I am being deliberatly vague sorry.

[PrisonerZero]

Say, for example a person was in a bad relationship, a non violent (as yet) but highly critical, verbally abusive, mentally abusive, controlling relationship where the male partner drinks to excess and the female partner dreads the afternoon as it gets closer and closer to the time he will be home. As well as having her own older DC she also has a small baby, her current partner is this childs father and on the birth certificate.

The female realises she needs to end the relationship but is scared to do so - mainly because he has told her repeatidly that he would take the baby away (baby is less than 3 months old and breastfed). She believes that he would 100% take the baby. He would take him from her arms even, or the second she turned her back. He would take him from his bed in the middle of the night, or from the pram when out walking. If he was locked out he would find a way to get in. He is on the babys birth certificate and has parental responsibility. He wouldn't hurt the baby.

What could the female do to pre-emptivily stop this happening? How could she be sure that she wouldn't lose her child? Is there any way of getting anything down on paper saying that he can't take the child away without him knowing that she has done it?

How very, very difficult for the person who is feeling and experiencing this. I hope she has someone in RL that she can confide in.
If she doesn't feel able to she could speak to someone in Woman's Aid who could give lots of advice and support.

Non physically but verbally, emotionally abusive relationships are still very very frightening and damaging the bruises are there but on the inside.

An abusive partner can be very persuasive and able to make our more rational thought processes redundant. They can replace reality with the place that they wish you to inhabit.
It's very important that the person in this relationship speaks to someone who can help her balance out the reality that he has been putting in her head
Once she confides in someone they can help her sort through all of these problems.

Women are rarely parted from their children. Very, very rarely.

I think the person should a)talk to Women's Aid and b) get a free half hour's worth of advice from a solicitor.

And keep records of the abuse and the excessive drinking. As much as possible to back up the person's case should there be a custody battle. And then move far far away. Somewhere it wouldn't occur to him to look.

IF (and it is a MASSIVE if) the man did take the baby, the woman can call the police as the baby would be at danger of harm due to being removed from their food source.

If it is too scary to go to Womens Aid or a solicitor, the lady can go to her nearest SureStart Centre and the family support workers will be experienced in helping her get the help - they can build a trusting relationship with her and go with her to the appointments, so that she has someone she trusts and who can take notes / relay information at a later date because her head will be swimming... they can book appointments and all sorts.

If they say they have to call social services, that is because the lady needs a team around her family to support her. It is not a bad thing, it does NOT mean they will take the children away and it does not mean she is a bad parent. It means she needs some help from professionals to keep her family in a more safe and secure environment and they can help her do it.

Good advice from Lewis

What a horrid situation

If I were that lady,Id be talking to a close friend Id be keeping clothes nappies and as much money as I could put away with said friend-Id visit my Gp and tell him what I believed to be happening,Id keep details of everything ,everyday.

I would do everything everyone else has suggested and Id be working on getting me and my dc out of that house.

OP if its you please stay safe x

Thank you.

I think moving away would be very difficult as her older DC have equal time split betwen her and their father who also lives locally, she also doesn't drive and would have problems getting them to school - It would be akward and complicated to change school as the eldest DC has some special needs and is in the system at his current school, plus their father might not be agreeable (understandable) although moving within the area all ready being lived in is a possibility. Would take some major saving up though.

She has no close family or friends. Her friends are his cousins, friends and relatives. These are the people she spends most of her time with. Although she is not banned from seeing her own family and friends, it is very uncomfortable for her to do so due to his questioning, sulking, etc. He would never accompiany her to her relatives houses. It would also be difficult for her to connect with people via FB as this is banned.

From reading this thread she has now googled local soliciters and although didn't get through will try again, can't leave a message incase they call back. Also written down the number of womans aid, and intends to call at a safe time.

The male in the relationship is popular and well liked. It would be a huge shock to people and the female would be very unpopular when people found out.

She can't begin to imagin a life where she could do as she pleased, have her home as she pleased, talk to who she wanted, go where she wanted, go on FB, not have to delete history. It would be brilliant. But so far out of reach. When she finally plucks up the courage to go through with asking him to leave it will be horrific. She is already not allowed to do so much with the baby - take him certain places, talk to him in a certain way etc, he would be so much worse. He would take him and not bring him back and there is nothing she could do about it. It kills her to think of being apart from her baby. Even just writing this is scary shit for her. It all looks so normal on the outside - she feels like she lying even though she knows its true.

And of course as the time passes she realises she has to delete history and do the housework before he comes home. Thank you.

Zero, if you come back to the thread, please - when you get a safe time, look here Making a Safety Plan

Please do not leave without one - do not ask him to leave without one.

and remember, 999 is a 24 hour, 7 day a week service.

zero,please pm me if you need a 'friend' x

If there is abuse in a relationship you can all the police - explain the situ & they will come round and be in the room while the person tells the man to leave. Then the situation is on the police's radar and he cannot take the baby, get violent etc.

My mums friend is a police officer and offered to do this for me when I left my ex. As it was I left with my DD at 2am one night when he was out and refused to come home.

Do urge your friend to contact the police for help and advice.

zero - please return for support/handholding whenever you need it. There are lots of people here who have been through similar. You're not alone.

Hope you're OK.

I'm not sure your friend should tell him she intends to leave. It could put her at an increased risk of physical violence. I know there's been none yet but that's because she complies with his control. He does sound extremely controlling so his reaction to her 'rebellion' could be violent. She should definitely speak to Women's Aid.

I would move whilst he was out, I would plan it in advance, I would get new schools for the children.

Zero, you are not alone now.

You need never be alone again.

The fear is irrational, it was created by this bully to keep his victim under psychological lock and key. It' s not real and actually 99% of what he threatens he couldn't actually DO in reality.

You need to be a little bit braver, and need to call Women's Aid, start planning, packing and preparing yourself to flee. Go to a shelter, a safe place, full of support workers and others in the same situation as her.

I agree don't ever tell this monster the leaving plans that could jeopardise your safety and that of your children.

If the other DC children is reasonable and not an abuser, he'll understand if you have to move further away initially, but you can always move afterwards.

Your safety, your children's safety and getting you all away from this dreadful man is the only thing that matters.

You have support here too, happy to help in anyway I can.

Thank you for the link, the site has been looked at for well over an hour. A solicitors appointment has been made for Friday afternoon, it has been noted that no calls are to come through to her number etc, unfortunately they do not offer legal aid but this should be free as its a first short appointment hopefully. As there are children around a call to womens aid hasn't been made yet as its a scary thought to think anything could be repeated.

He is being unusually nice at the moment, in the guilty phase probably.

Thank you all for giving your advice.

I think every time it happens she will be edged closer and closer to what she thinks is physically impossible - one day she will find the strength to take actions - baby steps baby steps until one day a giant step will happen.

That Woman is stronger than she thinks and one day just when she feels so low that things cant get any better she will find the strength and courage and determination and realise that she and her children deserve more so much more and she will do what she needs to do.

one day he will be filled with regret at whats he's lost he will see a happy content woman - a woman who knows her value.

When that woman is ready and all the times in between there will always be lots of mumsnetters here for her x

For now, stay safe x

is this excuse for a man British ?

Yes he is British.

So today, baby steps have been taken for her. She confided in a friend only to be shocked at what she heard - this friend and others no longer come to her house - not because they dislike her, but because they hate him. They feel uncomfortable, they have to bite their tongues not to tell him he is an arse when he speaks to her in that way. To be fair she has always been secretly pleased that people stopped coming round, no panicing that she will get told off, that things will be left a mess, that they will still be there when he gets home. She has never been told she isn't allowed friends round, but its always been made clear that its not a good thing. He can't stand her friends.

Friend has also suggested post from the solicitor etc can be sent to her house, documents can be kept there. Friend is trustworthy and has never given her a reason to doubt this.

Such a scary scary thing to be doing. But there are dreams of eating what ever she wants, not having to hope that the dc don't mention they have had kfc or chips. Being able to have friends round, to do anything she wants, go where she wants. Never been told these things are not allowed but she knows they are banned. Not having to explain every little thing. Not having to worry about when he comes home from the pub, not having to hear how she has ruined her dc and how he will take his away. Being able to tell her baby she loves him without being accused of trying to manipulate the baby against him. Things that seem so far out of reach - even if she does this and it ends well, how can she ever feel normal again, how can she do the most simple things like going on facebook without having to delete the history! It seems the most natural thing in the world to delete it.

Solicitors tomorrow afternoon. Seems a strange thing for her to be doing. What if they don't believe her. MN doesn't believe her, she has tried to post about this under different names, changing details, scared of being found out. And now they think she is a liar or trouble maker, she can't change her name anymore, not been able to for over a year and this has taken so much to be posted in a 'normal' everyday name. Not that it matters as such.

This woman is AMAZING! baby steps? HARDLY!!!

MN does believe her - look at this thread; full of people believing her, supporting her, willing her to take each and every step...

Solicitors should believe her - if they don't, she will need to find the strength to find another one... there is truth in the story and it will be able to be stopped.... it will.

And one day, she will switch the computer off without deleting the history and THAT will become her "normal". It will just happen... one day. Soon, I think.

I meant baby steps as in the 'rolling stone' theory -as time passes she thinks shes doing little but each little step leads to a huge step and yes leaving the intenet history is a huge step.

Just coming on here and speaking to us was a MAMMOTH step....but baby steps yes is the way to go.

YES YES YES ........Zero youre on ya way girl!!!!
(read Lewis' reply before Zero's) ......Zero you so have the strength to do this - and what a fantastic friend you have.

Mn is a fab place just when you think you cant do something theres always some on here who will say 'ive been there,heres what to do etc etc' with any problem.

fingers crossed todays as successful x

Zero this is great news, I hope you continue to find all the strength you need

Good luck for the solicitors today :)

Well done

PrisonerZero, this woman is showing amazing strength and determination. She is taking action in spite of the tremours that shake her.

She is believed.

The story is unbelievably distressing for posters to read. That needs to be said, because I can only imagine how deeply distressing it is for the woman experiencing it.

Just think how amazing it would be, for that woman to look at her baby without any fear? To delight in their personality, and not worry about being remonstrated for the child's actions?

It wouldn't matter whether the OP was experiencing the abuse, or being a truly special friend, posting on their behalf. The answer is the same. You have put up with this for this long, you can do it for a bit longer while you get the support to be safe when you leave.

What a brave woman.

please remember should you take on a solicitor, they are employed by you to give you the best advice and act on your behalf in your best interests. You are in charge.

Fwiw I don't think the womans H has a cat in hells chance of being able to take the baby from her. Its all talk and hot air to keep her in her place.

After building up to seeing the soliciter today, they have phoned and cancelled the appointment as the case she was working on has over run and she will spend today in court. Not her fault, but they did leave a detailed message on the answerphone on her mobile, who they were, appointment times etc which they had been asked not to do - her phone is not private and everything has to be deleted from it, not the normal every day stuff though as that would look suspicious. People know though, not to text her anything that could get her into trouble. They have promised to not leave messages like that again.

Rebooked for Monday afternoon

I know there are women out there who are much worse off than this. And, I know there are woman that have been through much worse and come out the other side, which is amazing. I never understood it before, I always thought 'just leave' but its never that simple.

What if he did take the baby, he has every legal right too and i'm not sure he could be forced to return the baby without there being a court case. They could decide not to disrupt the baby and she would only get one day a week or something. What if he followed through on his other threats? He has been known to say he would do something or other with the gas boiler and we would all die in our sleep. He has told her tales of people that have crossed him and he has waited years to get his own back so that it wouldn't be connected to him. So many stories, about things that have happened. She has never seen any of it but knows he is capable. He doen't need to raise his hand to scare her. Sounds so bad written down, but doesn't always seem that bad really. Its easy to get used to being called a cunt, twat etc on a daily basis. If it was just her, she doesn't doubt that she would stay but its not her she has to think of.

In a stark contrast, her exH has just been round. What a difference, he is pleasant, polite, easy to be around. Not that she would ever go backwards, things happen for a reason and although they get on well and parent well together they are to different as a couple and it was to long ago. He is a good man though, would never swear at her, and it just shows her how men should be.