspberry - I've read your posts and have been posting myself on another thread about difficult mothers. Christmas churned things up for me too and I have been avoiding my mum since then in order to get headspace - so I totally see where you are coming from. Your sisters response in unsettling, and she may be manipulating you again by being so nice, or she may be genuinely worried - who knows?! - put the important thing is you have told her the situation and why you are out of touch at the moment - so job done.
You need to make a quick call to your mum saying the same thing - really quick and efficient along the lines of -'sorry not returned your calls but just need some space at moment' then put the phone down before she can suck you in! Job done. They know you're alive and well - that's fine for now.
By the way, I need to make a similar call to my mum too but not getting the emotional blackmail like you're getting. Mine needs the break from me and my truth seeking as much as I need a break from her and her truth avoidance.
Good luck and keep writing. xx

I'm poking my head through the door. Just starting to deal with my upbringing having now got 3 young dc's myself...it's made me reflect on the parenting I had. Very scary place to be. Had a session with a psychologist today for the first time. Was quite uplifting and enlightening. Just starting to read the toxic parents book.

rasberry - can I just say that is EXACTLY how I feel and have felt most of my life, with the exception it's just my parents that I think are toxic (my sister believes this strongly). It's just so messy and complicated isn't it?!

How do I know it's them not me?

itsconfusing - having DCs made me question my upbringing and having DD2 triggered a proper bout of depression. I had a poor relationship with my mum and she in turn had an appalling relationship with her sister and mother. So my blueprint of female family relationships was awful and I was terrified that history would repeat itself with my DDs.
Anyway, the answer to your question:

1. you are insightful enough to question things
2. you don't want the same to happen with your own family.
3. Do you manage to have healthy relationships with others outside your family?
4. Do your parents manage to have healthy relationships with others? Good luck with your counselling.

70sLady I'm struggling with a bad bout of depression at the moment, dd is 11 mo and I'm just trying to wonder how on earth I've ever thought my mum's treatment of her dd's normal?!

1. yes
2. definitely not
3. I'm not really sure, I don't have many friends, no one really close and I'm mean to dh...hence my psychology app, not even in my family really , although it's slowly getting better.
4. absolutely not, neither within family.

Thank you, my session with the psychologist was very enlightening, I'm seeing her again next week.

I realised today through talking my teenage years that I was actually kept alone for such long periods of time. Having had a lifetime of moving house often due to army, then moving schools constantly. I never developed a relationship with family, never made long term friends. I've only ever had my mum. Thank god I met dh, much to their dismay and lack of approval. But more importantly thank goodness they had to move away from us due to work commitments. They're in the process of trying to get us to move to where they have re-located to! I dread to think how our lives would go if I allow them as much control over my life as they've had in recent years.

Hi itsconfusing, it does sound like your lifestyle growing up hindered you from forming friendships. This obv made you more dependant on you mum than 'normal' and enabled her to have excessive control over you life. She is obv finding it hard to let go of the control, hence asking you move nearereand not respecting your choice of DH.
You sound lovely and I'm sure you will be able to form friendships once you've started to deal with your issues.
I was so mean to my DH Iin tha past - counselling made me realise that I was displacing the anger I felt for my parents onto him. Also my mum never has a good word to say about my dad so it was learned behaviour too. (I am so much nicer to him now I realise that) I am lucky he has been so patient with me!
The fact they your parents have no friends is a big sign that it,s not you, it's them .

Hi all. When I last posted on here a couple of months ago I was feeling really strong. Now I really don't feel strong at all. I really, really need some encouragement that I am doing the right thing.

Christmas eve, 3 envelopes drop on the door mat hand delivered, 1 for each of the DC. Christmas cards with "For You, Granddaughter/Son" inside some money, way over the top amounts and addressed to each of the children as "To Dearest .......". Then followed by " We miss and love you so much" etc etc and finished with "With lots and lots of love from Nanny and Grandad".

My Birthday is a few days after Christmas. A card arrived in the post. A plainish card with some flowers on and inside read "To mampam, from mum and dad."

I know that the only reason a card was sent to me was so she can be seen to be doing the right thing. It's so hard, I just want to scream at people when they ask me if the DC got anything for Christmas from her (they didn't receive anything the previous Christmas). I know people don't know the full extent of the situation(and mother is playing on that fact) but I just want to scream at them "can't you see what she is doing here? Playing a very clever game. Yes she sent me a card for my birthday but compare it to the Christmas cards she gave the DC. She never acknowledged me or DH at Christmas with a card."

She is doing all of this to make herself look good and succeeding. She's not interested in me. But I sound like a mad person trying to explain this to anyone.

I don't know why I am letting this bother me, it just really annoys me that she seems to be nice to anyone except me. She seems to be trying to infiltrate friends I've got on Facebook too and being super duper nice to them. Yes I've blocked her before you ask but I've been told what she's doing. She's even befriended my ex H's 15 year old cousin and has asked her to go over to her house when my niece (of similar age) is there.

It's sick isn't it that she is nice to everyone but obviously can't bare to be nice to her own daughter?

I'm sorry to bring this up again, I know there are lots of newbies on this thread who need help. I would be grateful for just a little encouragement that I'm not going mad here.

Mampam

Its not you, its her. That just reaffirms to me how toxic your mother is; your Dad is likely to play the role of bystander here.

You are doing the right things here. Did your children see the cards?. I would have returned it all unopened.

May I also suggest you deregister from FB too.

My MIL is like this; its game playing and done by her to make her look good. On handing me my Christmas present she made comments in front of DH and DS to the effect that it was bigger than the others she'd given out (to my DH and DS) but that it was cheap. I see her for what she is (she is also a patronising toxic old bat) and ignore her powerplays.

Sorry to just jump in. I need to get something out about my dad. I made the mistake of opening a letter he sent me recently. I don't know why I didn't just throw it in the bin. He sent something which clearly showed he was taking no responsibility for all the damage he and my mother caused me, resulting in both physical and emotional ill health to me as an adult. I had written to him telling him I held them responsible for the problems I am having now and referred him to some of the books and articles that link child abuse and health problems in adulthood.

I knew he wouldn't believe me and accept responsibility. But I thought he would at least accept that that is what I thought even if he disagreed. I stupidly didn't think he would continue to think as he always done that my problems are due to outside factors, ie nothing to do with him, and write to me to tell me this.

It has really upset me. He has totally ignored what I said in my letter, refused to accept there may be some truth in it, and instead has written to me telling me my problems are due to something else entirely and nothing to do with his years of emotional abuse and my mothers neglect.

I have definately learnt my lesson now. That I need to throw any more letters from him straight into the bin.

Hi Attilla

It was actually DS who found the cards on the doormat. I didn't give them to the children until the day after Boxing Day as he wouldn't let it go. I think he knew who they were from and therefore knew there would possibly be money inside as that is what he had received for his birthday. Kids are fickle I know and DS is saving up for something!

I haven't sent the cards back to my mother for the reason that if I did it would give her something even more to play on. I have just ignored her and not acknowledged any of her actions.

However a couple of months ago when it was DD1's birthday, unbeknown to me she wrote a thank you note to my mother and gave it to one of her friends at school who lives near my mother to post through the letterbox. DD1 thought she was doing the right thing by being polite and saying thank you for her birthday money. This resulted in my mother and Stepfather waiting for DD1 outside of her school and collaring her as she was walking to get on the bus. They gave her a card with the usual "we love you so much and miss you etc etc". I then had to explain to DD1 exactly why we don't have anything to do with my mother. I had to tell her things I never wanted her to know and she sobbed her little heart out, in fact we sobbed together but I had to try and make her understand. I guess to DD1 it was a case of mum and nan don't get on but of course my mother couldn't be that bad in DD1's eyes as she gives her money for her birthday and writes that she loves and misses her!

Sorry about your experience, jasmine. It sucks.

I believe that the purpose of letters such as yours, recommended in books like Toxic Parents, is not to effect a change in the toxic person (...they wouldn't be toxic if they could empathise or change), but to force a situation where the ever-hopeful non-PD family member is hit hard with the realisation that, no, despite their best efforts, the toxic person just really, really won't change their behaviour or even take responsibility for it.

Mampam-I think it is probably a good thing that you have explained to your dd abouth the background. Of course it's the sort of thing we want to protect our children from knowing but your mother and step-father didn't allow you to make a choice in regards to that.
As for other people, I think you need to stop worrying about what other people think. You have had to deal with things in regards to your parents that they don't know about and it is not up to you to have to explain. Stand firm and know that you are doing the right thing for yourself and your family and that is the important thing, the thing that matters.

ANY form of contact from my parents/sisters will always be harmful to me. Because they all operate from the basis of dismissing/ignoring/not thinking about my feelings. Until their fundamental attitudes/beliefs change, they will always be harmful to me. But their attitudes are unlikely to ever change as they are not aware of them. Their attitudes are ingrained, a part of their make up, and they lack any self awareness or insight and so will never realise their ingrained beliefs are wrong.

Thank you. I do know it's best for me and best for my family if we have nothing to do with my mother. It's been about 14 months now and I can honestly say that in that time, for the first time I have been me. I can act like me. I am a better mother and wife and never want to go back.

Just been having a wobbly few days of feeling guilty somehow. Feeling a bit cross with myself as I know this is what she wants and is trying to get to me by using the DC.

Atilla think you are right FB needs to go!

Jasmine you have just summed it up for yourself and for me. Thank you.

mampam

That conversation must have been very difficult for both you and DD1 that particular afternoon. It sounds to me like this child is a teenager (you mention her being met by the gruesome twosome outside school whilst she was walking to the bus); how did she react to being told why.

Just keep on ignoring your toxic mother and stepfather. A Nasty pair who are not above dragging the children into all their games.

mampam, my mum is playing the same trick on me

sends lovely cards but why when shes not even speaking to me ?

because she can say to other people, ( in whiney voice) well I send cards but I get no thanks....

I will come back another time and give you some more details of my lovely mother but have to pick up DS now