I'm so upset- fucking git.

[NearlySpring]

Actually he's not, he's sweet and lovely but I think I needed to get that out my system. He's upset me so much.

You may have read my last thread, basically very old friend back on scene, met up once and ended up kissing and having lovely time but he said afterwards "not comfortable going down that road as you're not long out of a relationship" we have text back and forth every day since and he asked me to meet him again. I have been unsure if he likes me as more than a friend and asked here that very question. Most of you said it sounds like he's interested in me so Ive felt confident about meeting him last night. I asked if he wanted dinner and drinks and a movie at mine and gave him the option to go out for meal and drink instead but he said he'd like to come to mine.

So he came over last night. We had wine in the garden and lots of chatting and laughing. We had dinner then moved onto my little sofa for a film. We had candles on and it was all lovely. He's a real gent and very shy and I decided to wait for him to make a move first so I knew how he was thinking in terms of us being any more than friends. He put his arm around me and pulled me close to rest my head on his shoulder (sorry it's all a bit soppy). We were sober, had only shared a bottle of wine over a few hours so it wasn't a drunken move. We sat like this for an hour or so and he was stroking my arm and hand the whole time. Then for the second half of the film
he half laid down and I cuddled up next to him and we were messing around tickling each other and generally being flirty.

(if you made it this far without vomitting then thank you..)

So we both sat up at the end of the film and had a "moment" he smiled a cheesy smile and our faces were real close. We had a peck and then I put my hand on his shoulder and went for a snog and he pulled away. :( I was shocked as he'd been instigating the touchy-feely ness the whole night. He said to me he really likes me but doesnt feel that way about me and he would feel uncomfortable kissing and giving me the wrong impression as he doesn't feel we could have a relationship that would work. Well I wanted to cry, and just couldn't understand as his words and actions suggest the total opposite. I had been very sure to make sure it was him not me that was making the moves.

I decided not to let it spoil the evening and we sat in the dark chatting after the film finished. He turned the tv off and I asked why and he said he thought it's nice just to sit in the dark and quiet and chat together. He pulled me close for a cuddle then we had a little mess around tickling and acting like silly teenagers. We starting drinking more and got quite tipsy. So by the end of the evening we sat giggling with him laying on the sofa on his back and me sat "over him" Our hands up each others tops stroking arms and backs and being sensual but not necessarily sexual. This went on for well over two hours! But still no kissing. Sorry if tmi but I did t notice he had an erection quite a bit so I guess it's not because he doesnt find me attractive that he's behaving this way.

Then it was time for him to go and we had a cuddle and said goodbye. He text as soon as he was home and said that he had a lovely evening.

I'm so confused. He's not the sort of guy that is just after sex, he made no sexual advance toward me me just lovely touching and stroking etc. Of course last time we met we kissed lots and this time apart from him telling me he didn't see us being able to have a realtionship all his words and actions suggest otherwise. I really cannot think of a reason for these "mixed signals" and it's really quite upsetting. I'm totally smitten with this guy and we've loosely made arrangements to meet again in about 10 days time when he gets back from his business trip. We have so much in common
and before we lost touch before we had a few dates and always had quite a connection.

I saw him this morning at a group that we're both members of and he was his usual sweet self. He text me before we got there and said "I'm up and will be there but Im very tired" I replied "Im not to blame, you chose to stay up late! :)" and he said "don't tell tales, it was your fault! :)"

I need to step away and forget about him don't I? :(

Poor you. I'd have as little as possible to do with him now if you can.

I knew/know someone quite like him and there are two words that sum them both up, selfish tosser

I don't think he's insane. Enjoying the ego kick yes, but not insane. NearlySpring he has been very clear to you that he doesn't want a relationship, it doesn't honestly matter what his reasons are - gay, religion, commitment-phobe, whatever. He is entitled to those reasons and of course he should not send mixed messages with his physical behaviour but you can't say he hasn't told you that there is no future in it.

I really feel it would be wise to avoid being alone with him again as sadly this cycle may repeat.

NearlySpring Sorry to hear that things didn't turn out the way you had hoped. I would definitely echo the already excellent advice given and make sure this guy gets a wide berth from now on.

But there is no reason for you to feel silly, you have tried to make an adult connection with another person and it's not your fault that he wasn't worthy of your affections. I honestly despair of (some) men today's actions and behaviours. I sympathise with your feelings of being let down and that you aren't 'good enough' (bollocks of course, you are good enough for any man out there). I've just had the man I like (who I thought liked me) 'like' EVERYBODIES comments wishing him a happy birthday on FB except mine. Sometimes there is honestly no point in even trying to work out how these men's minds work. You assume that because you are a decent person who treats people well that others will do the same. For some reason though it doesn't seem to work like that.

I recommend alcohol, ice cream and lengthy bitching to friends to help things feel a bit better. That awful 'kicked in the stomach feeling' is horrific. I really hope you feel better soon.

Well it's really hard to walk away because you'd be losing someone you thought was a good friend and that hurts.

Also it's that teeny, tiny chance that one day he might say, you know what, I've been a fool, I'm really sorry I behaved like such an immature twat but I was afraid of the strength of my feelings for you, and actually I really do love you and let's have sex properly right now.

It's unlikely though. I know how you are feeling.
Mine still texts me, wants to meet up and tell me all his news and counsel me about my unresolved feelings for him

I feel like saying no you fucking don't. But it's complicated as our families are joined at the hip so I can't actually walk away that easily.

Which means he thinks he's got away with it and I'm still his friend.

I love our life together and don't want to lose the other stuff we do but I know it's going to sting like hell when he meets the next one.

It's like a trap isn't it. Good luck OP.

Thank you all. Woke up feeling like crap today. We were chatting til late last night and I still feel like he isn't telling me everything. I explained it would have been much easier if he would just tell me he didn't fancy me but he just ignores me whenever I say that. He said "I didn't expect things to go the way they did last night" eh? Expect? Well they did and you bloody instigated it you damn fool! He keeps saying how much he likes me and wants to be close friends etc but how he doesn't feel a realtionship is "possible". If I were him I would just give a reason, but he won't. He will not say he doesn't fancy me and it's driving me nuts! Plus all his actions suggest he does fancy me. Even every text he send me ends with xxxx and he texts each night to say night night sweet dreams.

I'm supposed to be getting ready for work but this has just totally emotionally drained me :(

It does, I know. The days I have spent struggling to get my head round such confusing signals...time wasted probably.

I think they are afraid of something, afraid of being to blame, maybe? Afraid that you will have expectations of them if they make a commitment however vague.

I just don't know. It makes no sense. It's like they enjoy torturing themselves and you. I've never understood unnecessary self denial or any sort of teasing though.

There's certain people who say men just need sex, and can do it without really liking the person, but then he clearly DOES like you and fancy you.

I tried to translate it in terms of a guy I like but don't fancy...so I can't sleep with him...but then I wouldn't encourage him to touch me either.

If you like someone and fancy them too then what is stopping that becoming a relationship? Weird.

The only way I can explain it is that they want you to give them lots of attention and affection but then get a huge kick out of proving how strong they are in resisting sleeping with you.

Like sex is an admission of failure/weakness or something. Mine talked about it in terms of temptation and weakness.

I did read somewhere that for us, sex is an outlet and makes us feel like we have achieved something, but for men it actually diminishes their power, makes them feel weak afterwards, and they need to rebuild their reserves again.

So clinging on to the sense of excitement and anticipation might be a way some men feel strong? They must be very pent up though.

The best way to stop the emotional drainage is to stop having these pointless conversations, and pointless heavy-petting (ahem) sessions with him.

he isn't going to give you an answer, he is going to keep you hanging and wondering to stroke his own ego (some religious people I have known have fucking massive egos) or as a diversion to obfuscate the fact he is confused about his sexuality

This is where you will remain if you choose to keep up the contact - completely stuck. He is totally detached from you emotionally and is lapping up the attention you're giving him.

That is why you feel shit this morning - because he has taken your affection and your time and given you a big fat nothing in return.
It is emotional vampirism masquerading as friendship - he appears to be there, and listening, but this is no happy, equal exchange of ideas and emotions, he is just a dangerous leech. That nasty feeling in your gut? That churning emptiness? That's how it feels when someone like that gets free range to rummage around in your psyche. They abuse your trust and ignore your boundaries.
Build some Walls OP, and fast, before this wretch does some serious damage.

You're right, and I would give similar advice to anyone else, but it's so much harder when it's you it's happening to and not looking in from the outside.

I won't be able to avoid him as coincidence has meant that this common interest we have means we will be regularly seeing each other in various groups at least once or twice a week. However, I can avoid him in more casual settings and avoid being down the pub with him etc.

I think I find it harder as this is not me. I'm not this weak pathetic woman who jumps when a man says jump. I'm usually quite forward and strong but he does something to me that makes me feel quite soppy and weak. Also- I think when we were younger it was always me with the "power" so to speak. He would chase after me and constantly call me etc. He wasn't all that popular and a bit of a geek and so I think I always felt a bit too good for him. Well now Ive grown up and I like geeks :) and realised he comes from a very well to do family, very wealthy, privately educated etc and perhaps I do feel a little below him :(

He's definitely not after sex. That would be so much easier to understand, Ive met plenty of men like that. I know his faith means that casual sex is not an option for him, he just wouldn't have sex outside a retionship. Therefore we wouldn't have sex because he doesn't feel we could ever have that relationship.

Argh. That's all I can say. Just want to get back I'm bed and bury my head in the duvet and stay there all day feing sorry for myself. However, life goes on and I have an important meeting at work at 11am so currently on the long train journey trying not to be consumed by this whole mess and trying not to dwell on it all.

I need a good slap and a Vodka and coke, possibly some random meaningless sex with the ticket inspector (kidding if course).

Look I used to behave like this with boys when I was at school. If I knew someone liked me but I didn't really fancy them, I would snuggle up, maybe hold hands, flirt and avoid being put on the spot or answering questions. I didn't want a physical relationship but the little physical contact there was was worth it in terms of a huge ego boost.

It wasn't nice behaviour as a kid and much less so as an adult.

Firstly - you are not below him. No one is better than anyone else in regard to money, education etc. You however do have the moral highground.

Secondly - if he is gay I feel sorry for him having these struggles but his behaviour has been unacceptable. If he isn't gay then he is being nasty. Very nasty. He is telling you that he can't have a relationship with you. Not that he can't have a relationship. The intimation is that it is your fault matters cannot progress, which is clearly bollocks.

And also don't be misled by the fact he is religious. That, for me, means he should be more in empathetic and concerned with your feelings. I don't Jesus ever mentioned anything about satisfying yourself at the expense of others.

thatsnotmybabybelly I did say to him last night "anyway, Ive always said you were gay" half joking half serious and he said back "why do people always think Im gay just because I fancy men" he laughed as he said it but as the old saying goes many a true word is said in jest.

AnyFucker is right, the power to stop feeling this way lies in your hands. Just stop engaging with him. I know it's hard but you need to stop falling back on that excuse -- sorry for the tough love, but you are a grown woman with a child and you can do this. He is just a man, and not a very nice one, and definitely not better than you in any way.

I think you are fixated on the WHY and wanting answers but as I predicted you are not going to get any. You need to try to stop this fixation as soon as possible and that's not going to happen if you keep engaging with him.

Poor guy for getting such a slating.

He is probably also confused and unsure what to do. No-one has a responsibility for someone else's emotions. He has not lied, cheated or broken any promises. What he has done is flirted and then pulled back. I don't think any woman who was unsure of what level she wanted to go to in an emotional or physical relationship, so gave mixed messages, would get such a hard time of it. He clearly has religious issues and maybe also issues about his sexuality.

The reality is that, as an adult, you have to deal with the relationship or lack of it as best you can.

I would just tell him that, if he cannot have a relationship with you, you have to either not see one another at all (or as little as possible) or go back to being just friends, with no physical or phone contact beyond that appropriate to a friendship. And stick to it! If he wants more than that, he will then have to pluck up his courage and state what he wants before anything happens of a physical nature.

Poor guy? He is FINE! It's the OP who feels like shit.

What does that tell you?

" Also- I think when we were younger it was always me with the "power" so to speak. He would chase after me and constantly call me etc"

This part of your post just leapt out at me, is it possible that this rejection of you is tied up in some way with your rejection of him?

Whatever, not that it matters. There was a No-Contact thread floating around here for a while - I think it might have moved to OTBT, might be worth hooking up with those gals?

And then just stop. I know it's hard, but delete his number from your phone (even if you re-instate it in a week) for now.

Larry, I agree with your advice, but not the 'poor guy' sentiment.

He obviously knows he is causing the OP some consternation with his behaviour but is continuing with the mixed messages (I don't want to be with you, kiss kiss kiss!)

He is getting a slating (from me anyway) because he seems not to care that his behaviour is upsetting and confusing, I think a genuinely nice guy would control himself better and not subject someone else to whatever mess is in his head.

Shirley I think he's enjoying every minute of turning the tables. He's on a massive power trip.

He's found a way to manipulate women into giving him what he needs and he's using it to get his own back.

OP, he's punishing you I think

He has admitted to fancying men.
He WONT admit to fancying you
Where do you think this is going?
Your life, your heart, your decisions, your body, belong to YOU. Dont let some loser trample all over them for the sake of talking shit over a phone line for an hour or two.
You are allowing yourself to be impressed by his background. But a man who behaves like this is nothing special.

An equal relationship, be it friends or lovers, is one in which you feel secure in sharing parts of yourself with others, before and after. It's an exchange which is healthy and leaves both parties feeling good about themselves and happy about the relationship. Most of all it feels safe

This man leaves you feeling unbalanced, unsafe, and just plain bad. The very essence of a toxic relationship. You know you are going to get very badly hurt here.

Oh and he isn't confused. Not at all. He knows exactly what he is doing.

Oh yeah Gloria. He sounds twisted to me - I found it telling that after OP had texted saying "You have hurt and confused me" he responds with "blah blah I don't want a relationship" Wasn't that a strange way to react to NearlySpring's well thought out and emotional text?

Logically, if a friend said that stuff to me, and I was genuinely sorry that I'd hurt them, I certainly wouldn't put the boot in AGAIN by ignoring all the stuff about the weird and inappropriate flirting, and getting straight back onto "I do not want a relationship with you"

Yeah mate, I think she got that when you told her that to her face before feeling her up and giving her eskimo kisses! WTAF?

Bad news.

Well there's not a lot I can do about the way I behaved back then. I was 17 and foolish and although I was never directly horrible to him we did both know that it was always him that would chase me, even though we had been firm friends first. I can't actually remember why we stopped seeing each other, I had always thought that we had just moved part and grown apart. But he mentioned the other night that we'd had an argument but I have no idea what it was about :(

Forget it. It doesn't matter why he's behaving like this, it's just enough that he is. He is not being "nice" and "sweet" to you, he's making you feel like shit.

Shut the door. Delete the number. Keep Busy. Detach.

Oh, so now he's adding guilt to the mix. Yours, not his, natch.
Is there ANYTHING positive about your interactions with him?
Because so far we have:

Manipulation (his actions reel you in, his words reject you)
Contradiction (between actions and words. "I dont want a relationship. Let's meet up soon))
Deflection (he wont give you a straight answer)
Selfishness (takes your time and affection and gives nothing back)
Coldness (You tell him clearly that he has upset you. He is unmoved)
Drip feeding of information (He fancies men, you argued but he wont tell you what about)
And the latest: Guilt tripping.

Get him and his ridiculous game playing out of your head space

Who cares what happens when you were 17 ?

Seriously, get a grip, you will feel much better for it