"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[garlicBread]

It's November 2011, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Atilla, DD1 is a very clued up 12 year old. I think she reacted how any kid would, I was basically telling her about a world that is totally new/alien to her and she was in almost disbelief. She found it particularly upsetting that I had never been told I was loved by my mother. I tell DC's I love them about a million times a day (totally over the top!) and now ever since our conversation DD always says it straight back. To be honest I think we have a better understanding of each other now, a closeness that I've certainly never had with my mother (not surprisingly) or any other female (I've always found it easier to get on with men than women, less complicated etc.).
I told her that it doesn't matter that I never had any love as a child because I get all the love I will ever need from the family I have now. I also told her that if my mother and SF turn up at school again that she is to be polite and make sure she gets straight on the bus because we do not ignore people. We are not like nan and grandad we are above that and she agreed. Not sure what I'm going to do though if they do turn up at school again.

prettywhiteguitar you've hit the nail on the head there, so your mother can whine to people that she's had no thanks! Look forward to hearing about your mother and no doubt finding the similarities!

mampam,

I would be having a word with the school office about these two particularly if they approach your DD again in such a manner. She deserves to go home without harrassment.

BTW and from my own point of view, yes it bloody well does matter that you did not receive love from them as a child!!!. You were utterly failed by these two, two people who are also not above involving their grandchildren (the money to my mind is being used to buy their affections) in their toxic games of power and control.

Yes I totally agree with you Attila that the money given to DC's is trying to buy their affection. My mother was exactly the same before I cut ties with her always giving the DC's things even if it was the biggest load of crap. What I don't understand is if she's going to all this trouble to get their affections, is it because she wants to see them?? If so, they are children they have to have my permission so you would have thought she would be trying to keep me sweet??? Yes, I guess it's all about the mind games though.

Thanks for saying it does matter that I didn't receive love as a child. Hardest thing about it was watching them shower all the love and attention onto my brother. Don't think it would be so hard if I hadn't have witnessed this and heard them telling him that he was loved everyday.

Will definitely go in and talk to the school if they try it again. Also thought I may log it with the Police too. Nothing they can probably do, just want it on file just in case.

mampam thats typical controlling behaviour, trying to see your dd1 behind your back. As long as your dd knows the truth about the situation she will be able to deal with it, especially with a caring mum like you.

As for my story....my mum is a bully

shes got her own way by bullying me, my brother and my dad all her adult life, i think she learned it from her own mother but I really don't care.

One of the more long term projects she had going on started when I was about 8 (?) she told me one day when I was off sick from school that my dad had had an affair and that all men were pathetic...this tirade against men has gone on all through her life, they are either total saints or bastards

she told me this knowing full well I would be horrified and told me a few more details about it but really more about how she had told him if he left she would never let him see his children again, so he stayed. As far as I can find out from my brother my dad says that he didn't have an affair and that he certainly wouldnt ever leave his children and wife.

Now because of this I totally withdrew from my dad and basically didn't really have a relationship with him till I was past uni and at work. Also by this point I understood why and what she had done to me and my dad. Basically still punishing my dad for an emotional affair he had (? not really sure as he has always said to my mum that absolutely nothing happened, as as far as I can find out the only evidence is that once she called work and he was in the pub )

apart from this my childhood was spent tip toeing around the house to avoid upsetting this woman who would rant and rave about minor offences (untidyness, being bad at maths etc) despite the fact that I was a good child - i cleaned the bathroom properly folded ewashing and lots of other helpful things, I was a bad child, just like my father, manipulative, opportunistic, weak, unaffectionate, apparently I would never sit on my mother knee as a toddler ( could probably sense evil at an early age ! ) and i "set the mood of the house" at age seven - I was a very sullen child

by contrast my brother was good, this then switched around when we were adults - he is now the scapegoat despite being an army captain with his own flat and a lovely person, he is bad with money and she will gossip about him at any opportunity.

Anyway the current situation is that my dad died 4yrs ago the day after my first ds was born so she suddenly wanted to be around, I has totally distanced myself except phonecalls and we managed an ok relationship if I ignored 90% of what she said. So this year I broke down just before the birth of my dd I could take her selfish shit anymore and said unless she had counselling I wouldnt be able to have a relationship with her

she is a narc so obviously thats never going to happen as she is far superior to any psychologist ! So we are waiting, I had an arguement in November to which she then didnt phone till a week before christmas to complain to my brother that I said she was selfish, he repeated what I said that we woudl see her until shed had counselling and she basically ignored it.

So I had the best christmas ever !! No mother and I turned the ringer off to make sure she couldnt ruin it for us.

She then rang last week to see " if I can see the children" in the most pathetic voice ever, I said that we needed to talk, she said that she didnt want to and we just has a huge arguement.

I cannot tell you how cathartic it was to call this woman a bully and a nasty piece of work to her face.

one more thing I just have to share was that after the birth of my dd this may she didnt contact me for 12 weeks as I didnt post a birthday card......

and breathe ! Sorry for huge prattling post but I have never really written it down before

prettywhiteguitar I bet that feels good to get it all out . Definitely similarities in our upbringing. My mother was absolutely obsessed with having a perfect, tidy house. So we all walked on eggshells so as not to get a speck of dirt out of place. I too used to clean, hoover, iron and cook but always to be told I hadn't done it right. My school results were never good enough because I wasn't the best. I was a good all rounder at school but wasn't in the top 5% so that was never good enough for mother.

My step dad was an ally to begin with but that all changed when I was 13. I remember he and my mother had been rowing for days which ended with my mother dissappearing. I can remember my SF out searching for her. Hours later the phone rang, I answered and it was my mother. She told me where she was and that if SF didn't meet her there in 20 minutes she would go and never come back.
He went to meet her and when he came home (alone) about 2 hours later he was absolutely furious with myself and my older brother. Basically my mother had told him she had left home because we (my older brother and I) didn't love her enough!

I think it's really good that you and your brother are pulling together on this. My older brother cut me off because he was trying to use the kids as a way of getting me to make up with my mother and I wouldn't have it. The more I think about it the more I realise that he has turned out to be pretty much just like her.

It's funny isn't it how narc mothers have a habit of turning nasty when they don't get their own way.

Glad you had a nice Christmas without her I've had 14 months without my mother and it's been the best months of my life!

Is it normal for controlling parent's to be lovely whenever you are doing what they want? My parents are lovely if I don't mention anything that they may disapprove of but if I say I want to do x,y, and z that they don't approve of there will be serious tension and unnecessary comments! It makes me think I am wrong whenever there has been a 'quiet peaceful' time.

"as she is far superior to any psychologist" I know how this feels. Father is superior to everyone. He bitches and gossips behind so many people's (peoples'??) backs. Though of course he would never admit to this.

"but wasn't in the top 5% so that was never good enough"

I had the potential to be in that top 5% but I felt so pressurised that I struggled to actually work and concentrate. My guidance teacher even asked me with no prompting at all if I felt very pressured by my parents to be the best!

Oh and whenever myself or siblings comment on something we didn't like about our childhood or say something in a slightly negative but not accusing way about our childhood we get the old

'Aaaaah you were so hard done by'

I am really shocked at how opening one letter from dad has thrown me off balance. Before then I really felt like I had drawn a line under my past and was ready to move on.

I find it totally incomprehensible as to how impossible it is to get through to these kinds of people. They really do totally ignore anything they don't want to hear and just carry on as they have always done, never ever stopping to think whether there might be some truth in what someone else has said and reflecting upon their own behaviour.

My mother, even after 5+ years of no contact with me, still does not seem to know why I hate her. She has no comprehension about how she totally let me down as a parent. How can this be? What is going on in her head? How can she not remember standing there while my dad shouted and swore at me, told me he hated me, when I was 10? She admitted she she was a coward for not standing up for herself. She seems totally oblivious to the fact that she should have stood up for me. I just don't get how she can't see this. It's not as if my dad's abuse was hidden, it wasn't, she witnessed it all. I didn't exist as far as she was concerned is the only explanation that fits. But I did exist. How can a mother not 'see' one of her children and yet be able to see her other children and be a loving, caring mother to them? It is all unfathomable to me. But I can't stop trying to work it out. I don't think even my mother knows. Or she would blame me and say it was my fault that she couldn't get on with me because I was a difficult child. Maybe I was 'difficult' because I was trying to get her love and attention which were not forthcoming. But she would never see it this way. Never look at her own behaviour. Much easier to blame me which she still does to this day.

I have lurked for ages and am never sure if I have MH issues or the relationship with my parents is screwed. Or probably both. My mum is always very generous financially, but when we are together/ phone calls I feel that she is being cruel. When she phones, I feel she always asks questions that she knows my answer will be "No", and so just makes me feel more and more of a failure. I have a 4 month old and just3 year old. My DH is out of the house 7-7 and I have no family/ friends/ support near by. I do my best. But she'll ask repeatedly things like " have you been to your exercise class? Have you been to the bank? have you been out and bought a new tumble dryer? have you started your diet? have you booked your weekend away, etc? And if I am chatty then I can tell she's not listening etc and she then asks me the same thing over and over again ( generally in the hope that I will respond in the way that she wants). Or she cuts me off mid- thrust with an "anyway..." and then says I don't speak much or asks if I " have anything else to report" like I'm being interrogated rather than having some kind of a conversation.
I guess this is the tip of the iceberg - they were very very controlling when I was younger and make it quite clear what they sacrificed to send me to a good school and barely hide their disappointment that I have chosen family over a career after a promising start.
Latterly I have started to remember things which probably further add to my low self esteem - like being on holiday and told I was fat in my bikini, or greedy, or something like that that caused me age 12 to decide I didn't want to eat. And who was it that controlled my diet! They are still completely body obsessed now and male my sister and I feel like shit. My sis is a gorgeous 24 year old trendy Wendy, toned size 10-12. Yet they say that her bum is big. She is gorgeous!
Oh gosh I've never written this down before and could go on. I have tried to talk to DH about it but he just doesn't get it. Does this sound like I'm making a mountain out of a fairly normal childhood or am I allowed to feel down? Either way, what should I do? I have tried to pull my mum and she just says I am mean to her. How can I make this better? I try so hard to be so much better with my boys but mostly feel like I'm failing.

Sorry if that doesn't all make sense. Long post on my phone, bfing, no editing!

There's no apologising on the Stately Homes thread, china. Your feelings are totally valid.

Keep talking. Your parents are clearly disordered individuals who didn't care the hurt they were causing to a child - their own child! - while you were growing up, and continue to trample on your feelings today.

Have you checked the links and books listed on page 1 of this thread? They can help you understand and deal with your past, and find strategies for coping with your parents in the present.

It can be a long journey, but it's worth it since it leads to a healthier and happier you.

I have decided that my dad is not going to have the last word. I'm going to write and tell him once again that I hold him and my mother responsible for the problems I have today. And I'm going to send him some articles that show the link between childhood abuse and adult mental health and physical health problems. And if he writes to me after that I will return his letters unopened.

I don't know why I haven't done this already. So many times I've come across articles and research that for eg link adult depression with childhood abuse, and thought, I wish my parents could read this. They would have to take notice, because it wouldn't be me telling them they're responsible, but a third party. I know they still won't take any notice or change their beliefs, but I'll feel good for finally having said things that I have wanted to say to them for a long time.

Thats a great idea jasminrice as long as you don't expect anything from them, it feels great to show them what you feel they did to you. But they will never change or probably back down. It felt great to call my mum a bully, which is at the escence of all the nasty behaviour she exhibits and explain how her bullying affected me and my brother but she will never ever take it on board......she "only did her best" "your father worked shifts" "I had pmt" hummmm strange how the pmt has lasted 33 years and you still have never bother to go to the gp about it (also the gp knows nothing btw shes ignorant according to my mum, so I said go to another one, of course that fell on deaf ears)

what you said about your mum stilll doesn't understand why you're not speaking to her rang a bell with me. I can explain till I am blue in the face and she will just let me talk and then tell me i'M WRONG, then talk over me and talk louder if I carry on talking

She has been known to carry on a conversation over ds having a major tantrum just talking louder and louder til I have to tell her to stop while I deal with him.

oh and shthread yes if you are behaving they can be nice.....just dont disagree or ask them to do anything or try to have a conversation about yourself without getting interupted

ooh this is sooooo carthatic !

chinateacup my mum has been very generous financially since I had children, but that is just another way of controlling you not caring about you I've found

if your dp can't understand it because hes never been the target of any of her abuse, my dp struggled till she came to stay and one evening let her guard down and was particularly viciuos towards a teenage girl on the tv, she also was caught lying to him

thouse instances and with a few tearful conversations form me about my childhood has helped him understand. It is difficult for him because his parents are so lovely but obviously still do annoying parenty things which can be confused with some of the things these kind of parents do, but there is a line.

My mum is also very good at putting a normal act on if front of dp's parents and although they found her very dominating they cannot understand why me and my brother aren't in touch

pwg, thank you, I know nothing I say will ever get through to my parents. I want to say it for me, because I know it's the truth. I want to tell them the truth and it's up to them whether they accept it (I know they won't) or continue to live with the lies they believe. But it's their loss. Because until and unless they accept the truth, they will never see me or their grandchildren.

do you know what thats a really brave thing that you're doing, standing up to them is so hard

whoo hoo to freedom !

((ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow))

is

totally

AMAZING

You've helped me SOOO much

THANK YOU

:) :) :)

XXX

Pwg, thanks again. I really don't feel brave at all. I think I have reached a point where I feel very secure in myself. I know it's them and not me, even though there's 4 of them (parents and siblings) who would disagree. My DH fully supports me and seems to love me no matter what which gives me a lot of strength.

Hi Jasminerice,

tmsb (((hugs to you too my lovely friend of old!))). Yes, you may well be right, my parents may not read my articles much less take them on board. But having my say is very, very important to me (and most importantly little me) so I do intend to write my letter and send the articles. Any response from them will be returned unopened.

Jasminerice,

You going to bat for Little You is a dynamic I understand. and is the point. But you know the script, right? And Little You knows the script, too.

So
As a catharsis, with full knowledge that it is what it is, iykwim, then the drill may be useful in embossing the truth.

One last time, one last time-it becomes rote drill and hopefully the emotional detachment can emerge from that.

Good luck. Sorry if my message is muddled, 3yo wants dome youtube thing about a tomato that sings....

Low self esteem but have achieved a fair bit in my life.

Long story short my mother adored my father and married him as the weaker party. We are Irish. My parents met and lived in London for ten years. Made shit loads of money on property and moved home. Whereupon my mother's career took off and my father's took a slow nose dive, a dive I suppose. Mother became career and business obsessed. Father became an alcoholic. We never had money problems. I am the third of 3 girls, fourth child. I feel mother was loving, when she had time for us, but was money obsessed. She groomed me to be my alcoholic father's keeper. Alot of weight on a young child's shoulders. My father retired when I was 14, mother was obsessed about her business at that stage. Eldest sister was beautiful and wild, middle sister no self esteem and timid, me daddy's girl.The poisoned chalice. Followed by a lovely younger brother many years later.

That's about it really I feel mostly bitter about my mother, she is lovely but she basically offloaded an alcoholic onto my shoulders when I was 14 because we had a 'bond' and I could 'calm him down'.He liked being around me. It meant that I hung around with him alot and he was a loving father but alsoselfish and self obsessed. I was his keeper in my formative years. Looking after him and my younger brother because my molther was too busy (running away from the problem).

Now my father doesn't drink anymore and if I ever mentioned anything I would be in the wrong. I feel betrayed by all mof them to some extent (except my brother sho is a dote).

Molly, have you read any books such as Toxic Parents and/or had counselling?

Your mother should not have abandoned you to your alcoholic father. Keep posting.