"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[garlicBread]

It's November 2011, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

marshmallo

No need whatsoever to apologise, you can write as much or as little as you want.

Thank you to both of you.

Attila
can I ask you, so from my description, do you think my mum has some sort of personality disorder????
Because I used to think she was just very, very bitter but am now moving on to thinking her behaviour is so far removed from normal that there must be something wrong with her.

Well its not beyond the realms of possibility re a personality disorder but you can reclaim your life from this woman who has continually blamed you for all her problems in life. You are not in any way to blame for your mother's abusive treatment of you.

Hi mrshuxtable and marshmallow I'm new here too, have posted a couple of times, but also not really sure where to start with it all

have now read Toxic Families, and Will I ever be Good Enough - which was actually very amazing and reulted in LOTS of lightbulb moments for me.
I still have lots to unravel about my past....it isnt really clear cut (is it ever?!)
so far my thoughts which I'm going to dump here in the hope it helps!

I do believe my Mum did as she did because of her own difficult past and her own issues, for that I have some sympathy.

However the way she treated me was HORRIBLE. It was cruel and hurtful and has damaged me in many ways.

She clearly had mental health issues herself - and in fact spent long periods of my teenage years in mental health hospitals.Again for this I have sympathy, but it didnt lessen the impacts of her horrendous behaviour towards me.

Not sure where my Dad fits in all of this - to some extent I can see him in the role of Enabler. I did have a better relationship with him when younger - but find him very hurtful and extremely controlling now. Think perhaps below the surface he may have been quite controlling/bullying of my Mum in subtle ways???although on the surface it always appeared other way round. Anyway he did very little to improve things for me as a child. He has let me down, and now can do nothing but but criticise me and my life choices and oddly I feel more anger towards him currenlty than my Mum , although most of the hurst/abuse I remember was at the hands of my Mum.....very odd....need to think about this more....

My only sister was definitely "the golden Child" where my Mum was concerned. She too though has been badly damaged by it all. She now definitely displays NPD traits and has joined in the toxic critical way of treating me.I actually really miss my little sister - the little girl I used to love and play with when we were little.

I am shocked at how little Detail I can recall about my childhood - why is this???

For the first time ever I have realised why I find it difficult to really relax, to have fun, to laugh or properly enjoy anything EVER. I was never allowed to enjoy anything as child - I never learned how

I am begining to understand some of my life choices in the context of my past - both good and bad.

I am determined to pursue all this, to grieve for my past and to allow myelf to heal to stop my past inflicting any more damage on my future - and most importantly to ensure I can fully be the mother I always wanted to be to my gorgeous dc.

MrsH, I'm glad your father has been there in your life but did suspect that your mother would have twisted your view of him. But that is in the past which is a good thing. As for step-mothers getting in the way, I know all about that, sadly mine is still married to my father.
I don't know how you could go about apologising but I'm sure at some level your father already knows why you were the way you were.
Raspberry, if your mother has mental health issues (not that that excuses her, I have issues but that does not entitle me to poison my children, neither would I want to) then it is most probable in light of the way your father is behaving now that he was also goading your mother.

frida yes, I think you are probably right.
It is all very confusing.
Certain things I remember very clearly. I remember the vile comments my mother made repeatedly to me, the times she hit me. The names she called me. The times she woke us up at 3am yelling about the house not being tidy enough. The screaming rages - at me and my sister and at my dad.The sreaming fits she had at us when out in public. Me being too embarrassed to EVER have friends round.Her telling me she wished I'd never been born. Her blaming me for how she was.
I remember her being away in hospital for long periods of time, and me trying to run the house and take care of younger sister. I remember as we got older Mum treating sister as "golden child" and them "ganging up" on me with snide comments etc...
I remember the time my Mum ran away and my Dad phoning the police to report her missing after she didnt return for 2 days. I remember my dad crying. I remember her phoning the house to tell my sister where the Christmas presents were hidden because she was going to kill herself. I remeber the police bringing her home several days later.
I remember ambulances in the middle of the night and her (minor)over doses.
I also remember my Dad "seeming" to be trying. I remember him sort of "confiding" in me a lot about Mums irrational behavour, and discussing how "mad" she was with me, amost felt like it was me and my Dad against my sister and my Mum.
But it wasnt really that simple was it. My poor Mum was seriously messed up. Not that I realised that at the time, nor does it lessen the effects of being treated like that by your own mother.But I dont know what really went on between my Mum and Dad. I used to wish they would get divorced - I never understood why they stayed together when it seemed they hated each other so much.
But now I listen to the way my Dad talks to my Mum and it is just awful. He is actually vile to her. But then I have heard her be vile to him too.....But he is such a judgemental critical person - I dont know if he has always been like this and I just didnt notice before or whether he has been changed over the years? How will I ever really know what went on?? We NEVER talk about any of it - it is never even mentioned. When I think of everything that happened - and then we just carry on with the pretence that we were a perfectly happy middle class family. Its madness.
How much do I need to try to unravel what was actually happening or to understand? Is it possible to begin the journey to recovery when everything is so confused and my memory so patchy? Have any of you managed to talk about the past successfully with your parents??
i have thought about writing a letter - but not sure where to start.....
anyway.....enough waffling for now, thanks anyone who read this far!posting now before I delete!sorry for any typos!

MrsH, the way you described your mother calling you her abuser when you started to hit back at her once you were a bit older, after years of her hitting you, struck such a chord with me when I read it yesterday.

That's EXACTLY what my dad did to me, but I've never been able to articulate it as well as you. After years of staying silent whilst my dad emotionally abused me, I also started verbally hitting back when I got older. And then he used this against me, telling the rest of the family that I was a rude, unpleasant daughter.

It was easy for him to turn my sisters against me as they weren't abused by him, nor did they witness him abusing me. So he succeeded in making me look like a horrible, nasty, grumpy, angry and argumentative person, when all I was doing was reacting naturally and normally to his horrific, terrifying and hurtful abuse.

TRSmithfield, I just wanted to tell you about my counsellor. At first she seemed to really 'get' me as mostly I talked about my dad and she seemed to have no problem in validating my experience of him as an abuser. But she seemed to change when I started to talk about my mother and how I felt invisible to her and how nasty, cold and cruel she was to me. My counsellor couldn't seem to accept my mother was at fault and tried to place the blame on me, saying I must have been a difficult child to bond with and things must have been difficult for my mother when I was very young (we had emigrated) and that was an excuse for her behaviour towards me.

Having felt very ' safe' with that counsellor, I started feeling very uncomfortable and angry with her. But I had been seeing her for about 4 months by then and because things had been very good until then, I didn't at first question her attitude but told myself I had mis interpreted her and/or maybe she was right, maybe I had been a problem child etc.

But my gut instinct told me she was wrong and finally I stopped seeing her. But my experience has shown me how even a good counsellor can cause harm, depending on which particular issue you are talking about.

The taboo about believing that a mother can be cruel and uncaring towards her child runs so very deep. I'll have to 'test' my next counsellor and see whether she subscribes to the taboo before proceeding.

Raspberry, I have managed to talk to my dad about SOME of the things that happened whilst I was an adolescent and even then only partially. I did get him to understand that the way he reacted when I told I had made a suicide attempt the previous week (his response was "that was stupid") was the wrong thing to do and that if any of his 'current' children should have problems like that what the correct response should be. He also admitted that he and my mother made mistakes (refusing me pocket money, not allowing me any freedom before sixteen but also not having any consistent boundaries in place) but other things like how manipulative my step-mother was in regards to his and my relationship would never be worth discussing because he didn't get it at the time and I think he is even less likely to now.
As for my mother, you don't discuss the past, she is never in the wrong and she should never have to apologise, in her head anyway, so I would never even try!
Acceptance is one of the things I've been working on over the past few years, if your never going to have clear memories and understanding over what went on in your childhood then the thing to do is try and accept that (bloody hard though it may be). If you think you might be able to discuss things with your parents and/or sister then it might be worth trying but don't have any real expectation of them trying to see it from your point of view or of being able to clarify what YOU remember. Memory is very subjective and therefore if you can't match up your experiences to someone elses, your better off not trying and just dealing with the way YOU remember things, because for you, that's the important one.

Hello! I would like to join this wonderful thread if you will have me . I just got to page 6 this morning and backed out of the app by mistake - a sign I need to plough on to the day..
I guess I have been lurking Stately Homes for a couple of years now but would be really grateful for help and work with me and hopefully be able to help and encourage others also. I am trying to write something non-rambly - but is hitting me hard although I am finally ready to confront it head on at last..

We are out for the day today so I will be back!

((hugs)) to all :)

thechantedhood WRITE WHAT YOU FEEL no such thing as rambly here GET IT OUT.

Most importantly it helps YOU and then people reading.

It's a good record so you are able to refer back.

Nobody judges grammar, length of posts.

Sorry not much help but i feel numb, Also this morning lieing in bed i thinking about my life from childhood to now i realised that aside from family holidays, beautiful scenery, holding my baby son, laughing with my schoolfriends and my best friend, I have no good memories. People were only in my life because they had nobody better or nothing better to do. It is true actually.

i have to make new memories for the future. I guess a light in my spirit died whwn my son was diagnosed as blind and severly mentally imapaired. I'm still spirited soul just the oomph to get going and look forward without seeing every new possible experience as domed or gone wrong is hard to shake.

Being a lone carer is very hard, i had no visitors or phone calls all Christmas and even though its isn't the first year this has happened and I should be used to it, I never feelused to it as I'm a sociable person.

Therapy for the first and last twelve months has left me in a bit of a daze, lot more peaceful. I feel as if i'm under water. As if all experiences with others are entirely new to me.

Somebody here or another thread said cowards/bullies turn their back when thy've lost power. I've had plenty of people turn their backs on me in the last few years..

Keep posting folks x

goingforgoal I can only imagine how hard it must be caring for all your son's needs alone - it must be very challenging, but it sounds as if your son is truly very lucky to have you.12 months of therapy must have been hard too. I hope 2012 is the year that things turn aorund for you and that you find the strength you need to move forward, and that you get to make loads of fab memories with your Son and any one else lovely that comes into your life.

I have felt rubbish today
It's odd cause I havent really thought much about all this stuff for a loooong time, and I thought it was all behind me (just like that - LOL) but since I have finally begun facing how much stuff I have to face up to, and how much work I need to do to begin to recover, and to accept just how damaged I have been by it all I feel even more rubbish than usual!
I am hoping this is maybe a good sign. I don't "do" feelings very easily - I certainly am not very good at feeling sad/upset(obviously as that was NOT allowed when I was little - any time I was remotely upset I was of course just being " a drama queen" or "an over sensitive little bitch")so I think this will definitely take some time.....
am still considering finding a counsellor....I know I need to really....

back at work tomorrow and dd's 2,3 and 4 back at school so need to try and get some sleep tonight (unlike last night!) so now going to go and do something else for a bit to take my mind off it (MUST also stop eating so much chocolate thinking it will make me feel better - IT DOESNT!!)

have also bought a notebook - want to start writing "stuff" but not totally sure what , or where to start, and then panic that someone will find it and read it...so cant seem to write anything!

Hi Rasp

thank you, :) such a lovely thing to write, makes me feel good.

Write your stuff here?

I do :)

I also take comfort of discovering other's whom are estranged from their parent's be it in reality, internet, books, movies.
My post is prompted by Mamma Mia, (which is at time of writing) is on ITV1. There is a scene in which Meryl Streep tells her, (about to be wed), DD of her estrangement with her Mother. It is rather moving scene and reason why I'm watching to see it again :) or :( however you see my need.

Sharon Osbourne (LOVE HER), writes about her very difficult relationship with her Mother and how She didn't attend her funeral etc in her autobiography. the last few sentences she wrote about her Mother stuck with me since i read, (when book was published).

Helps me to feel less alone and that it isn't all my fault as i constantly still feel my estrangement is.

I get to a place where I feel OK about myself but then slowly feel the need to write. I have realisations, thoughts, flashbacks i know i need to record and the self sabotage prevents. I'm starting to slowly believe i am safe here on Stately Homes, i won't be scalded, banned etc..

Thank God or whoever for this place

WOOOOOYIPPPPEEEEE :)

If I'm having a bad day or brooding over something, I often write a letter to the person in question explaining why it was bad and what I felt that they should have done instead, then just shove it away with all the other random scribblings I have.

Firstly I'm sorry. My second/first proper post and it's all about me. I have been writing this for a couple of months. I'm so sorry it is so long but I don't know how else to introduce it/me. I'm so sorry if this is all messed up! I just needed to get it out there and wonder if I am starting on the right track at all!

My Mother wants me to fail - this is what I conclude.

Today a call to my mobile at half past five - unheard of and another on the landline around eight. I ignore both. I am holding a pair of aces heads up with myself at the moment. I don't know whether to contact her or to call it a day - honestly.

I've have had a turbulous relationship with my Mother since being born. Unwanted; referred to many times in my life as '(her) being offered an abortion on a plate' by staff when fell PG with me. I was the reason my parents got together a real cause of annoyance, irritation and basically messing up their lives. And all the negativity that follows is connected to me. It was 'my' fault. I guess this gives me this 'woeful' feeling that I should be glad to be alive and that she did me some great honour or favour.

She displayed hurtful behaviour, physical; slaps; pulled by hair aggressively around lounge, right through until I was 17 leaving her with clumps of my hair in her hands as I pulled away and that ended all physical. She will tell you that she hit me with a hairbrush - that is her version of events. Hurtful mindgames; pretended she was dead (dropped to the ground and shook) for must have been around 4 minutes (terrifying) when I was 5, threatened me living with Grandmother who she hated (and I loved but loved her more - insane!). Sitting on a window midway on the stairs when I was 5 looking out wanting to jump - to die. That's just too weird? A small girl wanting to end it all? I can't believe I'm writing this - it's just so sad. Making me walk ahead of her along the street sobbing my heart out. Running to get her tissues when she was upset. Telling her she was fine. She teased my looks. Big teeth like a horse. Brown lumps for moles (I have one on my left cheek by my ear which I am well aware of). Skinny. Bitch. Lazy bitch, useless, stupid, sneaky.

I decided to have my hair short when I was 11 until about 15 - just about to start high school. We moved to another City and it was my Mother at her worst point. Just to top it off I was starting to become a hormonal teenager but kept a child - delayed development and have always controlled what I eat and when (not a disorder but intake if that makes sense). I started high school - it was horrendous. My Mother in the worst state of unhappiness ever, me getting this at home then turning up at a new school in a different City with vile short hair and stupid shoes :) so ultimate bully material. I looked at a picture the other day and wondered why I had it short all that time until about 16 - but now I remember why. And when I have been in a bad place - my hair is the first thing to go! I cut it. Sometimes she would write to me and leave the letter on my pillow. These would say cruel things and also talk about how awful the situation was and why I had angered her. I still have a couple in the attic.

I have a younger sibling - 8 years between us. My Dad had a few affairs as I was growing up and finally left my Mum for his now wife When my DB turned 16. They are very happy. But Dad was very blinkered to the goings on keen on working and getting promoted. My Parents had got back together Dad left the OW he had moved in with and my DB was born. DB saw some of the things my M did to me - very rarely. From what I remember he once saw her stamp full force on my chest and ran off screaming. She ran after him!

Through my 20's (moved out at 20) she carried on penning letters. Some funny. Some cruel. My 20's and early 30's I drank through. I realise I burried lots of this through my drinking and was a rubbish drunk. V addictive personality and never know when to stop in all honesty.

Her rage is unbearable - still happens. That or tanrumming. Varrying personalities. I don't have any memories as such. For the most I've pretty much blocked everything out and have very few memories mainly triggered by photographs. I know these snippits of abuse are just nothing in comparison some! But for me - I believe a grown woman should know better - no matter on her childhood. I watched Mike Leigh's 'Another Year' and the Mary character reminded me so much of her.

I vowed to DP that I was going to cut her out of our lives in June.
Many times I have but don't have the strength - the guilt is unbearable - she has no one really. My DD was born and M came to stay on day 8 for 5 days. To help. She outdid my DS's (1.5 at the time) tantrum 110% the first night on arrival and threatened to leave. Totally unacceptable behaviour and I should have thrown her out. Over the week inappropriate comments, sarcasm, drinking a few beers every night. Got up at 9 I had been up for 3 hours with DS and NB DD! So no help there. The final day 5, I dragged her to a toddler group in the morning, she can't be trusted in my home on her own - goes through EVERYTHING and steals trinkets/trophies. She was in a filthy mood - didn't want to go at all and walked 3 steps behind me. We had coffee in an oldy worldy Italian coffee bar and sat in the window. She passed comment about a man 'watch out that man's coming back to check out your boob!' when BF my newborn baby - only my second attempt out. I fed DS for 15m but you still get nervous again. It triggered a row where she said "You and you're HUSBAND and your DS and your perfect little existance.." We're not married btw. Decided against row-ing. I put DD in buggy and I scooped up DS and paced home. She walked 10 steps behind me. I said nothing. Let her get her stuff and leave.

We didn't speak for a month until we had to meet each other at a wedding so had to talk. I managed to rework 'us' and get back to a level of communication that I am happy with. Where she does not really know much so cannot use it as fuel to turn it against me. She is very generous but sometimes it feels like she is buying you?

She fell out with a new friend before Christmas and it really damaged her - opened up scars that have not been surfaced for a long, long time. I knew there was going to be a knock on effect as she telephoned me to tell me about it - rarely do you get the truth. You get her version. She instantly changes the events leading up to and occuring. It is amazing really - very smart. My DB was coming home from overseas for Christmas - a very short flying visit. I wanted to prewarn him about this argument so that he didn't take the bait. But she did something that really upset him and they had a huge row. HUGE. I wasn't told much (again) but knew there would be another knock on effect. He said "No wonder my Father left her" and "She completely messed TheEnchantedHood up". Great.

My Mum and DB arrived on Boxing Day and we were very warm and welcoming I hope. Mum left and then my DB was picked up by my DF who lives 20mins away.

The next day I get a phonecall an hour before my DB is due back to visit my DC again. My Mum in floods, hopeless, weak and feeble. She's sorry for everything. The Friend and my DB are right. She is a terrible person. For an hour I try to rebuild her. Very rarely do I allow myself to let her put me in this vulnerable position. I make the mistake of saying she has time on her hands to think.. Anyway - I have to go as my DB is at the front door. She asks me "What did she ever do that hurt my DB so much?". So I interpret - it wasn't to apologise to me. It was to find out how she had messed up my DB. I said that I would phone her that evening - but I don't have the energy and DC are up/down during the evening - I can't bear the intensity as I am going through some stuff of my own right now..

When my DB went back - she put him up in a hotel that night depriving him of an extra night with my Dad or me even! Dad rushed him down there and he waited in all afternoon for her to come home from work then took him to a hotel :( for him to get himself to the airport and flight at 7am. It was sad that she got to us/punished us all through that.

My Mum at Christmas defies me and this is why it is so raw. I have a very tiny house. I ask her not to buy large amounts of presents for us and the children as she has in the past but she turns up with bag after bag every year. This year it was "Oh I have got hardly anything at all THIS year". This sounds very generous but in fact infiltrates my home like an infection. It's all bits of stuff we really don't need. I sound so ungrateful. But everywhere I turn - there is something that reminds me of her and the guilt manifests until nearing the end of the next year I have managed to charity most of the stuff. It is her way of ignoring a simple thing I have asked and breaking rules which she is persistant at doing - this is how I see this. For example a heavy Cake stand; an electric peeler (!); an electric pessel and mortar. Don't get me wrong some of these things have proved useful in the past - but normally 2/20 things. I sound like an 'ungrateful bitch' but I find the generosity controlling. I ask for one present for each of us but this is thrown out of the window. I hope this makes sense. It is the only thing she can 'control'.

So I am nearing my close honestly.

My DB went back overseas and they spoke on Skype so it's all fine now. But as I didn't call her that night when I said I would she started to ignore my calls. I tried and tried. I sent her a Facebook message asking if she had received me message. She replied that she had been really busy and stuff but also invited us on holiday with her again. To stay in a chalet overseas. I ignored the message for a couple of days and she sent me a shitty message saying "I take it from the silence you don't want to go overseas?" I had been trying to find time to reply and she sent that message literally as I was going to so of course it looked like I was replying on demand. I tried to keep it plesant saying we would not be going. I missed wishing her Happy NY - v tired. She's never ever text me on NYE. In fact I have been so worried about her trying to get hold of her for days thinking the worst. I got another shitty message saying her and my Aunt had been saying about me and Aunts son that they know we have young children but it would be nice to have a call. I think my cousin was simarlarly abused tbh. So she was slagging me off to my Aunt! So this is the pattern. Also that she was very very busy seeing this friend for a drink, this friend for this and that (not time on her hands to think AT ALL!) I have NOT rowed with her but I am now once again subject to her fury.

I am totally fed up of it all. I did not once row with her or tell her any home truths as my DB did but I get the resentment and bitterness. It's just so hard. I really don't know how to spark up a conversation with her right now as I could have done without her apologising for my past that Sunday afternoon..

I'm so so sorry this is so long!

I have been lurking on here for months. Drafted posts many times but always deleted them.

It's not my family as such (although I didn't get the best upbringing at least I have a civil relationship with my mum). It's DH's. Memories of his childhood are surfacing and they're not nice ones. Emotional abuse and some witnessed violence by his father.

We've had the most awful time with the inlaws when we stayed with them at Christmas. My FIL was VERY rough with my six year old and shouted at my children continually. We told them it wasn't on and that we needed to change how we see them (short periods, in public places as this behaviour is worse if he isn't in a public place).

Now we've had a letter from MIL demanding that we apologise to them for not asking after the FIL who had a (very) minor illness after we had stayed with them. According to her what our dc experienced (being yanked up by one arm, screamed at very close to the face and dumped hard on the floor) has "been blown out of all proportion" by us and it is "hysterical" to refer to it as violence, we'd apparently "have done the same thing" and it was all our fault anyway because we had visited them in the first place and "visitors are always stressful for us". Our other DC is a child who over thinks everything and is now having nightmares and doesn't ever want to see the GCs again.

I cannot get her to see that if FIL had done this anywhere else it would probably have been referred to the police. I'm not imagining this am I? Surely treating a child like that is not on and it's plain to see?

Thank you for letting me vent.

Helen,

How does your DH feel about his parents these days and particularly after this last visit there?. Whose idea was it to visit them?.

You would not tolerate this from a friend and family are truly no different in this regard.

I would also be having a word with the police about your FIL but that may be a step too far for you to consider currently. I would not be meeting these people under any circumstances given what they have done.

I would take no notice of this poisonous communication you have received from his toxic parents and I would not want such toxic people in my life anyway; they bring nothing positive to it and your child is afraid of them. I would put your own family above them and waht they want which is for you to apologise. They have done what toxic people usually do in such circs; i.e absolve themselves of all responsibility and not apologise for their actions. Ignore future communications of any sort from them.

DH feels an obligation to see them - a duty to "look after" his parents. He is probably aspergers and is very highly motivated by doing the right thing and being loyal. However he is also stunned and shocked at what we witnessed and experienced and is desperate to protect our DCs.

We only ever visit them out of guilt. It's certainly not fun. DH has siblings that we really like but I think they see DH has being like his father so those relationships are also difficult - a huge sadness for us. FIL is definitely ASD.

They are definitely absolving themselves of any responsibility. My MIL admitted that she had not discussed her letter with FIL. I think she is trying to make everything "right" again because he will probably explode at her. DH has witnessed his father being violent to his mother before. She'd never leave him - "not the done thing", "marriage is for life" etc.

I'm conflicted because I know that by standing our ground and refusing to "put it all behind us if [we] simply apologise" we are making things worse for her. In protecting my own family I am making someone else suffer.

Enchanted your story is so sad. My advice would be to cut contact. If you can't then build walls and boundaries that work for you. Do not go on holiday with her. You're getting hurt repeatedly and it's exhausting. It's time it stopped. Good luck x

Helen

Many adults who were victims of such toxic parenting when children do suffer FOG as adults - fear, obligation, guilt. Even though these children now adults are put through much suffering, many still go back for more in the forlorn hope that things will eventually change for the better re them and they realise what they have done. It does not happen with toxic parents; they do not play by the "normal" rules governing normal familial relations. Its their way or no way.

Unless your DH has been properly assessed you cannot assume Aspergers; he may well instead be totally traumatised by his dysfunctional upbringing. A lifetime's conditioning is very hard to undo; his motivation to do right may come from his fear and obligation towards his parents.

Re FIL he may, or equally may not, be on the ASD spectrum. He is more likely than not to have some form of personality disorder instead to my mind. ASD in itself does not make any one person act abusively like your FIL has, he knows what he is doing. You cannot assume he is on that spectrum and from the little you have written re him I would assume he is abusive anyway because he is a tyrant within his home and he acts like this because he can. Even if he is on the spectrum somewhere that is still no excuse for his actions towards you as a family. I'd be trying to find out what MIL and FILs childhoods were like - one or both of them may have come from a background in which abuse featured. Their own families made them this way.

Your MIL has made a choice to stay with her H, you won't make things any worse for her if you as a family decide to cut them out of your lives. She has decided to martyr herself to this selfish abuser. You are not responsible for her happiness.

If you truly want to protect your family unit stay well away from these two. Don't visit them out of guilt; your children don't want to see them any more and I can see why they say that. Listen to them; you don't need another generation affected by their dysfunctional behaviours.

Attila - DH has other Aspergers traits - very methodical, highly logical, mathematical, uncomfortable in social situations, unable to read non-verbal cues. He has looked into getting professionally assessed but feared it becoming well known. He has recently met a guy in a similar job who was very open about his ASD so he is thinking again about it.

FIL does have a very odd background. Reading between the lines his mother seems to have had a personality disorder and was probably an alcoholic. MIL's background seems more normal.

You are, of course, right about it being my MIL's choice to martyr herself to an abuser. I need to remind myself of this.

You are also right about needing to stop this affecting another generation.